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Post by notawerewolf99 on Jan 4, 2020 19:39:36 GMT
It's interesting just how VERY different the televised and the novelization take are on The Doctor's moment of temptation. The televised version has Tom Baker pushing The Doctor's temptation through more comedic lens (because The Doctor's a good sort of chap, really and who wants all that power, anyway?) with director Michael Hayes clearly desperately trying to push his leading man towards the dramatic, while the novelization has it straight up that The Doctor is VERY tempted to impose his will over the universe, consequences be damned, the dark side of The Doctor's interference.
As a fan, what is your preferred take?
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 5, 2020 2:18:11 GMT
In this instance, I am always reminded of Sam refusing the One Ring in Lord Of the Rings. Sam is tempted but because of his nature (or class if you want to get political) he knows that he really only needs a small garden-sized patch of the world to call his own and is not tempted beyond using the ring to helps save Frodo. The Doctor knows that he is better use traveling and saving the day rather than running the place. I wasn’t really falling for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 2:28:34 GMT
In this instance, I am always reminded of Sam refusing the One Ring in Lord Of the Rings. Sam is tempted but because of his nature (or class if you want to get political) he knows that he really only needs a small garden-sized patch of the world to call his own and is not tempted beyond using the ring to helps save Frodo. The Doctor knows that he is better use traveling and saving the day rather than running the place. I wasn’t really falling for it. Yes, this is very much my reading too of what was on the page and what is narratively interesting given the build of the season and the potential for a sting in the tail at the end of a long arc. Yet in real world terms we know this was at the time where Tom was, well, not the easiest to direct. When he was very prone to often crossover from breaking the tension (good) to actually killing the drama (bad) - we'd see that at it's worst the next year in the likes of Horns Of Nimon. |
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Post by constonks on Jan 5, 2020 4:46:15 GMT
We've seen the Doctor genuinely tempted in similar situations (although he always comes around very quickly) - you could read Tom's jovial line reading as the Doctor playing up the humour to drown out the dark thoughts he's having...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 11:41:23 GMT
We've seen the Doctor genuinely tempted in similar situations (although he always comes around very quickly) - you could read Tom's jovial line reading as the Doctor playing up the humour to drown out the dark thoughts he's having... That was something pointed out to me: a continuing theme running through the Graham Williams era stories, despite their joviality, is the Doctor being offered dictatorial power. It happens on Pluto, Tara, Atrios, to name a few. The Vardan commander tells him that he's rather good at it. It's a lovely, subtle moment with Baker because the Doctor pauses briefly and says a very grudging: "Thank you," to keep up the pretence. Williams was apparently concerned about the freewheeling nature of the Doctor and his arguable lack of accountability (hence the White Guardian), so it's interesting to see that bleed through with Four thinking to himself: I could, you know... I really could.
But, likely he wouldn't. Precisely because the idea frightens him so. If you stuck the Fourth Doctor against something like the Keller Machine, I don't think you'd get a world in flames. You'd get him. Unhinged. I think he'd be his own worst fear. For all the guff the Time Lords give him about irresponsibility, there's no one who holds the Doctor to account more than the Doctor themselves. |
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,666
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 5, 2020 14:53:52 GMT
We've seen the Doctor genuinely tempted in similar situations (although he always comes around very quickly) - you could read Tom's jovial line reading as the Doctor playing up the humour to drown out the dark thoughts he's having... That was something pointed out to me: a continuing theme running through the Graham Williams era stories, despite their joviality, is the Doctor being offered dictatorial power. It happens on Pluto, Tara, Atrios, to name a few. The Vardan commander tells him that he's rather good at it. It's a lovely, subtle moment with Baker because the Doctor pauses briefly and says a very grudging: "Thank you," to keep up the pretence. Williams was apparently concerned about the freewheeling nature of the Doctor and his arguable lack of accountability (hence the White Guardian), so it's interesting to see that bleed through with Four thinking to himself: I could, you know... I really could.
But, likely he wouldn't. Precisely because the idea frightens him so. If you stuck the Fourth Doctor against something like the Keller Machine, I don't think you'd get a world in flames. You'd get him. Unhinged. I think he'd be his own worst fear. For all the guff the Time Lords give him about irresponsibility, there's no one who holds the Doctor to account more than the Doctor themselves. Face Of Evil is probably what keeps him thinking that it’s not a good idea for him to be in charge. But I agree: in The War Games, we get a bit of a mission statement from the Doctor but it’s not really until the Hinchcliffe/ Williams era that we start seeing the Doctor as a known badass, not just as a mysterious wanderer. I think Deadly Assassin, Underworld and Invasion Of Time are where he realises that he is great at what he does and that he shouldn’t have any further responsibility. Which is why it’s not really a surprise that it took as long as Water Of Mars to realise that “the laws of time belong to (him)” since he is the only one left with the power and the experience to look after them. And also why it doesn’t last long. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 6:00:26 GMT
That was something pointed out to me: a continuing theme running through the Graham Williams era stories, despite their joviality, is the Doctor being offered dictatorial power. It happens on Pluto, Tara, Atrios, to name a few. The Vardan commander tells him that he's rather good at it. It's a lovely, subtle moment with Baker because the Doctor pauses briefly and says a very grudging: "Thank you," to keep up the pretence. Williams was apparently concerned about the freewheeling nature of the Doctor and his arguable lack of accountability (hence the White Guardian), so it's interesting to see that bleed through with Four thinking to himself: I could, you know... I really could.
But, likely he wouldn't. Precisely because the idea frightens him so. If you stuck the Fourth Doctor against something like the Keller Machine, I don't think you'd get a world in flames. You'd get him. Unhinged. I think he'd be his own worst fear. For all the guff the Time Lords give him about irresponsibility, there's no one who holds the Doctor to account more than the Doctor themselves. Face Of Evil is probably what keeps him thinking that it’s not a good idea for him to be in charge. But I agree: in The War Games, we get a bit of a mission statement from the Doctor but it’s not really until the Hinchcliffe/ Williams era that we start seeing the Doctor as a known badass, not just as a mysterious wanderer. I think Deadly Assassin, Underworld and Invasion Of Time are where he realises that he is great at what he does and that he shouldn’t have any further responsibility. Which is why it’s not really a surprise that it took as long as Water Of Mars to realise that “the laws of time belong to (him)” since he is the only one left with the power and the experience to look after them. And also why it doesn’t last long. Yeah, it's difficult to pin down exactly, but the shift is definitely somewhere in there. I'm tempted to say that shift emerges circa The Masque of Mandragora and Season 14, but it might come a squidge earlier than that. It's tricky to tell. His role as UNIT's consultant on xenosciences doesn't really finish until The Seeds of Doom. |
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