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Post by pazzer on Jan 12, 2020 22:11:02 GMT
Was very confused as to what was going on and why doing things. Everyone apart from Bella who was great were underdeveloped. But it didn't really matter as they were just monster fodder. The monsters were well done and looked scary. Got sick of all the people sacrificing themselves. Nice to find out they were on Ravolox. Could have done without the lecture at the end.
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Post by stcoop on Jan 12, 2020 22:38:07 GMT
After the fist two episodes I thought they might have learned their lesson and dropped the simplistic, patronising moralising but more fool me. This was on the level of the PSAs that would pop up at the end of an episode of He-Man.
And was there no one involved in make the show (let alone Chibnall) who found themselves thinking, "I'm sure Doctor Who has done exactly this twist before..."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 22:44:10 GMT
And was there no one involved in make the show (let alone Chibnall) who found themselves thinking, "I'm sure Doctor Who has done exactly this twist before..." Probably. Or maybe they might have thought this twist hasn't been done on the show in over 3 decades (& it wasn't exactly a new twist in sci-fi then either!) & the kids today, who are our target audience, probably haven't watched that particular adventure.
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Post by scriptortempore on Jan 12, 2020 22:49:13 GMT
Whilst I do understand why people are annoyed that the twist has already been done, I don't mind it so much. I think not just as an episode of who but something millions will watch, it's fine to use effective twists to get people to care about a relevant social issue. It would of course be preferable if Who was kept in continuity with some of its more iconic episodes, but Earth whoniverse history has been very muddled for a long time now! Really, the big difference is effectiveness of message. This episode wasn't great and I think a lot of people will be done with the story and won't particularly care for the message. Certainly not when its done in such a lazy way as 13 talking directly to camera! That's not going to get people to care about climate change anywhere near as effectively as it should've done.
I certainly think the comparisons to Tsuranga are correct, as they both clearly didn't get much of Chibnall's budget.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 22:51:52 GMT
And was there no one involved in make the show (let alone Chibnall) who found themselves thinking, "I'm sure Doctor Who has done exactly this twist before..." Probably. Or maybe they might have thought this twist hasn't been done on the show in over 3 decades (& it wasn't exactly a new twist in sci-fi then either!) & the kids today, who are our target audience, probably haven't watched that particular adventure. Yes, it's really just the "You finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up!" Planet Of The Apes ending that's been done by every anthology show ever...but I wouldn't expect today's kids to know the ending of Chuck Heston movies or Outer Limits eps any more than the Doctor Who era of Colin Baker that was on when their parents were kids themselves - if they were even born. If anything it's quite fun that it aped (ha) a Colin era story given Chibnall's infamous TV appearance saying the show was going right downhill was smack dab in that era! One of life's little fun quirks.
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Post by scriptortempore on Jan 12, 2020 22:57:11 GMT
Whilst I do understand why people are annoyed that the twist has already been done, I don't mind it so much. I think not just as an episode of who but something millions will watch, it's fine to use effective twists to get people to care about a relevant social issue. It would of course be preferable if Who was kept in continuity with some of its more iconic episodes, but Earth whoniverse history has been very muddled for a long time now! Really, the big difference is effectiveness of message. This episode wasn't great and I think a lot of people will be done with the story and won't particularly care for the message. Certainly not when its done in such a lazy way as 13 talking directly to camera! That's not going to get people to care about climate change anywhere near as effectively as it should've done. I certainly think the comparisons to Tsuranga are correct, as they both clearly didn't get much of Chibnall's budget. I think as this conversation has also turned a bit to the relevance for the right age group, I'm 20 and I'm talking to my friend (not a representational sample which should be at least 1000 to draw inferences about the wider population but in fact.... 1 person) they ended up turning off before the episode was over, but did get to the relevant pre-ending bits about climate change and weren't impressed with the story's plot, structure etc. Which is exactly what I mean when I say that you need a good story to earn that receptiveness to the social message.
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Post by stcoop on Jan 12, 2020 22:57:18 GMT
And was there no one involved in make the show (let alone Chibnall) who found themselves thinking, "I'm sure Doctor Who has done exactly this twist before..." Probably. Or maybe they might have thought this twist hasn't been done on the show in over 3 decades (& it wasn't exactly a new twist in sci-fi then either!) & the kids today, who are our target audience, probably haven't watched that particular adventure. Do me a favour and stop reading and replying to anything I post because I'm sick and tired of your endless defending of everything no matter how bad it is.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 23:03:14 GMT
Probably. Or maybe they might have thought this twist hasn't been done on the show in over 3 decades (& it wasn't exactly a new twist in sci-fi then either!) & the kids today, who are our target audience, probably haven't watched that particular adventure. Do me a favour and stop reading and replying to anything I post because I'm sick and tired of your endless defending of everything no matter how bad it is. I will respond to whatever posts I want. But I am not "defending..everything no matter how bad it is", just providing my opinion (whether something is good or bad is purely subjective opinion of course). In fact you will see that I didn't give this episode a perfect review because I didn't think it was perfect. You can of course always use the block feature if you really are not only "sick" but also "tired".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 23:15:47 GMT
Do me a favour and stop reading and replying to anything I post because I'm sick and tired of your endless defending of everything no matter how bad it is. I will respond to whatever posts I want. But I am not "defending..everything no matter how bad it is", just providing my opinion (whether something is good or bad is purely subjective opinion of course). In fact you will see that I didn't give this episode a perfect review because I didn't think it was perfect. You can of course always use the block feature if you really are not only "sick" but also "tired". I think you can have been accused of a lot on the forum over the piece but being a blind cheerleader isn't one of them! I think that's somehow a compliment!
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Post by mrperson on Jan 12, 2020 23:21:20 GMT
Given the votes, perhaps I shouldn't be mildly miffed I don't get this until tomorrow (U.S., amazon HD stream)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 23:29:35 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't feel that the twist in this episode contradicts anything we've seen in Doctor Who. As The Doctor was at pains to point out in the final act, what we saw is only one possibility for the future of our planet; nothing is fixed. Presumably there are other possible futures which feature Ravalox, or the Planet of the Apes or perhaps even one where everything will be fine. Although I admit that last possibility is a little remote.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 23:37:10 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't feel that the twist in this episode contradicts anything we've seen in Doctor Who. As The Doctor was at pains to point out in the final act, what we saw is only one possibility for the future of our planet; nothing is fixed. Presumably there are other possible futures which feature Ravalox, or the Planet of the Apes or perhaps even one where everything will be fine. Although I admit that last possibility is a little remote. I also think Chibbers preferred to give the climate change message with a glimmer of hope rather than say we're all doomed!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 23:44:13 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't feel that the twist in this episode contradicts anything we've seen in Doctor Who. As The Doctor was at pains to point out in the final act, what we saw is only one possibility for the future of our planet; nothing is fixed. Presumably there are other possible futures which feature Ravalox, or the Planet of the Apes or perhaps even one where everything will be fine. Although I admit that last possibility is a little remote. I also think Chibbers preferred to give the climate change message with a glimmer of hope rather than say we're all doomed! Absolutely - which is in line with what science seems to generally agree on, that we're not too far gone...but not too far off it. The time to act isn't tomorrow but today. It really is quite something that this ep dropped on the exact same day that the headlines on the BBC are about the Aus PM's climate change acceptance and Roger Federrer being accused of being in the pocket of those causing some of the worst effects. It's nice to see Who being proactive rather than reactive. People can say it was simplistic and hamfisted - and as drama they're absolutely right - but I really struggle to dislike something when it's so unambiguously saying some things are much more important than 50 mins of TV.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 13, 2020 0:25:46 GMT
Probably. Or maybe they might have thought this twist hasn't been done on the show in over 3 decades (& it wasn't exactly a new twist in sci-fi then either!) & the kids today, who are our target audience, probably haven't watched that particular adventure. Do me a favour and stop reading and replying to anything I post because I'm sick and tired of your endless defending of everything no matter how bad it is. I don’t think you understand how message forums operate. A person comments, a person responds and so forth. i just watched it and while not groundbreaking, it’s a solid 45 minutes of Doctor Who. And we are kind of in a crisis as far as the planet is concerned, so the show wants to jump on a soap box and go to town, well, we are kind of in a crisis as far as the planet is concerned. The thing which really is bugging me though is the blatant retrocon, the Doctor can’t breath in a non oxygen environment now? What the eff Chibbers?
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Post by Digi on Jan 13, 2020 2:20:23 GMT
It was a fun horror episode, but I found the messaging a bit hamfisted and awkward.
My conspiracy-deranged, reality-denying father will undoubtedly add this to his repertoire of how science isn't science.
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Post by elkawho on Jan 13, 2020 2:31:56 GMT
I haven't read anything in this thread at all so I have no idea what you guys have said. I am usually a very positive person and can find SOMETHING but..
Oh my did I hate this episode. I hated every second of it. EVERY SECOND. And I really tried to find something, I just couldn't. I even hated the beginning with Graham cleaning the floor and then going to the resort. Every second!! Ugh. When the writer's name came up I said to my kids, Huh, never heard of him before. And now I hope he never writes for Who again.
Nothing made any sense. Why bring an old lady and a kid out of the walls if it's so dangerous? Wouldn't there have been a study done on that planet before being able to terraform? If there is no other living thing on the planet, what did they eat before they hunted humans on vacation? Why do they hate oxygen, we don't hate CO2? Did we really need to see Ryan sucking his thumb? Did we need just one more heavy handed "humans are killing the Earth" trope? Why would Bella blow the place up? I know she supposedly hated her mom, but so much that she was willing to kill all the folks in the place? Really? And how did she get bombs there anyway? How did The Doctor get that thing in the cage? What? And I could go on and on....
Utterly unbelievable. There had to have been a better script somewhere than this.
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Post by elkawho on Jan 13, 2020 2:55:22 GMT
Ok, so I just looked it up. Ed Hime wrote It Takes You Away??!! It almost makes this worse because I know he can write really good Doctor Who!
Now I'm just depressed.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jan 13, 2020 3:51:28 GMT
Did we need just one more heavy handed "humans are killing the Earth" trope? They seem to be timely. Ok, so I just looked it up. Ed Hime wrote It Takes You Away??!! It almost makes this worse because I know he can write really good Doctor Who! Now I'm just depressed. Buck up, lol. I'm sure lots of us can find one episode per season that just doesn't do it for us. They've a few more chances left this season.
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Post by nottenst on Jan 13, 2020 4:07:16 GMT
I haven't read anything in this thread at all so I have no idea what you guys have said. I am usually a very positive person and can find SOMETHING but.. Oh my did I hate this episode. I hated every second of it. EVERY SECOND. And I really tried to find something, I just couldn't. I even hated the beginning with Graham cleaning the floor and then going to the resort. Every second!! Ugh. When the writer's name came up I said to my kids, Huh, never heard of him before. And now I hope he never writes for Who again. Nothing made any sense. Why bring an old lady and a kid out of the walls if it's so dangerous? Wouldn't there have been a study done on that planet before being able to terraform? Why do they hate oxygen, we don't hate CO2? Did we really need to see Ryan sucking his thumb? Did we need just one more heavy handed "humans are killing the Earth" trope? Why would Bella blow the place up? I know she supposedly hated her mom, but so much that she was willing to kill all the folks in the place? Really? And how did she get bombs there anyway? How did The Doctor get that thing in the cage? What? And I could go on and on.... Utterly unbelievable. There had to have been a better script somewhere than this. I thought it was nice that they had an unseen adventure before this. All the plotholes you point out are valid. One thing though - should they have been able to teleport out the TARDIS and back into it?
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Post by elkawho on Jan 13, 2020 4:12:09 GMT
I haven't read anything in this thread at all so I have no idea what you guys have said. I am usually a very positive person and can find SOMETHING but.. Oh my did I hate this episode. I hated every second of it. EVERY SECOND. And I really tried to find something, I just couldn't. I even hated the beginning with Graham cleaning the floor and then going to the resort. Every second!! Ugh. When the writer's name came up I said to my kids, Huh, never heard of him before. And now I hope he never writes for Who again. Nothing made any sense. Why bring an old lady and a kid out of the walls if it's so dangerous? Wouldn't there have been a study done on that planet before being able to terraform? Why do they hate oxygen, we don't hate CO2? Did we really need to see Ryan sucking his thumb? Did we need just one more heavy handed "humans are killing the Earth" trope? Why would Bella blow the place up? I know she supposedly hated her mom, but so much that she was willing to kill all the folks in the place? Really? And how did she get bombs there anyway? How did The Doctor get that thing in the cage? What? And I could go on and on.... Utterly unbelievable. There had to have been a better script somewhere than this. I thought it was nice that they had an unseen adventure before this. All the plotholes you point out are valid. One thing though - should they have been able to teleport out the TARDIS and back into it? Probably not, but they did establish that that was how it worked when they first met What'shername with a 3. (oy vey)
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