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Post by barnabaslives on Jan 13, 2020 4:15:15 GMT
I liked it, warts and all. Whatever I could come up with for criticisms, it still just really felt like an episode of Doctor Who and I really appreciate that. I think the only reason I would be in less of a hurry to see it again than any other 13th Doctor episode might be just because it's hard to put such a big spoiler back in the bag, but it's still a good fast-paced suspenseful adventure. On the human side it did as well as it could at getting us to like to guest cast before feeding them to the monsters, lol, for the limited time it had to do so with so much going on. I couldn't help but think of Charlton Heston movies with the underground ruins scene and I've have been rotfl if they'd gone so far as to have Thirteen use the word ape, but what can you say about tropes? For me it's not that much whether an idea is original but how it's used. Gallifrey Spirit takes one of my least favorite tropes of all time and uses it to such good effect that I couldn't help but really like it even though 'tis my bane, lol. I appreciate that they're dusting this one off for a younger generation - I just hope they don't get playing too loose and fast with the science because they think kids won't know the difference, especially since this episode put a little bit of spotlight on the kind of kid who would know the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 6:06:44 GMT
I also think Chibbers preferred to give the climate change message with a glimmer of hope rather than say we're all doomed! Absolutely - which is in line with what science seems to generally agree on, that we're not too far gone...but not too far off it. The time to act isn't tomorrow but today. It really is quite something that this ep dropped on the exact same day that the headlines on the BBC are about the Aus PM's climate change acceptance and Roger Federrer being accused of being in the pocket of those causing some of the worst effects. It's nice to see Who being proactive rather than reactive. People can say it was simplistic and hamfisted - and as drama they're absolutely right - but I really struggle to dislike something when it's so unambiguously saying some things are much more important than 50 mins of TV. And honestly, living in a country where over 25 people have died -- burned to death or suffocated -- since December because people are not taking climate change seriously... Hope is good. I like hope. Because without it, we're dead.
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Post by ollychops on Jan 13, 2020 7:51:24 GMT
Okay, so a few of my thoughts... - This story was essentially Midnight meets The Mysterious Planet, which is more of an observation than anything. I'm aware that for a show that's 55+ years, we're going to get some stories that are similar to others.
- The episode started off well, but got messier as it went on. I think the pacing was off for some of it, and the other thing was...
- The bloated guest cast. We started off with a promising set of guest characters, but we weren't really given much time to get to know them before it hit the fan and we got into the main plot, and they weren't really fleshed out/developed throughout the episode so by the time they got offed, I wasn't that invested in them so I didn't really care (In fact, I was kind of glad when the older lady got killed off, just so I didn't have to hear "Benni!" again). I think they could have done with cutting down the cast a little - like, what purpose did Hyph3n serve? All she did was greet them at the start and... then got killed off. And let's not start on the awful panto costume for her.
- On the other hand, Bella was one of the few characters that were fleshed out but... the whole blowing up the spa plan was a little ridiculous just because her mother walked out on her. I was glad that she gave Ryan something to do in this episode, but the fact they tried to pair them up despite the lack of chemistry... Yikes.
- I was disappointed we had another case of "tell, not show" with Benni. It would have been far more interesting to see him with the creatures and see them toying with the group as opposed to hearing/being told about it.
- I don't mind Doctor Who being a little preachy and it's always tried to include some sort of message in stories (just look at The Green Death!), so I don't mind them tackling an issue like climate change, but to me it felt very tacked-on at the end. And, my God, that speech by Thirteen was too on the nose - yes, warn about the dangers of climate change, but don't beat us over the head with the point you're trying to make. Could someone please teach this Doctor Who team about nuance, because this is far from the first time we've had very, very preachy messages in this era. They need to learn some subtlety.
- So, onto the more positive things! The Dregs looked really good, despite the fact they didn't do much aside from lurking around.
- I liked the orphan planets idea.
- The dialogue seemed a little snappier this week, which makes a nice change.
- Overall, this was a fun romp, but it could have been so so much better - this felt more like the first draft of the episode. Because of the issues, it ended up being more average, even if it made the 50 minutes go by quick. I still find it difficult that the guy that wrote the stand-out It Takes You Away in S11 wrote this episode.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 13, 2020 7:56:01 GMT
Arrrrghhh, there's a good story desperately trying to get out here but sadly the nauseating rapid fire editing, the close up shots of the monsters, the underdeveloped characters & manic pacing of the episode left me a bit underwhelmed.
This is my type of episode but the whole thing was very rushed, we never got to know the characters & the actual monsters were very 70's rubbery looking, this story needed to be longer & have a director who knows how to create tension by not showing the monster in close up in nearly every shot.
The mother/daughter arc never materialized because of the storylines manic pace & the old lady God she was annoying.
Not awful, there's some good ideas here it just needed to be a two parter to build up those character arcs so when they die i actually gave a sh.t, overall a missed opportunity & wasted potential although I'd be interested in reading a Target novelization if they ever release one.
2/5
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Post by number13 on Jan 13, 2020 9:41:09 GMT
Ok, so I just looked it up. Ed Hime wrote It Takes You Away??!! It almost makes this worse because I know he can write really good Doctor Who! I agree with all of your logical points about the plot Elka and there are many many more similar points one could make, so many it's really quite extraordinary for one single episode to have so much clearly "wrong" with it. Especially given that the writer has written some of the most original and unusual episodes of TV Who I've ever seen.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jan 13, 2020 10:13:36 GMT
Be warned! My opinion on this episode will be different from everyone else. Don't hate me for it. 'Bradley's Basement' review coming soon! Tim.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 10:39:57 GMT
4.19 million Dregs watched Orphan 55 last night. Sub-4 million next week? It's only a possibility: nothing is fixed!
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 13, 2020 12:09:54 GMT
Its an episode that when it hit its target it was great
but on other parts it missed the mark.
I felt that the story would have been better without the Climate Change stuff (though that did work). I honestly thought it was going to be set on Earth during that period before The Ark In Space
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 12:25:13 GMT
I wasn't too impressed with Orphan 55, by the time it finished I had been looking at the clock a few times to see how long was left, which is always a bad sign when watching a TV programme. I don't have a problem with the human's are the real monsters destroying the world stuff, it just came across as a tiresome message that wasn't wrapped up in a decent story. I don't watch TV programmes looking for issues, I just like to be entertained. Orphan 55 had plenty of action, but very little else. Among all the running around I didn't actually care what happened to the characters, and whilst it was a traditional DW style plot it wasn't that enjoyable. Nobody will remember much from this story in five years time, maybe bar the end bit. I gave this a 2/5 in the poll
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 13:10:35 GMT
The DW FB page has now posted the end speech in full with an emoji of the Earth just in case anyone was in doubt. Needless to say the angry face emoji responses are out in force Brilliantly some are STILL finding a way to blame the ep's perceived issues on casting a woman (!?) - you have to admire that kind of endurance to still hate watch, most are just saying it was too heavy handed, some are saying it needed to be blunt so they're OK with it, some who say Who shouldn't be political, some saying it always was, others saying that climate change isn't politics but fact and....I SWEAR TO GOD, there are some "They should bring back Moffat...." posts. No doubt from ex-members of the "Moffat Must Go" brigade. "They'll love me when I'm dead" to quote Orson Welles... Quite a fun read all in all! Though some people's biggest complaint is not giving Jay from The Inbetweeners jokes. Doesn't that just show that for some more casual fans they just want some fun with actors they like? I think that's really the voice of the casual audience there. Interestingly very, very few are saying anything about this reminding them of other stories so I guess that shows it's really only us long term fans who notice much less care this is a bit Colin-y.
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Post by nottenst on Jan 13, 2020 14:57:35 GMT
It seems that this is just about a completely stand alone episode and has nothing to do with an arc this season.
What if it does have a link? What if the link is that the future isn't fixed. If the future of Earth isn't fixed, why would what happened to Gallifrey be fixed? Will the season finale be The Doctor stopping the The Master from destroying Gallifrey? Either outright or making it only seem like he succeeded?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 15:59:07 GMT
It seems that this is just about a completely stand alone episode and has nothing to do with an arc this season. What if it does have a link? What if the link is that the future isn't fixed. If the future of Earth isn't fixed, why would what happened to Gallifrey be fixed? Will the season finale be The Doctor stopping the The Master from destroying Gallifrey? Either outright or making it only seem like he succeeded? Could be but the show has loved, especially the past 15 years, doing the "fixed points" versus "in flux" thing. I guess Gallifrey could easily be fixed while Earth itself, as opposed to Humans who can flee off-world, is in flux.
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Post by timegirl on Jan 13, 2020 16:35:21 GMT
Just finished Orphan 55, it was much more of a standard episode than the game changer that is Spyfall we had last, but I did enjoy it 🙂despite the fact that it definitely should have been a two parter🤔 I really enjoyed the whole set up, and thought I thought there was some really good comedy (especially with Graham😉)and suspense ( the dregs)😱 early on, but I thought it was way too rushed. Even though the twist of the Orphan 55 being Earth and the Dregs being mutated humans was one that was one that was fairly obvious and twists that have been done many times before, I think the episode had a very important message especially with all the climate change denial, the fires in Australia, and the heroic efforts to raise awareness of climate change by Greta Thurnburg. I thought 13’s speech at the end was very effective and chilling especially that ending with cutting to the Dreg roaring at the end🤔💀I am sorry (not sorry) but we cannot afford to be subtle about getting the message of how dangerous climate change is across in media anymore, with the way things are going!
I think this episode had good bones, but it would have been even better as a two parter. I wish we had more time exploring the spa and building tension before things heated up. I thought the spa and it’s colorful inhabitants should have been more fleshed out as I loved the vibe of it early on and it gave me serious late 80s Who vibes! I also thought that although the design of the Dregs was truly great and terrifying (sort of a horrible mixture of the Demigorgan from Stranger Things and the Creature from the Black Lagoon) I thought they showed way to much of the creatures too early on. I think it would have been far more effective if there were two parts, the first one focusing on exploring the spa, getting to know the inhabitants, and getting a few horrifying but short glimpses of the Dregs, and then second part could have been the part in the wasteland and the full on Dregs. That way there would be more tension and we would care more about the fates of the supporting cast🤔 So not a masterpiece but some very good and effective bits in it🤔🙂 I am very looking forward to Nikola Tesla’s Night of Terror next week though! That looks like a real cracker of an episode!😀
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 13, 2020 16:43:13 GMT
Ok, so I just looked it up. Ed Hime wrote It Takes You Away??!! It almost makes this worse because I know he can write really good Doctor Who! Now I'm just depressed. How does it make it worse? Writers write stuff people like or love one time and then write something they dislike or hate the next time. How does that effect anything one way or another? I loved The Doctor's Wife but hated Nightmare in Silver. I still think Neil Gaimen is wonderful writer. So at worst, and if we just take his Doctor Who scripts into account, Gaimen, and I suppose Hime as well, is 50/50 with scripts for the show.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 17:28:54 GMT
It seems that this is just about a completely stand alone episode and has nothing to do with an arc this season. What if it does have a link? What if the link is that the future isn't fixed. If the future of Earth isn't fixed, why would what happened to Gallifrey be fixed? Will the season finale be The Doctor stopping the The Master from destroying Gallifrey? Either outright or making it only seem like he succeeded? Trouble is that Gallifrey and the Time Lords have been driven into a plot cul de sac with nowhere else to go. They've gone from being the crusty custodians of time who were content to observe to being "decadent, corrupt and rotten to the core" to actively participating in a genocidal war throughout the whole of space and time to willing to rip the whole of reality apart to become beings of pure consciousness. So heres a thought. What if you are right and the future of Gallifrey isn't a fixed point in time, but once the knowledge of whatever terrible lie the founding fathers started with the secret of the Timeless Child becomes known to her, coupled with the memories of the atrocities committed on the universe by her own people over the centuries...what if the Doctor chooses not to restore the status quo? What if she chooses to consign the monsters of Gallifrey to the pages of history? What if she ends up following the path (albeit without the use of weapons) set out by the man who was once her oldest friend and is now her oldest enemy? Won't happen that way of course, but if it did ...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 18:02:33 GMT
It seems that this is just about a completely stand alone episode and has nothing to do with an arc this season. What if it does have a link? What if the link is that the future isn't fixed. If the future of Earth isn't fixed, why would what happened to Gallifrey be fixed? Will the season finale be The Doctor stopping the The Master from destroying Gallifrey? Either outright or making it only seem like he succeeded? Trouble is that Gallifrey and the Time Lords have been driven into a plot cul de sac with nowhere else to go. They've gone from being the crusty custodians of time who were content to observe to being "decadent, corrupt and rotten to the core" to actively participating in a genocidal war throughout the whole of space and time to willing to rip the whole of reality apart to become beings of pure consciousness. So heres a thought. What if you are right and the future of Gallifrey isn't a fixed point in time, but once the knowledge of whatever terrible lie the founding fathers started with the secret of the Timeless Child becomes known to her, coupled with the memories of the atrocities committed on the universe by her own people over the centuries...what if the Doctor chooses not to restore the status quo? What if she chooses to consign the monsters of Gallifrey to the pages of history? What if she ends up following the path (albeit without the use of weapons) set out by the man who was once her oldest friend and is now her oldest enemy? Won't happen that way of course, but if it did ... That's a terrific thought. I think by bringing back Gallifrey at all, CC seems to have some ideas as to it's future (or lack of one), and given his track record regarding UNIT and Torchwood, well, you never know. To be honest, I find it hard to muster up much enthusiasm regarding Gallifrey and its people, so I find your ideas have a real appeal.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jan 13, 2020 18:32:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 18:36:53 GMT
4.19 million Dregs watched Orphan 55 last night. Sub-4 million next week? It's only a possibility: nothing is fixed! So what? Why are some here so obsessed with ratings?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 19:25:05 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 19:47:06 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future. Its merely stating a hard fact. Unfortunately it seems a case of ratings up = highly significant, ratings down = of no significance. Ratings are heading south and getting annoyed and rude with someone for posting this data seems a bit off, to me at least. Once can debate the reasons for this until the cows come home, but the hard fact is that a lot of time, effort and money goes into these episodes for diminishing returns. I suspect the audience figures matter more to the powers that be than critical reception from fans, so I do not think it can be ignored.
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