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Post by elkawho on Jan 13, 2020 23:46:07 GMT
Just finished it.
Oh my god. This was DARK. This was basically a mesh-up of Alien, The Time Machine, Planet of the Apes, Midnight and... the Tsuranga Conundrum. We have a really great scary Monster, tons of atmosphere and quite a death toll. But somehow it did jump from great creepy atmospheric bits to something that felt like "Sleep No More", just with Morlocks instead of Sandmen.
I agree with everybody saying this was too frantic. It just did not take any time to breathe and let that atmosphere hit home.
And then came the moral message. It just felt very awkward to me. I also do not think it help the issue if Climate Change deniers get compared to man-eating Morlocks.
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
YANA Literally shouted the same at my TV Regards mark687 Yeah, my kids and I pretty much did that too. Just another question to add to the bunch of things that didn't make sense in my post.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 13, 2020 23:59:58 GMT
Paul Magrs summed it up really well for me with this,
Thoroughly enjoyed that, I have to say! I love Dr Who when it has that slightly old school naffness about it. I love men in monster suits and barricades made from sun loungers and the discovery of yet another blitzed future earth. I love bizarrely acted guest roles (Benni!!!), pointlessly heroic self sacrifice and ludicrous plot conveniences. And I especially love that heady combination of silliness, dark comedy and heavy-handed lecturing. It's gloriously daft, just like it always was. There's lots you can say about this episode, but it wasn't dull and it was definitely fun.
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Post by number13 on Jan 14, 2020 0:11:16 GMT
Paul Magrs summed it up really well for me with this, Thoroughly enjoyed that, I have to say! I love Dr Who when it has that slightly old school naffness about it. I love men in monster suits and barricades made from sun loungers and the discovery of yet another blitzed future earth. I love bizarrely acted guest roles (Benni!!!), pointlessly heroic self sacrifice and ludicrous plot conveniences. And I especially love that heady combination of silliness, dark comedy and heavy-handed lecturing. It's gloriously daft, just like it always was. There's lots you can say about this episode, but it wasn't dull and it was definitely fun.Yes, this. This exactly. 'silliness, dark comedy and heavy-handed lecturing. It's gloriously daft'
Comedy disguised as horror or horror comedy, a send-up, a satire, call it what you will.
I think it's the funniest episode of Who I've seen for a very long time, deadpan and brilliant. Another great episode by Ed Hime (and so very different from 'It Takes You Away'.)
And I bet that end scene doesn't half wind-up 'the usual suspects'.
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Post by Whovitt on Jan 14, 2020 2:23:55 GMT
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
And survive being strangled by an Osiran servitor robot - I think that was the first time this ability came up. (Yet another fact about Time Lords we learned from Robert Holmes, they owe him so much!) Actually, I believe it dates back as far as one of Holmes' earliest ever scripts, The Space Pirates. When the Doctor, Jamie, and Zoe are trapped in a fragment of the exploded satellite/station/whatever-it-was, they have only one oxygen cylinder to share between them before the air runs out. The Doctor makes a point of letting Jamie and Zoe have more air than him as he doesn't need as much as them
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,666
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 14, 2020 3:44:41 GMT
YANA Literally shouted the same at my TV Regards mark687 Yeah, my kids and I pretty much did that too. Just another question to add to the bunch of things that didn't make sense in my post. Without it we wouldn’t have gotten the line about “really angry trees.” Which made me laugh out loud. Maybe her tank was faulty or had been used previously.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,666
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 14, 2020 3:46:28 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future. I don’t have an issue with the ratings: it’s all information.
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Post by elkawho on Jan 14, 2020 5:02:35 GMT
Paul Magrs summed it up really well for me with this, Thoroughly enjoyed that, I have to say! I love Dr Who when it has that slightly old school naffness about it. I love men in monster suits and barricades made from sun loungers and the discovery of yet another blitzed future earth. I love bizarrely acted guest roles (Benni!!!), pointlessly heroic self sacrifice and ludicrous plot conveniences. And I especially love that heady combination of silliness, dark comedy and heavy-handed lecturing. It's gloriously daft, just like it always was. There's lots you can say about this episode, but it wasn't dull and it was definitely fun.Yes, this. This exactly. 'silliness, dark comedy and heavy-handed lecturing. It's gloriously daft'
Comedy disguised as horror or horror comedy, a send-up, a satire, call it what you will.
I think it's the funniest episode of Who I've seen for a very long time, deadpan and brilliant. Another great episode by Ed Hime (and so very different from 'It Takes You Away'.)
And I bet that end scene doesn't half wind-up 'the usual suspects'. I think this is the problem for me. I completely didn't get the satire. (And I'm one of the few that really likes Love and Monsters!) One of these days I might be able to give it another shot and try to approach it from your point of view. Maybe I'll change my mind. Maybe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 5:43:34 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future. Its merely stating a hard fact. Unfortunately it seems a case of ratings up = highly significant, ratings down = of no significance. Ratings are heading south and getting annoyed and rude with someone for posting this data seems a bit off, to me at least. Once can debate the reasons for this until the cows come home, but the hard fact is that a lot of time, effort and money goes into these episodes for diminishing returns. I suspect the audience figures matter more to the powers that be than critical reception from fans, so I do not think it can be ignored. I wasn't rude at someone. I was querying why some people are obsessed with ratings. Why can't people just enjoy or not enjoy an episode of a TV show without obsessing over ratings?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 11:46:25 GMT
Finally got round to watching Orphan 55 this morning...
Well that was delightfully daft now was isn't?
Way too manic with barely enough time to get to know the guest characters before the Dregs killed them.
The Hopper virus. I'm saying nothing about the cure...
Plot holes and contrivances galore (Bella had abandonment issues AND a death wish? The vehicle didn't have warning systems for a large obstruction in it's path? They crashed conveniently near the access point to a tunnel which conveniently takes them back to the hotel via a conveniently placed Dregs nest containing conviently just one Dreg? The scared old woman whose name I didn't even get suddenly goes full on Shelley Winters in the Poseidon Adventure and commits an act of self sacrifice? Oh wait...actually..that is exactly what Shelley Winters character did. Okay I'll let them have that one. Ooohh! It's a devastated Earth! Again! The Dreg corners the Doctor and Bella and rather than acting on the animal instincts we'd seen for most of the episode, backs off and allows itself to be caged?).
Some really questionable dialogue in places (Benni, had you actually taken the time to watch a few disaster movies before your trip to Tranquility you'd have known that you tell the love of your life to live her life and then run for that life in a wearily but bravely resigned to your fate kind of way. You don't face your imminent demise and lift her spirits by proposing marriage and then crush them by asking to be shot. Even Irwin Allen knew that!).
Then there was THAT speech at the end. I'd have liked it a bit more Greta Thunberg ..heartfelt and relatable to the audience it was aimed at. What we got was delivered with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer and wouldn't have been out of place if uttered by Captain Kirk during an episode of 60's Star Trek. Come to think of it, it might have been fun if Jodie had channelled her inner William Shatner..
Seriously silly, seriously contrived and seriously clunky....and I'm seriously watching it again at the weekend. Ideally with a bowl of popcorn and my brain parked in neutral. 😋
Would it have really killed them to slow the whole thing down just a bit though?
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Post by mark687 on Jan 14, 2020 12:34:46 GMT
Apparently the ending got hyped up as "Unmissable" in promotional stuff? I cant say I saw/read anything to indicate that.
Regards
mark687
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Post by number13 on Jan 14, 2020 12:41:36 GMT
Yes, this. This exactly. 'silliness, dark comedy and heavy-handed lecturing. It's gloriously daft'
Comedy disguised as horror or horror comedy, a send-up, a satire, call it what you will.
I think it's the funniest episode of Who I've seen for a very long time, deadpan and brilliant. Another great episode by Ed Hime (and so very different from 'It Takes You Away'.)
And I bet that end scene doesn't half wind-up 'the usual suspects'. I think this is the problem for me. I completely didn't get the satire. (And I'm one of the few that really likes Love and Monsters!) One of these days I might be able to give it another shot and try to approach it from your point of view. Maybe I'll change my mind. Maybe. Good luck! I should give 'Love and Monsters' another go I suppose...
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Post by number13 on Jan 14, 2020 12:50:19 GMT
And survive being strangled by an Osiran servitor robot - I think that was the first time this ability came up. (Yet another fact about Time Lords we learned from Robert Holmes, they owe him so much!) Actually, I believe it dates back as far as one of Holmes' earliest ever scripts, The Space Pirates. When the Doctor, Jamie, and Zoe are trapped in a fragment of the exploded satellite/station/whatever-it-was, they have only one oxygen cylinder to share between them before the air runs out. The Doctor makes a point of letting Jamie and Zoe have more air than him as he doesn't need as much as them You're right, he does! And (also before 'Pyramids' now I come to think of it) when the Doctor and Sarah are trapped in the decompression chamber in 'Terror of the Zygons', he's on his feet and working at the door long after Sarah is out for the count. OK so we didn't know what it was called until 'Pyramids' but we knew the Doctor was special in that way. And every other way of course!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 13:07:40 GMT
I think this is the problem for me. I completely didn't get the satire. (And I'm one of the few that really likes Love and Monsters!) One of these days I might be able to give it another shot and try to approach it from your point of view. Maybe I'll change my mind. Maybe. Good luck! I should give 'Love and Monsters' another go I suppose... Not to go too far OT but I like Love & Monsters quite a bit too, like Elka. I like the idea that we've seen done a lot now but was fresh then of taking a Who story from a different POV entirely. It needed someone with some cred to hold the screen and Marc Warren is one of the busiest TV workers in the UK over the past 20 years for a reason. He's terrific. Using ELO as the soundtrack, seeing Jackie from a totally different vantage point, Peter Kay totally getting the tone of the piece exactly right, and a really oddball pavement slab sex life joke that I love for it's audacity - it's so RTD. Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her and a good chunk of the Age Of Steel/Rise Of The Cybermen 2 parter (which I used to like but wow, does that not work now...) are a lot worse in that season alone in my book. Love & Monsters defender 4 life.
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Post by elkawho on Jan 14, 2020 13:19:05 GMT
Good luck! I should give 'Love and Monsters' another go I suppose... Not to go too far OT but I like Love & Monsters quite a bit too, like Elka. I like the idea that we've seen done a lot now but was fresh then of taking a Who story from a different POV entirely. It needed someone with some cred to hold the screen and Marc Warren is one of the busiest TV workers in the UK over the past 20 years for a reason. He's terrific. Using ELO as the soundtrack, seeing Jackie from a totally different vantage point, Peter Kay totally getting the tone of the piece exactly right, and a really oddball pavement slab sex life joke that I love for it's audacity - it's so RTD. Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her and a good chunk of the Age Of Steel/Rise Of The Cybermen 2 parter (which I used to like but wow, does that not work now...) are a lot worse in that season alone in my book. Love & Monsters defender 4 life. I knew there was a reason I liked you, Davy!
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,666
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 14, 2020 14:40:54 GMT
Good luck! I should give 'Love and Monsters' another go I suppose... Not to go too far OT but I like Love & Monsters quite a bit too, like Elka. I like the idea that we've seen done a lot now but was fresh then of taking a Who story from a different POV entirely. It needed someone with some cred to hold the screen and Marc Warren is one of the busiest TV workers in the UK over the past 20 years for a reason. He's terrific. Using ELO as the soundtrack, seeing Jackie from a totally different vantage point, Peter Kay totally getting the tone of the piece exactly right, and a really oddball pavement slab sex life joke that I love for it's audacity - it's so RTD. Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her and a good chunk of the Age Of Steel/Rise Of The Cybermen 2 parter (which I used to like but wow, does that not work now...) are a lot worse in that season alone in my book. Love & Monsters defender 4 life. Series 2 does a lot of stuff that critics of Series 11 go on about (slang, gurning, over-reliance on the sonic screwdriver, a general slagging off of guns, an “agenda”) but it gets cut a lot of slack. I’m not a huge fan of L & M but it tries to push an envelope which a lot of Who is content to stay within so I forgive it a lot of its sins, which can be found in a lot of other stories.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 14:45:05 GMT
Good luck! I should give 'Love and Monsters' another go I suppose... Not to go too far OT but I like Love & Monsters quite a bit too, like Elka. I like the idea that we've seen done a lot now but was fresh then of taking a Who story from a different POV entirely. It needed someone with some cred to hold the screen and Marc Warren is one of the busiest TV workers in the UK over the past 20 years for a reason. He's terrific. Using ELO as the soundtrack, seeing Jackie from a totally different vantage point, Peter Kay totally getting the tone of the piece exactly right, and a really oddball pavement slab sex life joke that I love for it's audacity - it's so RTD. Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her and a good chunk of the Age Of Steel/Rise Of The Cybermen 2 parter (which I used to like but wow, does that not work now...) are a lot worse in that season alone in my book. Love & Monsters defender 4 life. Urgh. Awful episode full of annoying characters & with a repugnant punchline. I'd rather watch the entire output of the 7th Doctor & I hate him!
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 14, 2020 19:21:07 GMT
Good luck! I should give 'Love and Monsters' another go I suppose... Not to go too far OT but I like Love & Monsters quite a bit too, like Elka. I like the idea that we've seen done a lot now but was fresh then of taking a Who story from a different POV entirely. It needed someone with some cred to hold the screen and Marc Warren is one of the busiest TV workers in the UK over the past 20 years for a reason. He's terrific. Using ELO as the soundtrack, seeing Jackie from a totally different vantage point, Peter Kay totally getting the tone of the piece exactly right, and a really oddball pavement slab sex life joke that I love for it's audacity - it's so RTD. Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her and a good chunk of the Age Of Steel/Rise Of The Cybermen 2 parter (which I used to like but wow, does that not work now...) are a lot worse in that season alone in my book. Love & Monsters defender 4 life. Well, I really like the IDEA of Love and Monsters and it was very well done... up until that alien turned up.
And that pavement stone joke at the end is the very reason I have never ever in my life watched a single episode of Torchwood, because I have a severe allergy against juvenile sexual humor.
And that was basically that. Completely ruined the experience for me I am afraid.
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Post by number13 on Jan 15, 2020 2:17:45 GMT
Good luck! I should give 'Love and Monsters' another go I suppose... Not to go too far OT but I like Love & Monsters quite a bit too, like Elka. I like the idea that we've seen done a lot now but was fresh then of taking a Who story from a different POV entirely. It needed someone with some cred to hold the screen and Marc Warren is one of the busiest TV workers in the UK over the past 20 years for a reason. He's terrific. Using ELO as the soundtrack, seeing Jackie from a totally different vantage point, Peter Kay totally getting the tone of the piece exactly right, and a really oddball pavement slab sex life joke that I love for it's audacity - it's so RTD. Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her and a good chunk of the Age Of Steel/Rise Of The Cybermen 2 parter (which I used to like but wow, does that not work now...) are a lot worse in that season alone in my book. Love & Monsters defender 4 life. I'll say I do remember it now as 'odd' and 'not that good' rather than one I really positively disliked (as I did dislike The Idiot's Lantern and Fear Her). It's an odd series for me, it has some of the episodes I like least but also my favourite Tenth Doctor stories (School Reunion, Girl in the Fireplace, Impossible Planet/Satan Pit) even though Donna is easily my favourite Companion from Ten's run and I went right off Rose in this series!
Maybe, maybe if L&M hadn't come right after such a classic (both senses) two-parter I might have remembered it better. Anyway, you have convinced me to watch it again!
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Post by Hieronymus on Jan 15, 2020 3:51:26 GMT
This episode didn't "wow" me, but it does showcase two ways in which the program has improved enormously over last season: (1) the Companions don't stand around in a circle and just talk. Characters run, climb, sit, and this leads to (2) more attention paid to shots and camerawork: interesting angles, tight shots, low shots, vertical movement, and generally enriching the visuals with variety.
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Post by agentten on Jan 15, 2020 7:30:47 GMT
*Spoilers*
This is probably not where the season's story line is going, but after the big twist, I had the thought that the destruction of Gallifrey and the destruction of Earth might be connected. The story that popped into my head was: what if the Doctor started discovering that places that shouldn't be destroyed, places that had fixed points in time that maybe hadn't even happened yet relative to her position in time, were being wiped out in one way or another. Perhaps Skaro is next, or Mondas. Significant places in Who lore that are suddenly popping up as wastelands. That sounded to me like an interesting mystery for the Doctor to solve. By the end of the episode, I had ruled out that theory, but I still like it. The implications of it present a pretty big threat for The Doctor to face.
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