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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 15, 2020 20:32:10 GMT
I don't quite agree with the critcism that the story moves too fast - it's a lean piece and, with all the nods to survival horror, there isn't a lot to slow down the plot. Not that the leaness isn't a problem, but I don't think Jones did a bad job with directing and pacing this.
Something I had forgotten to raise when people were approaching this as satire (I don't agree with the reading but hey, whatever floats your boat), the story I had knocking about in the back of my head was Oxygen - indeed, I think Matheison and Hime almost suffer from the opposite issue, even though Orphan and Oxygen arguably have similar problems and both owe a lot to retro-horror-sci-fi. Both came out swinging with a great debut, and then their following series story was a step-down. But where, I think, Matheison got bogged down having to setup elements for the bigger arcs of S9 and 10, diluting his voice and ideas that made Mummy and Flatline so good, I think Hime needed something bigger to anchor everything. As I mentioned before, Away was helped a lot by being an important part of Graham's arc - here, there's nothing like that, so it seems Hime got greater freedom and, perhaps, that wasn't the wisest move in hindsight.
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Post by mrperson on Jan 16, 2020 3:54:46 GMT
The wife: "that was all dumb."
Me: Meh...
* Standard action
* Too many conveniences, like the "oh it just so happens that this "worm"/virus thing that for some reason I'm still carrying around produces the exact substance needed to get us out of here. (And in second(s) flat)).
* "The future isn't fixed." Well yes, and no, depending on which era of the show you're in... strange the Doctor forgets to mention that humanity buggered off for a while (The Ark In Space). Seems odd that she didn't tell them. I can only suspect the writer didn't want to contradict the political message: do something, you idiots.
* The speech. On the nose, as it has been said. At least not quite as on the nose as "Zygon rebels are ISIS!" right down to the flag design, but yeah. We get it.
Didn't hate it. Didn't do much for me. 2-2.5/5?
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Post by mrperson on Jan 16, 2020 3:55:55 GMT
Was very confused as to what was going on and why doing things. Everyone apart from Bella who was great were underdeveloped. But it didn't really matter as they were just monster fodder. The monsters were well done and looked scary. Got sick of all the people sacrificing themselves. Nice to find out they were on Ravolox. Could have done without the lecture at the end. Ditto.
But I got even sicker of the soon-to-be survivors standing around watching the sacrifice die. I'd be pretty pissed if I sacrificed myself and the people I was doing it for wasted the time. I suppose I wouldn't be pissed for long, but still....
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Post by mrperson on Jan 16, 2020 4:13:24 GMT
Arrrrghhh, there's a good story desperately trying to get out here but sadly the nauseating rapid fire editing, the close up shots of the monsters, the underdeveloped characters & manic pacing of the episode left me a bit underwhelmed. This is my type of episode but the whole thing was very rushed, we never got to know the characters & the actual monsters were very 70's rubbery looking, this story needed to be longer & have a director who knows how to create tension by not showing the monster in close up in nearly every shot. The mother/daughter arc never materialized because of the storylines manic pace & the old lady God she was annoying. Not awful, there's some good ideas here it just needed to be a two parter to build up those character arcs so when they die i actually gave a sh.t, overall a missed opportunity & wasted potential although I'd be interested in reading a Target novelization if they ever release one. 2/5
I would have gagged that old lady with strip of cloth. Not to kill or hurt her, of course. But seriously...SHUSH, lady!
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Post by mrperson on Jan 16, 2020 4:20:58 GMT
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
YUP.
Wife and I said the same thing.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,661
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 16, 2020 14:06:54 GMT
Just finished it.
Oh my god. This was DARK. This was basically a mesh-up of Alien, The Time Machine, Planet of the Apes, Midnight and... the Tsuranga Conundrum. We have a really great scary Monster, tons of atmosphere and quite a death toll. But somehow it did jump from great creepy atmospheric bits to something that felt like "Sleep No More", just with Morlocks instead of Sandmen.
I agree with everybody saying this was too frantic. It just did not take any time to breathe and let that atmosphere hit home.
And then came the moral message. It just felt very awkward to me. I also do not think it help the issue if Climate Change deniers get compared to man-eating Morlocks.
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
Just watched it again and in the scene in the truck where Spunkmeyer, I mean Kane, is getting them evacuated through the base of ir, the Doctor smashes the vent with the arm that has the oxygen tank on it. There’s no mention, but it could be surmised that she damages her oxygen tank while doing this, meaning that she runs out long before the others.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,661
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 16, 2020 14:11:32 GMT
Watched it again tonight and enjoyed it a lot more. I don’t think that Kane or Bella deserved going back for, to be h9nest, so I’m ok with that decision. It made a lot more sense this time around and didn’t feel so rushed now that I knew where the beats were. Unfortunately, a lot of the audience aren’t going to do that so I’m going to stand by my original rating. The speech at the end still felt a little over the top, though, and I had some other thoughts:
- are the production team trying to give us the idea that Yaz fancies Ryan? There were a couple of moments where I thought that she was jealous of Bella.
- staying on Yaz: she seemed particularly disturbed by some aspects of the adventure and given her experiences in Spyfall 1 I’m thinking that we might not see her for much longer due to burnout. She seems to be taking what happens a lot more to heart than Graham or Ryan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 14:21:49 GMT
Watched it again tonight and enjoyed it a lot more. I don’t think that Kane or Bella deserved going back for, to be h9nest, so I’m ok with that decision. It made a lot more sense this time around and didn’t feel so rushed now that I knew where the beats were. Unfortunately, a lot of the audience aren’t going to do that so I’m going to stand by my original rating. The speech at the end still felt a little over the top, though, and I had some other thoughts: - are the production team trying to give us the idea that Yaz fancies Ryan? There were a couple of moments where I thought that she was jealous of Bella.- staying on Yaz: she seemed particularly disturbed by some aspects of the adventure and given her experiences in Spyfall 1 I’m thinking that we might not see her for much longer due to burnout. She seems to be taking what happens a lot more to heart than Graham or Ryan. I'd say that's clear from Spyfall's scene where she's relucant to give Ryan's number to her sister, then the camera lingers on her for a few seconds. Then when Ryan asks about her sister getting his number, she fobs him off and again it lingers on her. I hope it doesn't go that way honestly, not because I'm one of the "I don't want tomance in Doctor Who" brigade, far from it, just because the actors have zero chemistry in any romantic way and have clearly played a more brother-sister dynamic for all of S11 only for it to seemingly change now. As to your last paragraph I always think Yaz, well Mandip, is the only one who really sells any of these adventures. Her reaction shots, her awe and the way things sink in to her, or pour out...it's perfect companion material. The idea that we see the world through the companions' eyes is one I still subscribe too yet I don't feel like I get that with Graham or Ryan. For that reason I would love to see Yaz solo with the Doctor to really get to shine.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,661
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 16, 2020 14:25:19 GMT
Watched it again tonight and enjoyed it a lot more. I don’t think that Kane or Bella deserved going back for, to be h9nest, so I’m ok with that decision. It made a lot more sense this time around and didn’t feel so rushed now that I knew where the beats were. Unfortunately, a lot of the audience aren’t going to do that so I’m going to stand by my original rating. The speech at the end still felt a little over the top, though, and I had some other thoughts: - are the production team trying to give us the idea that Yaz fancies Ryan? There were a couple of moments where I thought that she was jealous of Bella.- staying on Yaz: she seemed particularly disturbed by some aspects of the adventure and given her experiences in Spyfall 1 I’m thinking that we might not see her for much longer due to burnout. She seems to be taking what happens a lot more to heart than Graham or Ryan. I'd say that's clear from Spyfall's scene where she's relucant to give Ryan's number to her sister, then the camera lingers on her for a few seconds. Then when Ryan asks about her sister getting his number, she fobs him off and again it lingers on her. I hope it doesn't go that way honestly, not because I'm one of the "I don't want tomance in Doctor Who" brigade, far from it, just because the actors have zero chemistry in any romantic way and have clearly played a more brother-sister dynamic for all of S11 only for it to seemingly change now. As to your last paragraph I always think Yaz, well Mandip, is the only one who really sells any of these adventures. Her reaction shots, her awe and the way things sink in to her, or pour out...it's perfect companion material. The idea that we see the world through the companions' eyes is one I still subscribe too yet I don't feel like I do with Graham or Ryan. For that reason I would love to see Yas solo with the Doctor to really get to shine. Yeah: Graham was the breakout companion for me last series. He felt like a real person while the others were just acting. He’s taken it back a bit this season while Yaz seems to be taking on more of the character moments. I got the same feeling as you during Spyfall and I think she could do a lot better, also.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 16:06:16 GMT
Watched it again tonight and enjoyed it a lot more. I don’t think that Kane or Bella deserved going back for, to be h9nest, so I’m ok with that decision. It made a lot more sense this time around and didn’t feel so rushed now that I knew where the beats were. Unfortunately, a lot of the audience aren’t going to do that so I’m going to stand by my original rating. The speech at the end still felt a little over the top, though, and I had some other thoughts: - are the production team trying to give us the idea that Yaz fancies Ryan? There were a couple of moments where I thought that she was jealous of Bella.- staying on Yaz: she seemed particularly disturbed by some aspects of the adventure and given her experiences in Spyfall 1 I’m thinking that we might not see her for much longer due to burnout. She seems to be taking what happens a lot more to heart than Graham or Ryan. I'd say that's clear from Spyfall's scene where she's relucant to give Ryan's number to her sister, then the camera lingers on her for a few seconds. Then when Ryan asks about her sister getting his number, she fobs him off and again it lingers on her. I hope it doesn't go that way honestly, not because I'm one of the "I don't want tomance in Doctor Who" brigade, far from it, just because the actors have zero chemistry in any romantic way and have clearly played a more brother-sister dynamic for all of S11 only for it to seemingly change now. As to your last paragraph I always think Yaz, well Mandip, is the only one who really sells any of these adventures. Her reaction shots, her awe and the way things sink in to her, or pour out...it's perfect companion material. The idea that we see the world through the companions' eyes is one I still subscribe too yet I don't feel like I get that with Graham or Ryan. For that reason I would love to see Yaz solo with the Doctor to really get to shine. There was a promise this year that Yaz would get more in the way of character development. Since this series began, she alone has begun to question The Doctor a lot more and, especially following her experiences in Skyfall, I am wondering if there is something big in store for her. I hope so because, as has been said, Mandip is a terrific actress and Yaz is very appealing - I hope has more in store for her than a relationship with Ryan (who I also like). It will be fun finding out what happens.
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Post by number13 on Jan 16, 2020 23:47:57 GMT
Good luck! I should give 'Love and Monsters' another go I suppose... Not to go too far OT but I like Love & Monsters quite a bit too, like Elka. I like the idea that we've seen done a lot now but was fresh then of taking a Who story from a different POV entirely. It needed someone with some cred to hold the screen and Marc Warren is one of the busiest TV workers in the UK over the past 20 years for a reason. He's terrific. Using ELO as the soundtrack, seeing Jackie from a totally different vantage point, Peter Kay totally getting the tone of the piece exactly right, and a really oddball pavement slab sex life joke that I love for it's audacity - it's so RTD. Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her and a good chunk of the Age Of Steel/Rise Of The Cybermen 2 parter (which I used to like but wow, does that not work now...) are a lot worse in that season alone in my book. Love & Monsters defender 4 life. Well Davy, I did watch L&M again and I agree with all the points you made. Thanks for sending me back in Time for a second chance.
I enjoyed it! Lots of fun but emotional moments too, very very different style of story and story-telling. I don't think I was 'ready' for a story like that as Who back in 2006, it wasn't "what 'Doctor Who' should be" ! That was, of course, before I'd experienced the range of BF showing what Doctor Who can be.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jan 17, 2020 0:42:35 GMT
Well.... that was genuinely bleak.
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Post by elkawho on Jan 19, 2020 13:15:35 GMT
Not to go too far OT but I like Love & Monsters quite a bit too, like Elka. I like the idea that we've seen done a lot now but was fresh then of taking a Who story from a different POV entirely. It needed someone with some cred to hold the screen and Marc Warren is one of the busiest TV workers in the UK over the past 20 years for a reason. He's terrific. Using ELO as the soundtrack, seeing Jackie from a totally different vantage point, Peter Kay totally getting the tone of the piece exactly right, and a really oddball pavement slab sex life joke that I love for it's audacity - it's so RTD. Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her and a good chunk of the Age Of Steel/Rise Of The Cybermen 2 parter (which I used to like but wow, does that not work now...) are a lot worse in that season alone in my book. Love & Monsters defender 4 life. Well Davy, I did watch L&M again and I agree with all the points you made. Thanks for sending me back in Time for a second chance.
I enjoyed it! Lots of fun but emotional moments too, very very different style of story and story-telling. I don't think I was 'ready' for a story like that as Who back in 2006, it wasn't "what 'Doctor Who' should be" ! That was, of course, before I'd experienced the range of BF showing what Doctor Who can be. Whoo hoo! Winning people over one by one. Glad you've changed your mind on this one.
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Post by mrperson on Jan 19, 2020 20:42:38 GMT
Also, boo @ page 1's speculations falling through.
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Post by number13 on Jan 20, 2020 12:15:14 GMT
Well Davy, I did watch L&M again and I agree with all the points you made. Thanks for sending me back in Time for a second chance.
I enjoyed it! Lots of fun but emotional moments too, very very different style of story and story-telling. I don't think I was 'ready' for a story like that as Who back in 2006, it wasn't "what 'Doctor Who' should be" ! That was, of course, before I'd experienced the range of BF showing what Doctor Who can be. Whoo hoo! Winning people over one by one. Glad you've changed your mind on this one. One touch and I was helplessly absorbed into 'Love and Monsters'...
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Feb 8, 2020 18:14:48 GMT
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Feb 8, 2020 18:48:23 GMT
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 15, 2020 14:55:10 GMT
28 days figure is 5.9 million. Man, Hime cannot catch a break.
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