Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2015 0:39:58 GMT
Hey everyone,
What did we think of Series 9/Season 34?
EDIT: Whoops, guys. I meant Series 9/Season 35.
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Post by omega on Dec 20, 2015 2:01:34 GMT
Solid but unremarkable. There wasn't much chemistry in what little we saw of Clara and Danny's relationship, and the thing it'll be remembered for is making the Master a woman.
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Post by kimalysong on Dec 20, 2015 2:08:26 GMT
Looking back on Season 8 I can only say Season 9 was a vast improvement.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2015 3:52:10 GMT
Sorry guys, I meant Series 9
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jan 11, 2016 15:53:30 GMT
I preferred 8 to 9 but still think as a pair they're probably the best two consecutive seasons we're had since the show came back.
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J.A. Prentice
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 12, 2016 4:09:41 GMT
I think it's easily the best season since the show came back. There wasn't a single actually bad episode for me. The worst I felt about a story was "The Girl Who Died," which was just OK. Capaldi is really just amazing and Heaven Sent is one of the best Doctor Who stories I've ever seen, heard, or read. Wait. Hang on. I blogged my opinion of it. Let me see what I said then. "Series: My favorite of the New Series. Capaldi’s worked his way up to being tied with McGann for my third favorite Doctor. Heaven Sent was one of the best Doctor Who episodes of all time. Face the Raven was also amazing. Really, the only weak link for me is The Girl Who Died and even that isn’t anywhere near the level of the worst episodes of previous seasons (Forest of the Night, Love and Monsters, Aliens of London, etc.) I’d probably give it a 9/10. Probably the best season not to have Tom Baker or Sylvester McCoy in it." I agree with Past Me. My discussions with a friend on each episode are available here just in case anyone cared. The show's definitely on a roll and I can't wait for Series 10. Whenever that will be.
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Post by omega on Jan 12, 2016 4:17:16 GMT
Series 9 was the best since series 5. The return to two parters was fantastic, allowing the stories to develop more organically and deeper than 45 minutes would allow and gave us some solid cliffhangers. Clara's departure didn't disappoint. It's a pity the experimental Sleep No More didn't resonate with the majority of the viewers, but I hope it doesn't put the production team off doing other experimental stories in future. We did get stories like Blink, Midnight and Turn Left out of the Doctor-lite episodes (or companion-lite).
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J.A. Prentice
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 12, 2016 5:02:23 GMT
It's a pity the experimental Sleep No More didn't resonate with the majority of the viewers, but I hope it doesn't put the production team off doing other experimental stories in future. We did get stories like Blink, Midnight and Turn Left out of the Doctor-lite episodes (or companion-lite). Agreed. I'd rather Doctor Who failed doing something bold than just turned out generic stories. Not that I thought Sleep No More was a failure. I'm one of the few who actually really liked it.
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Post by omega on Jan 12, 2016 5:35:18 GMT
It's a pity the experimental Sleep No More didn't resonate with the majority of the viewers, but I hope it doesn't put the production team off doing other experimental stories in future. We did get stories like Blink, Midnight and Turn Left out of the Doctor-lite episodes (or companion-lite). Agreed. I'd rather Doctor Who failed doing something bold than just turned out generic stories. Not that I thought Sleep No More was a failure. I'm one of the few who actually really liked it. I liked it too. It tried something different, and the twist at the end explained some of the narrative shortfalls and the fact that the footage is all relevant to the narrative. Sadly it was those narrative shortfalls that must have turned people off. The Firefly-esque Anglo-Asian society in the background was an interesting aspect. I bet that the scientist guy went into science because he utterly failed in Media Studies. The potential sequel Gatiss has been asked to write isn't going to get a lot of good hype, perhaps a novel might be a better place to do a sequel. A series of news and journal entries, like the Donald Cotton Target novelisations (The Romans, The Myth Makers, The Gunfighters).
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J.A. Prentice
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 12, 2016 6:11:43 GMT
Agreed. I'd rather Doctor Who failed doing something bold than just turned out generic stories. Not that I thought Sleep No More was a failure. I'm one of the few who actually really liked it. I liked it too. It tried something different, and the twist at the end explained some of the narrative shortfalls and the fact that the footage is all relevant to the narrative. Sadly it was those narrative shortfalls that must have turned people off. The Firefly-esque Anglo-Asian society in the background was an interesting aspect. I bet that the scientist guy went into science because he utterly failed in Media Studies. The potential sequel Gatiss has been asked to write isn't going to get a lot of good hype, perhaps a novel might be a better place to do a sequel. A series of news and journal entries, like the Donald Cotton Target novelisations (The Romans, The Myth Makers, The Gunfighters). That could be interesting. Lots of articles referring to a "Doctor" helping out, but only getting other people's perspectives of him and the events. I also found the society interesting, especially since most future societies in Doctor Who tend to be sort of generically English (partially for budgetary reasons, I suppose). I think the sequel is still going to happen, though, since Moffat and Gatiss don't seem too bothered by the reactions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 9:29:29 GMT
I liked it too. It tried something different, and the twist at the end explained some of the narrative shortfalls and the fact that the footage is all relevant to the narrative. Sadly it was those narrative shortfalls that must have turned people off. The Firefly-esque Anglo-Asian society in the background was an interesting aspect. I bet that the scientist guy went into science because he utterly failed in Media Studies. The potential sequel Gatiss has been asked to write isn't going to get a lot of good hype, perhaps a novel might be a better place to do a sequel. A series of news and journal entries, like the Donald Cotton Target novelisations (The Romans, The Myth Makers, The Gunfighters). That could be interesting. Lots of articles referring to a "Doctor" helping out, but only getting other people's perspectives of him and the events. I also found the society interesting, especially since most future societies in Doctor Who tend to be sort of generically English (partially for budgetary reasons, I suppose). I think the sequel is still going to happen, though, since Moffat and Gatiss don't seem too bothered by the reactions. Spot on with the budgetary stuff: The Seabase 4 crew in Warriors of the Deep were described in the script as hugely multicultural with races from both the East and the West acting as station personnel. Sadly, they couldn't go through with the idea because it just would have expended far more time and money than the production had allowed (whether it was deeply troubled or had fallen on more favourable climes). In contrast, the later books in the 1990s were able to pursue that line more thoroughly with one story even hinging on the fact that a supposed suicide victim is Muslim. The fact that he was murdered is found out because the knife used was placed in the wrong hand by his attacker. ~ Random ThoughtsSeries 9 was a mixed bag. I enjoyed it a lot more than I did its immediate predecessor, but there were a lot of missed opportunities that didn't get taken up by the writers for one reason or another. The season had a fairly solid opening with all the Moffat era tropes and cliché's on display in a way that doesn't short-change the audience (and made Missy probably one of the most fun characters to spend time with this entire season), while the last episode face-planted halfway through its runtime, so that the reintroduction of Gallifrey seems almost perfunctory. A nice worldbuilding episode in Face the Raven and guarded character study in Heaven Sent ruined by an ending that just couldn't stick the landing and had to go back to well-established formula of Clara being the centre of attention. Under the Lake was an excellent Part One/Part Two to a disappointingly humdrum conclusion in Before the Flood that put me to mind of a stumbling Pyramids of Mars pastiche, even if the Fisher King is an amazing looking creation. It should've gone the H.P. Lovecraft route with a fully populated base, only for each new character to be driven insane, suffering delusion and death. The same is true of other stories, for instance and despite a powerful and gripping ten minute conclusion, The Zygon Invasion/Inversion struggled and failed to do anything particularly shocking or challenging as its predecessors had done. I don't like doing this too often, but can you imagine how it all would have gone down if RTD had been behind the reigns? We would have had a seriously compelling two-parter that pushed the boundaries of the show. Although conversely, Heaven Sent has managed to punch its way straight into the handful of episodes that have blown me away since Matt Smith took over ( Vincent and the Doctor and The Snowmen, respectively), producing an intelligent and tautly scripted tale that reminded me how good Doctor Who can be if you stop playing it safe and delivered ground-breaking drama. The rest? The Girl Who Died, The Woman Who Loved and Sleep No More? I don't remember anything about them other than thinking Maisie Williams's Ashildr would have made for an interesting self-interested companion and that Jack Harkness would have a word with her for existential plagiarism. In conclusion, my opinion coming away from this season is that we've entered the second coming of the John Nathan-Turner tenure. For good and ill. There's a lot this season riding on nostalgia and picketed exclusively to longtime fans of the series ranging from a parade of returning elements in UNIT, the Master, the Daleks and Davros to poorly placed cameos of Cybermen to the overt return of the "Base-under-siege" formula. It's a season that's leeching off the show's preceding victories a bit too much to be seen as a bold return to form or even a grand new beginning. The Doctor is still smug, ineffectual and gloating (even exhibiting the quirks of his immediate predecessor), the current companion is still bland, self-centred, unsympathetic and fails to learn from her mistakes, death is met with the same slap on the wrist as an episode of Dragon Ball Z, the heroes are unrealistically treated as if they fix everything so there will never be another problem again rather than just trying to make other people's lives better, etc. What it does, it does to varying degrees of success and feels very much like a victim of current Hollywood trends by being little more than sequels and rehashes. It's a season trying to break new ground by going back to basics (and it should be lauded for that), but it's struggling against the old defects that have been dragging down other seasons too. The more things have changed, the more they've stayed the same. Still, they do get points for trying.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jan 12, 2016 13:45:56 GMT
I like experimental episodes. Sleep No More didn't work for me but it wasn't because it was experimental. However, it was my mate's favourite episode of the season. People like different things and DW needs to cater for different tastes. It's what I liked most about series eight - Don't Robot of Sherwood? Come back next week and get Listen? Don't like Listen? And so on... (And if your answer each week is 'no' then I'm not sure it's series eight's fault )
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 15:04:01 GMT
Series 9 was, I think, one of the strongest years of Who in its history. It had the confidence, the swagger to tell stories that we've really not seen anything like before. I know Sleep No More was a bit of a dud for some but was that because of the novel concept of the found footage? I don't think so. After all, everyone raved about Ep. 11's one hander and that's a far trickier concept to pull off so I don't think people disliked the idea that Who was experimenting as much as some would think. If I can adress post-Series 9 plans though... As DWM said, though, a million and a half viewers have gone AWOL between Series 8 and 9. The show still does good ratings but not great. As much as I loved Series 9, the show has to find a way to get those people back on board or at least make sure the slide is halted. An earlier timeslot would be the first move. I've long since advocated early 2017 to get it away from post-Strictly which means the show goes out too late for families or anyone heading out. The next move in happening anyway - a new "hook" - this time its a new companion. It's a chance for a clean slate, clean-ish canon and no-one should feel like they've missed anything vital. And never let whoever came up with "Same old, same old.." to be the marketing hook for the series work on Who again
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shutupbanks
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 13, 2016 14:48:05 GMT
I've said this elsewhere, but Series 9/35 made me feel like a fan again rather than just a person who still likes the show. I got excited about each episode rather than just the show returning for another year or a milestone like the 50th. Each episode had something interesting in it, even if they weren't perfect. And there were no outright duds. I thought it peaked with the Zygon 2-parter, but we got Heaven/ Hell at the end of the season. Heaven Sent is my tip for this year's Hugo. It was a brilliant mindf#ck of an episode.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 15:48:02 GMT
Series 9 was, I think, one of the strongest years of Who in its history. It had the confidence, the swagger to tell stories that we've really not seen anything like before. I know Sleep No More was a bit of a dud for some but was that because of the novel concept of the found footage? I don't think so. After all, everyone raved about Ep. 11's one hander and that's a far trickier concept to pull off so I don't think people disliked the idea that Who was experimenting as much as some would think. If I can adress post-Series 9 plans though... As DWM said, though, a million and a half viewers have gone AWOL between Series 8 and 9. The show still does good ratings but not great. As much as I loved Series 9, the show has to find a way to get those people back on board or at least make sure the slide is halted. An earlier timeslot would be the first move. I've long since advocated early 2017 to get it away from post-Strictly which means the show goes out too late for families or anyone heading out. The next move in happening anyway - a new "hook" - this time its a new companion. It's a chance for a clean slate, clean-ish canon and no-one should feel like they've missed anything vital. And never let whoever came up with "Same old, same old.." to be the marketing hook for the series work on Who again What were the Iplayer figures last year - don't they usually make up for any seemingly low figures?
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Post by CookieMaster on Jan 13, 2016 15:50:01 GMT
I felt it was a vast improvement on series 8, 7(minus Day of the Doctor) and 6, but couldn't top any of the first 5 series. Series 5 still remains my favourite of the Moffat era, and series 4 remains my favourite of the whole new series era.
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mrperson
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Post by mrperson on Jan 13, 2016 17:08:16 GMT
An improvement over 8, but not hugely.
I positively couldn't stand the episodes I didn't like in 8, whereas the episodes I didn't like in 9 didn't grate on me quite so much. There were fewer episodes I liked in S9, but the degree to which I liked them was generally a bit greater. I suppose I'm damning it with faint praise, but looking over the list of episodes, what can i say?
S8, positives Deep Breath Into the Dalek Time Heist Mummy Flatline
S9, positives: Under the Lake/Before the Flood (One of the best from the reboot, imo) Heaven Sent (One of the best in any format ever, imo) Zygon (somewhat positive)
However, S9 ended by giving me a bitter taste in the mouth, much as 8 did. - More or less completely ignored the significance of Gallifrey returning. - Ignored the remnants of the Time War weaponry, which was supposed to be one of the reasons it couldn't come back. - Ignored the Daleks just waiting to reignite the Time War whenever/wherever Gallifrey returned (again, the notion that they could fight a war across *ALL* of time and space, but somehow now they don't notice Gallifrey hiding in another point in time strikes me as an absurd proposition.....one that is necessary to accept if one wants to accept the episode's plot, but still absurd)
All this, to make it all about Clara again. Oh right, and giving her as much life as she wants to live before she has to report for execution; whereas she might only live to 80 normally, now she can take 8,000 years if it suits her.
Maybe it will look better once I got more distance from it....but at least I have Big Finish, which never manages to disappoint me like the reboot; not even in a complete dud episode like "The Dark Husband" (which themselves are extremely rare).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 17:14:02 GMT
Series 9 was, I think, one of the strongest years of Who in its history. It had the confidence, the swagger to tell stories that we've really not seen anything like before. I know Sleep No More was a bit of a dud for some but was that because of the novel concept of the found footage? I don't think so. After all, everyone raved about Ep. 11's one hander and that's a far trickier concept to pull off so I don't think people disliked the idea that Who was experimenting as much as some would think. If I can adress post-Series 9 plans though... As DWM said, though, a million and a half viewers have gone AWOL between Series 8 and 9. The show still does good ratings but not great. As much as I loved Series 9, the show has to find a way to get those people back on board or at least make sure the slide is halted. An earlier timeslot would be the first move. I've long since advocated early 2017 to get it away from post-Strictly which means the show goes out too late for families or anyone heading out. The next move in happening anyway - a new "hook" - this time its a new companion. It's a chance for a clean slate, clean-ish canon and no-one should feel like they've missed anything vital. And never let whoever came up with "Same old, same old.." to be the marketing hook for the series work on Who again What were the Iplayer figures last year - don't they usually make up for any seemingly low figures? Already talking about the final figures here, not the overnights. This is who watched it in the week: The Magician’s Apprentice 6.54m (final) The Witch’s Familiar 5.71m (final) Under the Lake 5.63m (final) Before the Flood 6.05m (final) 6.77m The Girl Who Died 6.56m (final) The Woman Who Lived 6.11m (final) The Zygon Invasion 5.76m (final) The Zygon Inversion 6.03m (final) Sleep No More 5.61m (final) Face the Raven 6.05m (final) Heaven Sent 6.19m (final) Hell Bent 6.17m (final) Series 8 to compare: Deep Breath 9.17m (final) Into the Dalek 7.29m (final) Robot of Sherwood 7.28m (final) Listen 7.01m (final) Time Heist 6.99m (final) The Caretaker 6.82m (final) Kill the Moon 6.91m (final) Mummy o/t Orient Express 7.11m (final) Flatline 6.71m (final) In the Forest of the Night 6.92m (final) Dark Water 7.34m (final) Death in Heaven 7.60m (final) As Doctor Who Magazine noted, the highest finals this year aren't even as good as the lowest last year. There are well over a million "missing" viewers from 2014 whichever way you slice it. The late timeslot and poor publicity are the most oft-quote reasons for this but if the show does come back in Spring '17 to its 7pm slot, we can assess whether that's true.
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mrperson
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Post by mrperson on Jan 13, 2016 19:38:35 GMT
What were the Iplayer figures last year - don't they usually make up for any seemingly low figures? Already talking about the final figures here, not the overnights. This is who watched it in the week: The Magician’s Apprentice 6.54m (final) The Witch’s Familiar 5.71m (final) Under the Lake 5.63m (final) Before the Flood 6.05m (final) 6.77m The Girl Who Died 6.56m (final) The Woman Who Lived 6.11m (final) The Zygon Invasion 5.76m (final) The Zygon Inversion 6.03m (final) Sleep No More 5.61m (final) Face the Raven 6.05m (final) Heaven Sent 6.19m (final) Hell Bent 6.17m (final) Series 8 to compare: Deep Breath 9.17m (final) Into the Dalek 7.29m (final) Robot of Sherwood 7.28m (final) Listen 7.01m (final) Time Heist 6.99m (final) The Caretaker 6.82m (final) Kill the Moon 6.91m (final) Mummy o/t Orient Express 7.11m (final) Flatline 6.71m (final) In the Forest of the Night 6.92m (final) Dark Water 7.34m (final) Death in Heaven 7.60m (final) As Doctor Who Magazine noted, the highest finals this year aren't even as good as the lowest last year. There are well over a million "missing" viewers from 2014 whichever way you slice it. The late timeslot and poor publicity are the most oft-quote reasons for this but if the show does come back in Spring '17 to its 7pm slot, we can assess whether that's true. Are those figures only aimed at those who watched it on TV, whether when it aired, on a rerun, or over something like DVR? Or do they include streaming services like Amazon, etc?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 20:14:16 GMT
It's anyone who legally watched it on a BBC platform that week, including streaming platforms, catchup, Sky+ and DVDr.
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