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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 3, 2022 0:30:53 GMT
Pick your Evil Dan quote of choice.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 3, 2022 1:10:35 GMT
I think someone upthread called this Chibnall’s best episode of Doctor Who and I have to agree. It was tightly plotted but still had a looseness to it that kept it fun & engaging but still managed to up the stakes as it moved along. I also think it was one of the few Dalek episodes from their long history with the series where they felt like a genuine menace. These were proper dangerous Daleks that I could believe were the methodical & murderous scourge of the universe. I will also loop back to a Flux comment I made that if this, and 5 out of 6 episodes of Flux, were what Chibnall had opened up with, a lot of people would probably have received his era of Who a lot more favorably at the start.
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Post by agentten on Jan 3, 2022 3:06:19 GMT
That was an absolute blast to watch! I just loved every second of it. As with Flux, once again the guest characters felt real and vital to the story and I felt instantly attached to them. They were made relatable and brought to life perfectly by their actors. The story hook was quite clever, doing Groundhog Day but with diminishing lengths of time and increasing numbers of Daleks made the tension rise throughout the episode to perfect pitches. Whittaker continued to be great and I continue to love Dan. The Doctor/Yaz subplot is clearly coming to a head and I'm curious how it will resolve. The Doctor has played her feelings quite close and I honestly can't tell if she reciprocates Yaz's feelings or not, but clearly it's reaching a boil. The Daleks were nicely intimidating and the Gatling gun blaster was so delightfully terrifying that I can't believe it's never been done before. The one thing that I'm still left wondering is what was wrong with the TARDIS in the first place that it needed to be rebooted. Is this part of the larger story, or just an excuse to create this episode? It certainly built up over the course of Flux so I assumed it was going to probably play a big role in the final hours of Whittaker's run, but now I'm not sure. I suppose we'll see. In all, though, I loved this special and definitely think it was the best of the three New Years specials this era has done.
Great joke with the "I am not Nick" line. Too funny, especially for us BF nerds.
Also, it gave us one of my favorite lines of this era:
Dalek: "THE DALEKS ANSWER TO NO ONE!"
Doctor: "The Daleks answer to me!"
Classic nemesis confrontation. Loved how forcefully the line was delivered.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jan 3, 2022 7:18:24 GMT
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Post by bonehead on Jan 3, 2022 10:45:55 GMT
It was ok, nothing ground-breaking another groundhog day type adventure but I'm bored of companions falling in love with The Doctor, Rose, Martha, Amy literally pounced on the poor ole Eleventh Doctor blah blah boring, Yaz I'm convinced will die saving the Doctor it'll be The Doctor i never told her how i felt scenarios. Why does every companion need to be human? Why not have a alien companion or somebody who's immoral travel with the Doctor & as time goes on the companions thoughts evolve or change for the better instead of this lovey dovey twaddle. Sea Devils next which has me excited. 2/5. Just to respond to your first point - yep, I agree the companion falling in love with the Doctor got pretty boring. For Amy, it was just a truly bizarre desire to get laid on the eve of her wedding - because she could. That did her character no favours for me. But unlike Rose and Martha, Yaz's feelings for the Doctor don't define her. That isn't her story - there is more about her than that. She's appeared in three series, and only now have her thoughts been made clear, and I must say I'm far more invested in where this strand will go. I just hope the writers don't dish out more heartbreak for her!
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jan 3, 2022 11:15:55 GMT
It was ok, nothing ground-breaking another groundhog day type adventure but I'm bored of companions falling in love with The Doctor, Rose, Martha, Amy literally pounced on the poor ole Eleventh Doctor blah blah boring, Yaz I'm convinced will die saving the Doctor it'll be The Doctor i never told her how i felt scenarios. Why does every companion need to be human? Why not have a alien companion or somebody who's immoral travel with the Doctor & as time goes on the companions thoughts evolve or change for the better instead of this lovey dovey twaddle. Sea Devils next which has me excited. 2/5. Just to respond to your first point - yep, I agree the companion falling in love with the Doctor got pretty boring. For Amy, it was just a truly bizarre desire to get laid on the eve of her wedding - because she could. That did her character no favours for me. But unlike Rose and Martha, Yaz's feelings for the Doctor don't define her. That isn't her story - there is more about her than that. She's appeared in three series, and only now have her thoughts been made clear, and I must say I'm far more invested in where this strand will go. I just hope the writers don't dish out more heartbreak for her! Yes I agree. Unlike previous romances it hasn't been one character just pining for the other, we have had Yaz be her own person & it has been allowed to develop as fans have speculated it would. Was it planned all along or is it fan service? Personally I don't care as it feels real (even the way it was revealed) & I am emotionally invested in what happens. & of course there is also the important issue of representation which is very welcome.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 3, 2022 11:49:25 GMT
It was ok, nothing ground-breaking another groundhog day type adventure but I'm bored of companions falling in love with The Doctor, Rose, Martha, Amy literally pounced on the poor ole Eleventh Doctor blah blah boring, Yaz I'm convinced will die saving the Doctor it'll be The Doctor i never told her how i felt scenarios. Why does every companion need to be human? Why not have a alien companion or somebody who's immoral travel with the Doctor & as time goes on the companions thoughts evolve or change for the better instead of this lovey dovey twaddle. Sea Devils next which has me excited. 2/5. Just to respond to your first point - yep, I agree the companion falling in love with the Doctor got pretty boring. For Amy, it was just a truly bizarre desire to get laid on the eve of her wedding - because she could. That did her character no favours for me. But unlike Rose and Martha, Yaz's feelings for the Doctor don't define her. That isn't her story - there is more about her than that. She's appeared in three series, and only now have her thoughts been made clear, and I must say I'm far more invested in where this strand will go.
I just hope the writers don't dish out more heartbreak for her! Interesting Take there I agree they didn't but this EP is now suddenly trying to make it the emotional core of Yaz and 13ths respective Arc with only 2 EPs left. Regards mark687
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jan 3, 2022 11:58:38 GMT
Just to respond to your first point - yep, I agree the companion falling in love with the Doctor got pretty boring. For Amy, it was just a truly bizarre desire to get laid on the eve of her wedding - because she could. That did her character no favours for me. But unlike Rose and Martha, Yaz's feelings for the Doctor don't define her. That isn't her story - there is more about her than that. She's appeared in three series, and only now have her thoughts been made clear, and I must say I'm far more invested in where this strand will go.
I just hope the writers don't dish out more heartbreak for her! Interesting Take there I agree they didn't but this EP is now suddenly trying to make it the emotional core of Yaz and 13ths respective Arc with only 2 EPs left. Regards mark687 I know people like to use the phrase Arc but sometimes it can just be a development of characters that we don't need to look back on & see as an Arc. There are no Arc's in real life. Although fandom has long believed in what has been confirmed on screen.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 3, 2022 12:15:19 GMT
Interesting Take there I agree they didn't but this EP is now suddenly trying to make it the emotional core of Yaz and 13ths respective Arc with only 2 EPs left. Regards mark687 I know people like to use the phrase Arc but sometimes it can just be a development of characters that we don't need to look back on & see as an Arc. There are no Arc's in real life. Although fandom has long believed in what has been confirmed on screen. Do you think this is a more naturally developed, necessary and believable emotional connection then previous new series Docs/Companions then? Regards mark687
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jan 3, 2022 12:31:13 GMT
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 3, 2022 13:22:59 GMT
It was ok, nothing ground-breaking another groundhog day type adventure but I'm bored of companions falling in love with The Doctor, Rose, Martha, Amy literally pounced on the poor ole Eleventh Doctor blah blah boring, Yaz I'm convinced will die saving the Doctor it'll be The Doctor i never told her how i felt scenarios. Why does every companion need to be human? Why not have a alien companion or somebody who's immoral travel with the Doctor & as time goes on the companions thoughts evolve or change for the better instead of this lovey dovey twaddle. Sea Devils next which has me excited. 2/5. Just to respond to your first point - yep, I agree the companion falling in love with the Doctor got pretty boring. For Amy, it was just a truly bizarre desire to get laid on the eve of her wedding - because she could. That did her character no favours for me.But unlike Rose and Martha, Yaz's feelings for the Doctor don't define her. That isn't her story - there is more about her than that. She's appeared in three series, and only now have her thoughts been made clear, and I must say I'm far more invested in where this strand will go. I just hope the writers don't dish out more heartbreak for her! I think you undersell the emotional core of what Moffat set up, Amy spent 10 or 12 years thinking about the Doctor. His appearance, disappearance and reappearance clearly had a severe affect on Amy’s mental health. I see her attempted seduction of the Doctor as an attempt by her to control the relationship by using the thing which gave her power, her physical attractiveness. I think there was a whole lot more there than just trying to do something because she could. As for Yaz and the Doctor’s feelings for each other….I think if CC had attempted to explore it earlier in the run he would have faced a huge backlash from the crowd which had already freaked out over the Doctor regenerating into a woman. I would think that if Flux had not been cut short that it probably would have gotten more time. Although the mattress on the floor of the TARDIS in episode one certainly implied they had become more intimate. Anyway, with two episodes left, yeah I think it gets explored in full a little too late in the game but I don’t think this is something he is just springing on the audience.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jan 3, 2022 13:44:47 GMT
I know people like to use the phrase Arc but sometimes it can just be a development of characters that we don't need to look back on & see as an Arc. There are no Arc's in real life. Although fandom has long believed in what has been confirmed on screen. Do you think this is a more naturally developed, necessary and believable emotional connection then previous new series Docs/Companions then? Regards mark687 Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 14:18:17 GMT
Just to respond to your first point - yep, I agree the companion falling in love with the Doctor got pretty boring. For Amy, it was just a truly bizarre desire to get laid on the eve of her wedding - because she could. That did her character no favours for me. But unlike Rose and Martha, Yaz's feelings for the Doctor don't define her. That isn't her story - there is more about her than that. She's appeared in three series, and only now have her thoughts been made clear, and I must say I'm far more invested in where this strand will go. I just hope the writers don't dish out more heartbreak for her! Yes I agree. Unlike previous romances it hasn't been one character just pining for the other, we have had Yaz be her own person & it has been allowed to develop as fans have speculated it would. Was it planned all along or is it fan service? Personally I don't care as it feels real (even the way it was revealed) & I am emotionally invested in what happens. & of course there is also the important issue of representation which is very welcome. And I think it has been planned for a while - who was the first to jump into the unknown before Ko Sharma even ended his speech in Timeless Children? Yaz. She was crossing into Gallifrey to save The Doctor while everyone else was standing still and Bradley asked"Who first?" - Yaz did not need to be asked. Who spent the year The Doctor was missing working IN a TARDIS trying to find a way to rescue her? Yaz. Who has a sister who wound her up about a boy liking her only to be met with awkward silence? Yaz. Who did not even think about leaving with Ryan and his Grandad for half a second before sayin she was 100% staying? Yaz. Who ran away from home for a still unexplained reason, very upset? Yaz. Too often the show not explicitly saying "X", is taken as "well, that came out of nowhere. This clearly has not - hence the "shippin" that has become popular between the two. Of course you can have it the other way where people read subtext that really does not appear to be there, we have seen that on the forum somewhat recently. But I think in this case, especially when this ep made it clear even Yaz was still somewhat lying to herself....its no accident or twist.
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Post by elkawho on Jan 3, 2022 14:34:26 GMT
Yes I agree. Unlike previous romances it hasn't been one character just pining for the other, we have had Yaz be her own person & it has been allowed to develop as fans have speculated it would. Was it planned all along or is it fan service? Personally I don't care as it feels real (even the way it was revealed) & I am emotionally invested in what happens. & of course there is also the important issue of representation which is very welcome. And I think it has been planned for a while - who was the first to jump into the unknown before Ko Sharma even ended his speech in Timeless Children? Yaz. She was crossing into Gallifrey to save The Doctor while everyone else was standing still and Bradley asked"Who first?" - Yaz did not need to be asked. Who spent the year The Doctor was missing working IN a TARDIS trying to find a way to rescue her? Yaz. Who has a sister who wound her up about a boy liking her only to be met with awkward silence? Yaz. Who did not even think about leaving with Ryan and his Grandad for half a second before sayin she was 100% staying? Yaz. Who ran away from home for a still unexplained reason, very upset? Yaz. Too often the show not explicitly saying "X", is taken as "well, that came out of nowhere. This clearly has not - hence the "shippin" that has become popular between the two. Of course you can have it the other way where people read subtext that really does not appear to be there, we have seen that on the forum somewhat recently. But I think in this case, especially when this ep made it clear even Yaz was still somewhat lying to herself....its no accident or twist. While I don't particularly like romance between The Doctor and their companion so I'm not happy about this direction for the characters, I agree that is has been set up for a long while.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 3, 2022 14:44:26 GMT
And I think it has been planned for a while - who was the first to jump into the unknown before Ko Sharma even ended his speech in Timeless Children? Yaz. She was crossing into Gallifrey to save The Doctor while everyone else was standing still and Bradley asked"Who first?" - Yaz did not need to be asked. Who spent the year The Doctor was missing working IN a TARDIS trying to find a way to rescue her? Yaz. Who has a sister who wound her up about a boy liking her only to be met with awkward silence? Yaz. Who did not even think about leaving with Ryan and his Grandad for half a second before sayin she was 100% staying? Yaz. Who ran away from home for a still unexplained reason, very upset? Yaz. Too often the show not explicitly saying "X", is taken as "well, that came out of nowhere. This clearly has not - hence the "shippin" that has become popular between the two. Of course you can have it the other way where people read subtext that really does not appear to be there, we have seen that on the forum somewhat recently. But I think in this case, especially when this ep made it clear even Yaz was still somewhat lying to herself....its no accident or twist. While I don't particularly like romance between The Doctor and their companion so I'm not happy about this direction for the characters, I agree that is has been set up for a long while. And while it may not be some folks' cup of tea, I certainly think there is value for young girls, who are at the age where they are figuring themselves out, seeing characters on a show they like dealing with similar feelings.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 3, 2022 16:57:29 GMT
And I think it has been planned for a while - who was the first to jump into the unknown before Ko Sharma even ended his speech in Timeless Children? Yaz. She was crossing into Gallifrey to save The Doctor while everyone else was standing still and Bradley asked"Who first?" - Yaz did not need to be asked. Who spent the year The Doctor was missing working IN a TARDIS trying to find a way to rescue her? Yaz. Who has a sister who wound her up about a boy liking her only to be met with awkward silence? Yaz. Who did not even think about leaving with Ryan and his Grandad for half a second before sayin she was 100% staying? Yaz. Who ran away from home for a still unexplained reason, very upset? Yaz. Too often the show not explicitly saying "X", is taken as "well, that came out of nowhere. This clearly has not - hence the "shippin" that has become popular between the two. Of course you can have it the other way where people read subtext that really does not appear to be there, we have seen that on the forum somewhat recently. But I think in this case, especially when this ep made it clear even Yaz was still somewhat lying to herself....its no accident or twist. While I don't particularly like romance between The Doctor and their companion so I'm not happy about this direction for the characters, I agree that is has been set up for a long while. And it is going to be over quick.
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Post by ollychops on Jan 3, 2022 17:16:21 GMT
Just to respond to your first point - yep, I agree the companion falling in love with the Doctor got pretty boring. For Amy, it was just a truly bizarre desire to get laid on the eve of her wedding - because she could. That did her character no favours for me. But unlike Rose and Martha, Yaz's feelings for the Doctor don't define her. That isn't her story - there is more about her than that. She's appeared in three series, and only now have her thoughts been made clear, and I must say I'm far more invested in where this strand will go.
I just hope the writers don't dish out more heartbreak for her! Interesting Take there I agree they didn't but this EP is now suddenly trying to make it the emotional core of Yaz and 13ths respective Arc with only 2 EPs left. Regards mark687 Yeah, suggesting that Martha’s character only boils down to her “pining after the Doctor” is a such disservice to Martha’s character. There’s far more to her than her crush on Ten.
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Post by bonehead on Jan 3, 2022 17:22:50 GMT
Interesting Take there I agree they didn't but this EP is now suddenly trying to make it the emotional core of Yaz and 13ths respective Arc with only 2 EPs left. Regards mark687 Yeah, suggesting that Martha’s character only boils down to her “pining after the Doctor” is a such disservice to Martha’s character. There’s far more to her than her crush on Ten. I don't suggest that was all Martha had to offer by any means. I loved her as a character, but I do feel her abiding character was that she liked/loved the Doctor in a way that wasn't returned. How she dealt with that and moved on showed great dignity and strength of character - but to me, that was her story. Yaz, by comparison, has had three series of adventure before her feelings were put into words.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 3, 2022 18:37:03 GMT
And while it may not be some folks' cup of tea, I certainly think there is value for young girls, who are at the age where they are figuring themselves out, seeing characters on a show they like dealing with similar feelings. This is why I consider the plot is actually offensive, since it can´t reasonably resolve as a normal and healthy relationship. It´s inevitably going to end in tragedy (unless Chibnall has the two move in together and travel on for decades till Yaz dies of old age). And even without the age/regeneration issue, the Doctor´s refusal to open up to Yaz and her insistence on lying about keeping secrets... it´s all just really pointlessly depressing.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jan 3, 2022 20:50:09 GMT
And while it may not be some folks' cup of tea, I certainly think there is value for young girls, who are at the age where they are figuring themselves out, seeing characters on a show they like dealing with similar feelings. This is why I consider the plot is actually offensive, since it can´t reasonably resolve as a normal and healthy relationship. It´s inevitably going to end in tragedy (unless Chibnall has the two move in together and travel on for decades till Yaz dies of old age). And even without the age/regeneration issue, the Doctor´s refusal to open up to Yaz and her insistence on lying about keeping secrets... it´s all just really pointlessly depressing. No more offensive than any other romantic relationship the doctor has had.
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