|
Post by thelonecenturion on Jun 18, 2022 18:27:19 GMT
Felt like an actual thread was needed for this. Big Finish's exact words are: Essentially, £19.99 for download/£24.99 for CD + download will remain the price for three-disc sets. What will change is the £16.99/£19.99 pre-order price. I've seen people complaining about this, but I genuinely don't understand why. Big Finish has always been expensive, but this works out at way better value than BF used to. 20 years ago, BF charged £13.99 for a two-disc CD release (around £21 in today's money). £24.99 for a three-disc set is obviously undeniably better value. It's not some sneaky way of increasing prices behind the curtain, the November price rise will literally just be to cope with increasing production costs. My guess is they'll adopt the Fugitive Doctor/Call Me Master model and pre-order prices will rise to £18.99/£22.99. While this is frustrating, I don't think it's a sign of BF being malicious at all. At the end of the day, they're a business, and they have to be cost-effective. I also don't buy the idea that the people who run BF don't know how to run a business - Jason Haigh-Ellery is extremely successful in multiple sectors, and one look at his website will confirm that. Rant over, but I can't believe people are being so harsh about this thing. It makes total sense and it's not like they're deliberately alienating fans.
|
|
|
Post by newt5996 on Jun 18, 2022 18:33:25 GMT
Felt like an actual thread was needed for this. Big Finish's exact words are: Essentially, £19.99 for download/£24.99 for CD + download will remain the price for three-disc sets. What will change is the £16.99/£19.99 pre-order price. I've seen people complaining about this, but I genuinely don't understand why. Big Finish has always been expensive, but this works out at way better value than BF used to. 20 years ago, BF charged £13.99 for a two-disc CD release (around £21 in today's money). £24.99 for a three-disc set is obviously undeniably better value. It's not some sneaky way of increasing prices behind the curtain, the November price rise will literally just be to cope with increasing production costs. My guess is they'll adopt the Fugitive Doctor/Call Me Master model and pre-order prices will rise to £18.99/£22.99. While this is frustrating, I don't think it's a sign of BF being malicious at all. At the end of the day, they're a business, and they have to be cost-effective. I also don't buy the idea that the people who run BF don't know how to run a business - Jason Haigh-Ellery is extremely successful in multiple sectors, and one look at his website will confirm that. Rant over, but I can't believe people are being so harsh about this thing. It makes total sense and it's not like they're deliberately alienating fans. I do hope that the Fugitive Doctor/Call Me Master pre-orders are the price point that the increase is going to be. My one worry is that they are going to increase as well, which I wouldn't really like since they haven't had release dates announced so I haven't actually preordered.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jun 18, 2022 19:32:20 GMT
It makes total sense if they didn’t have any existing issues with their pricing currently. People are looking at it too simplistically and so siloed, disregarding anything other than accepting prices are increasing everywhere. Of course they are, we all know that, but it doesn’t mean continuing to increase prices is the solution when they’re leaking money in other areas.
There are so many different factors beyond comparing a product from 2002 to 2022 and saying it’s better value for money. Different markets, different types of products, different sales of products, etc. It’s not like we’ve not seen cost cutting or price rises in recent years anyway, of which could’ve potentially been avoided by addressing existing issues.
And dare I ask what are these rising costs specifically for Big Finish that can’t be addressed by resolving their issues. They still appear to be doing the majority of recording remote, they’re presumably not doing the lunches anymore, I’d guess that they’re not paying people in line with inflation, etc. They can’t even confirm what the prices are going to for gods sake. And we’re supposed to just accept what they’re doing at face value despite all of the above and their past performance? Or be told we shouldn’t question it? Or believe that they’ve not just blindly decided to increase the prices?
Sort the overseas pricing and charges out. Review the pricing structure and release methods of ranges. Don’t just carry on as you are and expect the customer to foot the bill. If all of that has been done and they still feel alterations need to be made, then fair enough, be transparent about it, not just hope we’ll roll over and accept it.
It baffles me that people can’t see the bigger picture and are happy to take Big Finish’s word every single time. They produce some cracking stuff, but Haigh-Ellery, Briggs & Richardson et al aren’t our mates, you know.
|
|
|
Post by theother on Jun 18, 2022 19:46:01 GMT
Am I the only one missing something? I see a number of people mentioned that it's just the pre-order prices that are going up. But I don't see where it says that. It sounds like the prices on the CD and downloads are going up. Am I incorrect?
|
|
|
Post by cwm on Jun 18, 2022 20:01:15 GMT
And dare I ask what are these rising costs specifically for Big Finish that can’t be addressed by resolving their issues. They still appear to be doing the majority of recording remote, they’re presumably not doing the lunches anymore, I’d guess that they’re not paying people in line with inflation, etc. They can’t even confirm what the prices are going to for gods sake. And we’re supposed to just accept what they’re doing at face value despite all of the above and their past performance? Or be told we shouldn’t question it? Or believe that they’ve not just blindly decided to increase the prices? It was mentioned as early as 2020 that remote recording isn't necessarily cheaper, and I don't see what your evidence is for "the majority of recording is still being done remotely" anyway - apart from special cases such as Tom a good deal of output appears to be being done in-studio or as a hybrid - only looking at stuff out between now and November the Seventh Doctor Adventures, the Torchwood monthlies, The War Master, UNIT Brave New World, the Second Doctor Adventures, Classic Doctors New Monsters, The Diary of River Song, the Sixth Doctor Adventures, the Ninth Doctor Adventures, Gallifrey, UFO, Tenth Doctor Classic Companions, Benny, Unbound, Master!, The Dimension Cannon and Shilling and Sixpence were all done entirely or at least partly in studio. In fact the ONLY releases that were done wholly remotely are Out of Time (done two years ago), Dorian Gray and Forty 2. Electricity and heating are more expensive so obviously that's going to have an effect on how much the studio time costs. BF are not a huge company, and they sell a niche product - what possible motivation do they have to increase prices and risk losing sales if they don't absolutely have to? I find your hysterical anger about this subject bizarre and entirely unjustified.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jun 18, 2022 20:19:54 GMT
And dare I ask what are these rising costs specifically for Big Finish that can’t be addressed by resolving their issues. They still appear to be doing the majority of recording remote, they’re presumably not doing the lunches anymore, I’d guess that they’re not paying people in line with inflation, etc. They can’t even confirm what the prices are going to for gods sake. And we’re supposed to just accept what they’re doing at face value despite all of the above and their past performance? Or be told we shouldn’t question it? Or believe that they’ve not just blindly decided to increase the prices? It was mentioned as early as 2020 that remote recording isn't necessarily cheaper, and I don't see what your evidence is for "the majority of recording is still being done remotely" anyway - apart from special cases such as Tom a good deal of output appears to be being done in-studio or as a hybrid - only looking at stuff out between now and November the Seventh Doctor Adventures, the Torchwood monthlies, The War Master, UNIT Brave New World, the Second Doctor Adventures, Classic Doctors New Monsters, The Diary of River Song, the Sixth Doctor Adventures, the Ninth Doctor Adventures, Gallifrey, UFO, Tenth Doctor Classic Companions, Benny, Unbound, Master!, The Dimension Cannon and Shilling and Sixpence were all done entirely or at least partly in studio. In fact the ONLY releases that were done wholly remotely are Out of Time (done two years ago), Dorian Gray and Forty 2. Electricity and heating are more expensive so obviously that's going to have an effect on how much the studio time costs. BF are not a huge company, and they sell a niche product - what possible motivation do they have to increase prices and risk losing sales if they don't absolutely have to? I find your hysterical anger about this subject bizarre and entirely unjustified. I was basing the remote recording based on the photos that accompany the recent releases, although I do acknowledge that much of these will have been done in lockdown and aren’t recently recorded. Although it’s quite telling that you find what I’m saying bizarre and unjustified, yet you cannot acknowledge any of the other points I’ve made and evidence provided that there are other ways and means of avoiding or mitigating price rises. They have past form for these types of interactions with customers and their complete lack of understanding of what should be basic business. Based on their handling I don’t think they’ll believe they’ll see a decrease in sales, they’ll think we will just accept it. And based on some of the response here, it seems they’re right. I mean if you’re happy to just accept it, then fair enough. What I find bizarre is that you’re happy to take their word for it, despite the lack of resolution of issues where they’re plainly losing money. How you can justify them thinking the solution is to just charge us more is beyond me. Mind you, it’s this type of mentality and acceptance that causes much bigger issues in the country and the world, so to see the same over rising costs of some audios shouldn’t surprise me.
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 18, 2022 20:29:54 GMT
And dare I ask what are these rising costs specifically for Big Finish that can’t be addressed by resolving their issues. They still appear to be doing the majority of recording remote, they’re presumably not doing the lunches anymore, I’d guess that they’re not paying people in line with inflation, etc. They can’t even confirm what the prices are going to for gods sake. And we’re supposed to just accept what they’re doing at face value despite all of the above and their past performance? Or be told we shouldn’t question it? Or believe that they’ve not just blindly decided to increase the prices? It was mentioned as early as 2020 that remote recording isn't necessarily cheaper, and I don't see what your evidence is for "the majority of recording is still being done remotely" anyway - apart from special cases such as Tom a good deal of output appears to be being done in-studio or as a hybrid - only looking at stuff out between now and November the Seventh Doctor Adventures, the Torchwood monthlies, The War Master, UNIT Brave New World, the Second Doctor Adventures, Classic Doctors New Monsters, The Diary of River Song, the Sixth Doctor Adventures, the Ninth Doctor Adventures, Gallifrey, UFO, Tenth Doctor Classic Companions, Benny, Unbound, Master!, The Dimension Cannon and Shilling and Sixpence were all done entirely or at least partly in studio. In fact the ONLY releases that were done wholly remotely are Out of Time (done two years ago), Dorian Gray and Forty 2. Electricity and heating are more expensive so obviously that's going to have an effect on how much the studio time costs. BF are not a huge company, and they sell a niche product - what possible motivation do they have to increase prices and risk losing sales if they don't absolutely have to? I find your hysterical anger about this subject bizarre and entirely unjustified.First off, it is interesting that you equate fairly benign criticism with hysterical anger. Who are you, Nick Briggs? Based on BF’s past mistakes and ham-fisted way of responding to said mistakes, I don’t think any of his questions are out of bounds. Yes, most of us love most of the content Big Finish produces but as any long timer can tell you, Big Finish make some truly bone-headed blunders. Like when they suddenly realized after several years they were losing their asses on shipping and reacted in such a way that they alienated a lot of their loyal listeners. And you know what? We don’t have to be told BF is a small company or that they produce a luxury & niche product. We’re the ones on a message dedicated to discussing Big Finish.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 20:32:18 GMT
I think my point from the That Bad? thread is being backed up.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jun 18, 2022 20:42:34 GMT
It was mentioned as early as 2020 that remote recording isn't necessarily cheaper, and I don't see what your evidence is for "the majority of recording is still being done remotely" anyway - apart from special cases such as Tom a good deal of output appears to be being done in-studio or as a hybrid - only looking at stuff out between now and November the Seventh Doctor Adventures, the Torchwood monthlies, The War Master, UNIT Brave New World, the Second Doctor Adventures, Classic Doctors New Monsters, The Diary of River Song, the Sixth Doctor Adventures, the Ninth Doctor Adventures, Gallifrey, UFO, Tenth Doctor Classic Companions, Benny, Unbound, Master!, The Dimension Cannon and Shilling and Sixpence were all done entirely or at least partly in studio. In fact the ONLY releases that were done wholly remotely are Out of Time (done two years ago), Dorian Gray and Forty 2. Electricity and heating are more expensive so obviously that's going to have an effect on how much the studio time costs. BF are not a huge company, and they sell a niche product - what possible motivation do they have to increase prices and risk losing sales if they don't absolutely have to? I find your hysterical anger about this subject bizarre and entirely unjustified.First off, it is interesting that you equate fairly benign criticism with hysterical anger. Who are you, Nick Briggs? Based on BF’s past mistakes and ham-fisted way of responding to said mistakes, I don’t think any of his questions are out of bounds. Yes, most of us love most of the content Big Finish produces but as any long timer can tell you, Big Finish make some truly bone-headed blunders. Like when they suddenly realized after several years they were losing their asses on shipping and reacted in such a way that they alienated a lot of their loyal listeners. And you know what? We don’t have to be told BF is a small company or that they produce a luxury & niche product. We’re the ones on a message dedicated to discussing Big Finish. Spot on. I spend a lot of money with Big Finish. On the whole I love the product and I spend a lot of time listening and putting my thoughts together and always find something positive to say about the product. As you say, being a long timer means you see their blunders and ways they could improve and in this case mitigate their costs. If people can bury their heads, view everything independently and accept everything Big Finish say, then that’s their prerogative. I don’t believe I’ve said anything out of line or particularly said anything that isn’t true or cannot be pointed back to things that Big Finish have done or caused themselves. If anything the outbursts questioning why we should question the price rises are what's hysterical.
|
|
|
Post by ollychops on Jun 18, 2022 20:51:47 GMT
Am I the only one missing something? I see a number of people mentioned that it's just the pre-order prices that are going up. But I don't see where it says that. It sounds like the prices on the CD and downloads are going up. Am I incorrect? Yeah… my take away was that we weren’t going to be getting as much of a pre-order discount as we do currently but I feel like I’m wrong which is why I haven’t really commented on the situation so far.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jun 18, 2022 21:04:11 GMT
The pre-order prices are the product prices. They’re where the vast majority of the sales are come for and they will be priced taking the free postage and profit margin into account. The inflated price a couple of months following release exist to make sales look like a substantial saving and to presumably be able to sell to other retailers at similar prices to what we pay at pre-order as customers, rather than substantially less if they were to get retailers selling at £25 on CD.
An increase to them is a price increase, even if CDs remained at £35 or whatever, it isn’t a continued saving or discount. If someone is unfortunate enough to pay that inflated price it’s just additional profit for Big Finish on top of the profit margins they’ve already applied.
Don’t be fooled.
|
|
|
Post by cwm on Jun 18, 2022 21:07:27 GMT
It was mentioned as early as 2020 that remote recording isn't necessarily cheaper, and I don't see what your evidence is for "the majority of recording is still being done remotely" anyway - apart from special cases such as Tom a good deal of output appears to be being done in-studio or as a hybrid - only looking at stuff out between now and November the Seventh Doctor Adventures, the Torchwood monthlies, The War Master, UNIT Brave New World, the Second Doctor Adventures, Classic Doctors New Monsters, The Diary of River Song, the Sixth Doctor Adventures, the Ninth Doctor Adventures, Gallifrey, UFO, Tenth Doctor Classic Companions, Benny, Unbound, Master!, The Dimension Cannon and Shilling and Sixpence were all done entirely or at least partly in studio. In fact the ONLY releases that were done wholly remotely are Out of Time (done two years ago), Dorian Gray and Forty 2. Electricity and heating are more expensive so obviously that's going to have an effect on how much the studio time costs. BF are not a huge company, and they sell a niche product - what possible motivation do they have to increase prices and risk losing sales if they don't absolutely have to? I find your hysterical anger about this subject bizarre and entirely unjustified.First off, it is interesting that you equate fairly benign criticism with hysterical anger They are literally accusing BF of lying about their motivations for increasing prices.
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 18, 2022 21:28:06 GMT
First off, it is interesting that you equate fairly benign criticism with hysterical anger They are literally accusing BF of lying about their motivations for increasing prices. I would point out the use of question marks in Shallcatop’s post. As has been noted several times, Big Finish has a proven track record of not doing due diligence when it comes to their business practices, with that in mind are you really saying we, the consumers, aren’t allowed to ask questions? And that by asking questions we are being hysterical? I know a lot of different businesses are hurting in this current economic climate and that an increase in prices need to be passed down to consumers and I also know there are a lot of different businesses that are using the current economic climate as cover to raise prices just because. I don’t think Big Finish is BIG OIL but we also know from experience that Big Finish inflicts a lot of economic wounds upon themselves. We have the right to ask questions no matter the perceived implications of those questions.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jun 18, 2022 21:29:32 GMT
First off, it is interesting that you equate fairly benign criticism with hysterical anger They are literally accusing BF of lying about their motivations for increasing prices. If you think listing points and questions that should be addressed based on existing issues and past performances are accusations of lying, then that’s your prerogative. It’s more telling that you want to say that rather than actually engage in discussion or acknowledge what’s been posed. It’s a bit confusing to me really that you’re being so defensive of paying more and happy to not question it; Nick Briggs isn’t going to invite you to the studio recordings, you know.
|
|
lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
|
Post by lidar2 on Jun 18, 2022 22:22:00 GMT
The pre-order prices are the product prices. They’re where the vast majority of the sales are come for and they will be priced taking the free postage and profit margin into account. The inflated price a couple of months following release exist to make sales look like a substantial saving and to presumably be able to sell to other retailers at similar prices to what we pay at pre-order as customers, rather than substantially less if they were to get retailers selling at £25 on CD. An increase to them is a price increase, even if CDs remained at £35 or whatever, it isn’t a continued saving or discount. If someone is unfortunate enough to pay that inflated price it’s just additional profit for Big Finish on top of the profit margins they’ve already applied. Don’t be fooled. True. The BF full price on their website is basically a list price only and, as anyone who has ever worked in wholesale/distribution/retail will tell you, no one ever pays list price.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Jun 18, 2022 23:05:22 GMT
Sorry so the general conciseness is that Pre Oder Prices will increase but the current Post Release Price won't? I read it as both were going up, (as in it effects anything Announced for pre order that's due to be Released and if bought AFTER October 31st 2022.If its just Pre Orders it makes even less sense that they haven't stated the new figures (plus just Pre Orders wouldn't help much because currently there's only a £2-£5 difference on a DL Only and a CD+DL Pre Order.)
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 18, 2022 23:10:44 GMT
Sorry so the general conciseness is that Pre Oder Prices will increase but the current Post Release Price won't? I read it as both were going up, if its just Pre Oders it makes even less sense that they haven't stated the new figures. Regards mark687 Exactly. Press announcements or alerts about business matters should resolve & answer questions not raise more questions and cause additional confusion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 5:14:20 GMT
Sorry so the general conciseness is that Pre Oder Prices will increase but the current Post Release Price won't? I read it as both were going up, (as in it effects anything Announced for pre order that's due to be Released and if bought AFTER October 31st 2022.If its just Pre Orders it makes even less sense that they haven't stated the new figures (plus just Pre Orders wouldn't help much because currently there's only a £2-£5 difference on a DL Only and a CD+DL Pre Order.) Regards mark687 I dont know where Lone Centurion found the OP idea that the £24.99 will remain at all in: "Due to increased production and supply costs, the price of forthcoming collector’s edition CD and download box sets (and associated bundles) will soon be adjusted in order to safeguard our ability to continue producing the stories listeners love. However, no product price increases will come into effect until 01 November 2022 and none of these will affect the cost of already-released box sets. In short: if you would like to pre-order forthcoming releases at 2022 prices, you should do so before this date." That to me says the opposite. Yes, the currently release (as of October 31st) ones will be the same price, but after that - £24.99 is probably on the increase. But once more...it is no-one here who is dense, or misunderstanding - its BFs total lack of clarity and failure to even sound like they know with the "I believe...." response to tweets.
|
|
|
Post by thelonecenturion on Jun 19, 2022 7:14:21 GMT
Sorry so the general conciseness is that Pre Oder Prices will increase but the current Post Release Price won't? I read it as both were going up, (as in it effects anything Announced for pre order that's due to be Released and if bought AFTER October 31st 2022.If its just Pre Orders it makes even less sense that they haven't stated the new figures (plus just Pre Orders wouldn't help much because currently there's only a £2-£5 difference on a DL Only and a CD+DL Pre Order.) Regards mark687 I dont know where Lone Centurion found the OP idea that the £24.99 will remain at all in: "Due to increased production and supply costs, the price of forthcoming collector’s edition CD and download box sets (and associated bundles) will soon be adjusted in order to safeguard our ability to continue producing the stories listeners love. However, no product price increases will come into effect until 01 November 2022 and none of these will affect the cost of already-released box sets. In short: if you would like to pre-order forthcoming releases at 2022 prices, you should do so before this date." That to me says the opposite. Yes, the currently release (as of October 31st) ones will be the same price, but after that - £24.99 is probably on the increase. But once more...it is no-one here who is dense, or misunderstanding - its BFs total lack of clarity and failure to even sound like they know with the "I believe...." response to tweets. The news announcement said about pre-ordering at current prices, and there was this tweet:So yes, it wasn't very clear. Sorry if I've ended up getting that wrong.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 12:52:17 GMT
I dont know where Lone Centurion found the OP idea that the £24.99 will remain at all in: "Due to increased production and supply costs, the price of forthcoming collector’s edition CD and download box sets (and associated bundles) will soon be adjusted in order to safeguard our ability to continue producing the stories listeners love. However, no product price increases will come into effect until 01 November 2022 and none of these will affect the cost of already-released box sets. In short: if you would like to pre-order forthcoming releases at 2022 prices, you should do so before this date." That to me says the opposite. Yes, the currently release (as of October 31st) ones will be the same price, but after that - £24.99 is probably on the increase. But once more...it is no-one here who is dense, or misunderstanding - its BFs total lack of clarity and failure to even sound like they know with the "I believe...." response to tweets. The news announcement said about pre-ordering at current prices, and there was this tweet: So yes, it wasn't very clear. Sorry if I've ended up getting that wrong. No, not at all - like I said - the fact we even CAN have a different read is a total failure in communication. Till November - no increases Post October - all new releases increased (we dont know to what) for even announced but not released items. That seems to be the idea. And a hell of a smashing way to pick up panic buy orders in the next few months! But there is no way they do not know what the prices should be - if they have found the current structure is not cost effective, then must know what would be - that is simple economics.
|
|