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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 29, 2022 16:36:10 GMT
Having watched the 2009 original after massive hype I have to say I found the film to be just okay, groundbreaking visuals perhaps but the story has been done better many times before, it felt dangerously close to Dances with Wolves. The alien race was far too cute for my liking and the story shallow and bland.
A much better take on humans travelling to an alien world is the show Raised by Wolves, the main reason I'm starting this thread is because it pains me that a dark, intelligent and challenging show like Raised by Wolves gets cancelled yet James Cameron is aloud to continue spoon feeding us the hollow warm mush that is the Avatar franchise!
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Post by grinch on Dec 29, 2022 16:41:13 GMT
I mean, I enjoyed it at the time and it was fairly revolutionary in terms of 3-D but I haven’t watched it since it was first on. Not to mention, I hardly thought the world of Pandora was interesting enough to build not just one but several sequels off.
Mind you, this is coming from someone who hasn’t watched the sequel.
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Post by timleschild on Dec 29, 2022 17:24:07 GMT
Yes. & yes.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 29, 2022 17:42:04 GMT
Well. I have now seen both movies, I went to see both in all their 3d splendor. They are amazing, impressive looking and very beautiful to look at. However. The stories themselves.... I am sad to say, but they are recycled. When I watched part one, it was pretty much a carbon copy of "Dances with Wolves", just with blue people instead of Lakota. And part 2? I just waited for the first person to shout "The Spice must flow!" They even have "spice by a different name", and sandworms are subsituted by space whales. And after I saw that shiny new city of the Earthling invaders.... that just screams for a "Dune Moment" where the hero rides into town on a giant (insert fitting sandworm equivalent here) and smwashes down the walls. Since that scene was missing in part 2, not hard to guess that this moment will be part of another sequel.
So is this overrated? Visually, it is amazing and a real spectacle and a feast for the eyes. That is certainly not overrated. But the story? There is nothing new, or fresh, or original about it! Sad to say, but it feels stale and recycled and other books and movies have done it better before.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 29, 2022 17:44:40 GMT
Sorry if my post was overly bitchy, I'd just read about Raised by Wolves getting cancelled, I really liked that show and was hoping at least for a final season and then read that Avatar has about 4 sequals planned, just felt so unfair.
It seems like for every Blade Runner there's 10 Fast and Furious movies. Oh well life goes on.
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Post by timleschild on Dec 29, 2022 17:58:33 GMT
Sorry if my post was overly bitchy, I'd just read about Raised by Wolves getting cancelled, I really liked that show and was hoping at least for a final season and then read that Avatar has about 4 sequals planned, just felt so unfair. It seems like for every Blade Runner there's 10 Fast and Furious movies. Oh well life goes on. Mainstream blockbuster cinema doesn't like intelligence just stupid cartoony crap
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 29, 2022 18:04:30 GMT
Sorry if my post was overly bitchy, I'd just read about Raised by Wolves getting cancelled, I really liked that show and was hoping at least for a final season and then read that Avatar has about 4 sequals planned, just felt so unfair. It seems like for every Blade Runner there's 10 Fast and Furious movies. Oh well life goes on. Well, I do not think you came across as bitchy. I understand what you are getting at, even if I do not know the series you refer to.
I also find it sad when something original and creative and weird is overshadowed or replaced or financially starved or pushed out of the market or gobbled up by an entertainment giant. This is why I have such trepitations about the new connections of Who to Disney. Very apprehensive. To say it in the words of Peter Davison "Nothing wobbles! I love a good wobble!" I do not mind wobbly sets, bubble-wrap aliens (Arc in Space), bad CGI and cheap looking space-ship models.
If the story is great and the characters are well written and if the wobbly set and wonky costumes are crafted with care and love.
For all the shiny effects in Avatar- the whole thing just feels hollow.
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Post by Digi on Dec 29, 2022 19:12:31 GMT
I hated the first one. One of vanishingly few movies where I came out of the cinema actually angry at having wasted two and a half hours of my life. On Pocahontas with CGI Smurfs. Still sticks in my craw that it's the highest-grossing film of all time. A year or two ago I decided, well, it's been over a decade, maybe I'll have warmed to it and I'll actually enjoy it this time.
...nope. Still awful. Drives me crazy that James Cameron -- a truly talented filmmaker -- has chosen to waste ~15 years (and counting) on this. Just imagine...we could've had True Lies 2, or any number of terrific Cameron films. Instead we got a bloated ripoff of a Disney kids' movie (with a script so lazy they didn't even bother to change the placeholder word "unobtainium").
Technically/VFX, yes, it's a phenomenal achievement. But when I want to watch a good movie, I'm not going to put on a glorified tech demo.
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Post by grinch on Dec 29, 2022 19:19:59 GMT
I hated the first one. One of vanishingly few movies where I came out of the cinema actually angry at having wasted two and a half hours of my life Pocahontas with CGI Smurfs. Still sticks in my craw that it's the highest-grossing film of all time. A year or two ago I decided, well, it's been over a decade, maybe I'll have warmed to it and I'll actually enjoy it this time.
...nope. Still awful. Drives me crazy that James Cameron -- a truly talented filmmaker -- has chosen to waste ~15 years (and counting) on this. Just imagine...we could've had True Lies 2, or any number of terrific Cameron films. Instead we got a bloated ripoff of a Disney kids' movie (with a script so lazy they didn't even bother to change the placeholder word "unobtainium").
Technically/VFX, yes, it's a phenomenal achievement. But when I want to watch a good movie, I'm not going to put on a glorified tech demo.
...Blimey, is it really still the highest grossing film of all time? Not that I’m doubting you or anything but I’m honestly surprised it hasn’t been beaten by one of the Avengers films or something.
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Post by Digi on Dec 29, 2022 19:22:12 GMT
I hated the first one. One of vanishingly few movies where I came out of the cinema actually angry at having wasted two and a half hours of my life Pocahontas with CGI Smurfs. Still sticks in my craw that it's the highest-grossing film of all time. A year or two ago I decided, well, it's been over a decade, maybe I'll have warmed to it and I'll actually enjoy it this time.
...nope. Still awful. Drives me crazy that James Cameron -- a truly talented filmmaker -- has chosen to waste ~15 years (and counting) on this. Just imagine...we could've had True Lies 2, or any number of terrific Cameron films. Instead we got a bloated ripoff of a Disney kids' movie (with a script so lazy they didn't even bother to change the placeholder word "unobtainium").
Technically/VFX, yes, it's a phenomenal achievement. But when I want to watch a good movie, I'm not going to put on a glorified tech demo.
...Blimey, is it really still the highest grossing film of all time? Not that I’m doubting you or anything but I’m honestly surprised it hasn’t been beaten by one of the Avengers films or something. Yup. Endgame came close (it may even have taken the throne, briefly), but Avatar still holds it/holds it again. They've given it several cinematic re-releases that have helped keep it at the top.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Dec 29, 2022 19:35:49 GMT
...Blimey, is it really still the highest grossing film of all time? Not that I’m doubting you or anything but I’m honestly surprised it hasn’t been beaten by one of the Avengers films or something. Yup. Endgame came close (it may even have taken the throne, briefly), but Avatar still holds it/holds it again. They've given it several cinematic re-releases that have helped keep it at the top. YES.. That's my bugbear. Cameron's ego is so huge, he keeps re releasing Avatar (3-4 times so far)..
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 29, 2022 19:50:40 GMT
Sorry if my post was overly bitchy, I'd just read about Raised by Wolves getting cancelled, I really liked that show and was hoping at least for a final season and then read that Avatar has about 4 sequals planned, just felt so unfair. It seems like for every Blade Runner there's 10 Fast and Furious movies. Oh well life goes on. Well, I do not think you came across as bitchy. I understand what you are getting at, even if I do not know the series you refer to.
I also find it sad when something original and creative and weird is overshadowed or replaced or financially starved or pushed out of the market or gobbled up by an entertainment giant. This is why I have such trepitations about the new connections of Who to Disney. Very apprehensive. To say it in the words of Peter Davison "Nothing wobbles! I love a good wobble!" I do not mind wobbly sets, bubble-wrap aliens (Arc in Space), bad CGI and cheap looking space-ship models.
If the story is great and the characters are well written and if the wobbly set and wonky costumes are crafted with care and love.
For all the shiny effects in Avatar- the whole thing just feels hollow.
Absolutely agree, I'm a bit apprehensive about Disney too. One thing I've loved about Doctor Who and Big Finish is that a lot of people working behind the scenes are fans and have grown up loving the show. I worry that with Disney the element of love and care could diminish. The worry that keeps coming back to me is this; BBC: Thanks for the extra money towards the budget. Disney: Your welcome, now about this cast list, we want Dwanye Johnson to be the next Doctor. BBC: Hang on a minute, that's not part of the deal, you get distribution only. Disney: sure, sure, just a suggestion but perhaps we should discuss how prominently we advertise the show on Disney plus and I think we were a bit hasty with our budget contribution. BBC: Okay, okay, perhaps we can consider Dwanye Johnson. Disney: Excellent, now this list of writers and directors, we've not heard of any of them. We want JJ Abrams. BBC: Okay but make sure you keep pumping money into the budget. JJ Abrams: Hey guys, this TARDIS thing, I'm gonna redesign, from now on it's a massive battle cruiser and this Doctor, I think they should kick ass more often, instead of a sonic screwdriver let's have a sonic bazooka. Fans: This isn't our show anymore, let's be content with the old episodes and count our losses. Casual viewers: This makes no sense and everyone on the Internet says its rubbish, we're not watching. Disney: Hey BBC, the shows tanking, we're out. BBC: The shows ruined, we've no idea how to fix this. Let's put it on hiatus for 20 years.
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Post by masterdoctor on Dec 29, 2022 19:54:07 GMT
I'm not a fan of the first one at all. Sure it looks amazing, but in this case, I don't care about any of the characters or the plot or the world building Cameron tries to do. I might be going to the second one on someone else's dime, so maybe I'll enjoy this one as well, but the runtime of three hours plus does not fill me with confidence.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 29, 2022 20:56:07 GMT
I'm not a fan of the first one at all. Sure it looks amazing, but in this case, I don't care about any of the characters or the plot or the world building Cameron tries to do. I might be going to the second one on someone else's dime, so maybe I'll enjoy this one as well, but the runtime of three hours plus does not fill me with confidence. 3 hours!, that puts me off immensely. I don't mind that kind of run time if we're talking the Shawshank Redemption or Lord of the Rings. I don't think I can watch a cgi fest that long.
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Post by iainmclaughlin on Dec 29, 2022 22:08:10 GMT
The first one was technically a triumph... or a triumph of technology. But as an actual story... overly familiar and done with more style and more heart elsewhere. Seen it once, and no interest in seeing it again - similarly disinterested in the sequels.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Dec 29, 2022 22:10:38 GMT
Well, I do not think you came across as bitchy. I understand what you are getting at, even if I do not know the series you refer to.
I also find it sad when something original and creative and weird is overshadowed or replaced or financially starved or pushed out of the market or gobbled up by an entertainment giant. This is why I have such trepitations about the new connections of Who to Disney. Very apprehensive. To say it in the words of Peter Davison "Nothing wobbles! I love a good wobble!" I do not mind wobbly sets, bubble-wrap aliens (Arc in Space), bad CGI and cheap looking space-ship models.
If the story is great and the characters are well written and if the wobbly set and wonky costumes are crafted with care and love.
For all the shiny effects in Avatar- the whole thing just feels hollow.
Absolutely agree, I'm a bit apprehensive about Disney too. One thing I've loved about Doctor Who and Big Finish is that a lot of people working behind the scenes are fans and have grown up loving the show. I worry that with Disney the element of love and care could diminish. The worry that keeps coming back to me is this; BBC: Thanks for the extra money towards the budget. Disney: Your welcome, now about this cast list, we want Dwanye Johnson to be the next Doctor. BBC: Hang on a minute, that's not part of the deal, you get distribution only. Disney: sure, sure, just a suggestion but perhaps we should discuss how prominently we advertise the show on Disney plus and I think we were a bit hasty with our budget contribution. BBC: Okay, okay, perhaps we can consider Dwanye Johnson. Disney: Excellent, now this list of writers and directors, we've not heard of any of them. We want JJ Abrams. BBC: Okay but make sure you keep pumping money into the budget. JJ Abrams: Hey guys, this TARDIS thing, I'm gonna redesign, from now on it's a massive battle cruiser and this Doctor, I think they should kick ass more often, instead of a sonic screwdriver let's have a sonic bazooka. Fans: This isn't our show anymore, let's be content with the old episodes and count our losses. Casual viewers: This makes no sense and everyone on the Internet says its rubbish, we're not watching. Disney: Hey BBC, the shows tanking, we're out. BBC: The shows ruined, we've no idea how to fix this. Let's put it on hiatus for 20 years. This ^. My wife has a friend who is in the Aussie tv and movie industry who is listed in top 5 credits easily on the movies/tv shows that they has been heavily involved in. Worked extensively with a few LOTR actors, Nicole Kidman and Zac Efron whom she says is a legitimate lovely caring guy who personally handed "thank you" presents to the cast and crew of 1 of the movies he filmed here. I have sent a message regarding the Disney involvement of Who just asking on their professional opinion/take, waiting on a casual response. "Be alert not alarmed"...
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,677
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Post by shutupbanks on Dec 29, 2022 22:41:43 GMT
Well, I do not think you came across as bitchy. I understand what you are getting at, even if I do not know the series you refer to.
I also find it sad when something original and creative and weird is overshadowed or replaced or financially starved or pushed out of the market or gobbled up by an entertainment giant. This is why I have such trepitations about the new connections of Who to Disney. Very apprehensive. To say it in the words of Peter Davison "Nothing wobbles! I love a good wobble!" I do not mind wobbly sets, bubble-wrap aliens (Arc in Space), bad CGI and cheap looking space-ship models.
If the story is great and the characters are well written and if the wobbly set and wonky costumes are crafted with care and love.
For all the shiny effects in Avatar- the whole thing just feels hollow.
Absolutely agree, I'm a bit apprehensive about Disney too. One thing I've loved about Doctor Who and Big Finish is that a lot of people working behind the scenes are fans and have grown up loving the show. I worry that with Disney the element of love and care could diminish. The worry that keeps coming back to me is this; BBC: Thanks for the extra money towards the budget. Disney: Your welcome, now about this cast list, we want Dwanye Johnson to be the next Doctor. BBC: Hang on a minute, that's not part of the deal, you get distribution only. Disney: sure, sure, just a suggestion but perhaps we should discuss how prominently we advertise the show on Disney plus and I think we were a bit hasty with our budget contribution. BBC: Okay, okay, perhaps we can consider Dwanye Johnson. Disney: Excellent, now this list of writers and directors, we've not heard of any of them. We want JJ Abrams. BBC: Okay but make sure you keep pumping money into the budget. JJ Abrams: Hey guys, this TARDIS thing, I'm gonna redesign, from now on it's a massive battle cruiser and this Doctor, I think they should kick ass more often, instead of a sonic screwdriver let's have a sonic bazooka. Fans: This isn't our show anymore, let's be content with the old episodes and count our losses. Casual viewers: This makes no sense and everyone on the Internet says its rubbish, we're not watching. Disney: Hey BBC, the shows tanking, we're out. BBC: The shows ruined, we've no idea how to fix this. Let's put it on hiatus for 20 years. I raised almost this exact same point a couple of months ago but I got so many people telling me I had nothing to worry about, that everything was going to be fine… NOW people are jumping onto my bandwagon 😂
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,677
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Post by shutupbanks on Dec 29, 2022 22:46:36 GMT
I didn’t enjoy the first one very much but it was beautiful to look at. It was highly derivative of any number of other stories I’d read and seen over the years. I don’t normally mind if a story is derivative but I hate being reminded of other stories while I’m watching it, which is what Avatar did. I don’t know if we “need” another chapter in this story, but when we get down to it, do we need any stories to be expanded, really? My issue is that Cameron has an amazing vision and directs wonderfully but his story writing chops haven’t been the same since he divorced Gale Anne Hurd, with whom he worked on Terminator 1 and 2, Aliens and The Abyss. Nothing since then has been as punchy or innovative as those films were. However, I’m not going to deny Cameron the chance to make movies that quite a lot of other people enjoy. As always, posterity will decide what works.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 29, 2022 23:39:43 GMT
Sorry about the Disney tangent, whoever said be alert not alarmed is absolutely right.
Thanks for all the great posts on Avatar, I love Terminator 1, T2 and Aliens, True Lies and Titanic were good films but Avatar just didn't grab me in terms of story. Parts of it look fantastic but with these CGI heavy films I don't feel physically connected, I much prefer practical effects even if there cheap, because they can be touched.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 30, 2022 8:48:04 GMT
I raised almost this exact same point a couple of months ago but I got so many people telling me I had nothing to worry about, that everything was going to be fine… NOW people are jumping onto my bandwagon 😂 Sorry to break it to you, but the only reason you were sitting on that bandwaggon first was because my internet connection here in the woods is so patchy and I got the news a few hours late.
But not to single out Disney. I feel the same apprehension about AMAZON doing a Warhammer series with Henry Carvill.
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