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Post by Ela on Feb 2, 2024 19:10:33 GMT
Interesting. I haven't listened to them read aloud. And I admit to not having read the books in years and years. But there was a time in my life during which I read and re-read the series multiple times. Especially any time I was depressed or needed an escape. I seem to have less time for that kind of reading now, but I still love the books.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Feb 2, 2024 22:37:23 GMT
I’m currently working my way through Andy Serkis’ reading of the Fellowship of the ring as I drive to work and it’s been an interesting experience. The pacing definitely has some issues. I certainly didn’t need a treatise on the history of tobacco in middle earth, especially one that lasted almost an hour. Not to mention that the Tom Bombadill part grinds the entire forward progression of the story to a halt. While it raises questions about Tom and his role in the world of Middle Earth, which I’m not sure are expanded on in works like the Similarion. It certainly wasn’t something that needed telling in Fellowship. The other glaring issue is the language used in the story. There’s a passage in the book where the elves are described as “sad and queer”, while knowing about the context in which the story was written, I have to admit that it did paint the elves in a substantially different light than Tolkien intended in my mental image of the elves at that moment. There’s a similar moment during the snowstorm in the book where a word I won’t repeat is used, only because that word has since become a slur. While I’m enjoying it, the length and the time since the writing of the story has certainly made it more difficult to casually recommend. It’s annoying that the slur in question was used quite inoffensively for about 95% of its history until it became an insult in the modern age. In terms of recommending it, the length shouldn’t be a problem for folks who have read the doorstops that are currently being published these days, popularised by the latter Harry Potter books. It’s still an insanely popular text, if my Instagram feed is anything to go by.
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Post by number13 on Feb 2, 2024 23:26:13 GMT
Tolkien would be the first to recognise that language evolves with time; his writings are full of examples both real and imagined.
For example, the hobbits' Brandywine river is really the elves' Baranduin. Gandalf is from gandr-elf ('elf with a wand' yes I know he wasn't an elf, but the Men of NW Middle-Earth thought he was!) or hobbit from holbytla (I think) meaning hole-dweller. With his vast knowledge of Middle English, you have to read the notes to know which of his derivations are genuine, which are pure invention and which are somewhere in between.
But if words which were innocent and inoffensive when written down are no longer entirely so because later people have given them another meaning, that's not the fault of the author or the book and certainly no reason not to read or recommend a book today. It goes both ways; there are words in colloquial English today which are considered no more than lighthearted and archaic (insults mostly!) which would, written or spoken 200 or 300 years ago, have got a book or play banned, or landed the speaker in a duel!
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Post by mrperson on Feb 6, 2024 18:42:27 GMT
(having Sam calling Frodo "Oy boss" all the time was seriously WRONG and I was obviously not the only one thinking this) I'm sitting at my desk over in here in Massachusetts and you probably saw me cringe when I read that.
"Oy boss"? Really? Oy vey...
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Post by mrperson on Feb 6, 2024 18:50:51 GMT
The other glaring issue is the language used in the story. There’s a passage in the book where the elves are described as “sad and queer”, while knowing about the context in which the story was written, I have to admit that it did paint the elves in a substantially different light than Tolkien intended in my mental image of the elves at that moment.
I never read it that way. I suppose I was always aware one meaning was odd or strange.
That said, it's not a slur unless used to insult. The "Q" in LGBTQ is "Queer", no? People refer to themselves as "queer". I've seen it and heard it.
That's very different from calling a person "a queer", since that just about necessarily conveys disgust and condemnation. That's the slur usage.
Still, it's a word I tend to avoid using just in case anyone thinks I'm using it in a bad way.
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 6, 2024 19:37:49 GMT
(having Sam calling Frodo "Oy boss" all the time was seriously WRONG and I was obviously not the only one thinking this) I'm sitting at my desk over in here in Massachusetts and you probably saw me cringe when I read that.
"Oy boss"? Really? Oy vey...
Just imagine the electrical charge running through me when I had to read through this abomination. Common sense prevailed and this travesty was taken off the market.
I still have the copy somewhere at home at my parents's place. Hidden deep at the back of one of the book shelves.
I of course have now several copies of the English version.
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