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Post by Trace on Mar 2, 2016 5:14:33 GMT
Tonight I did my Dark Shadows group listen, and then started Dorian....after about three minutes I recalled this being one of my very favorite stories and was already very tired, so immediately shut it off and will get back to it sometime in the next few days when I am wide awake and can savor every minute! Toby is a fascinating and favorite character, and Hugh Skinner (so good in the musical film version of Les Miserables) is wonderful here as well. He brings a lot to Dorian's "humanity"--more in a few days! Can't wait!! And anxious to hear everyone else's thoughts.
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Post by fingersmash on Mar 2, 2016 5:25:42 GMT
This story is quite possibly one of my favorite stories of all time. It's that good. Hugh Skinner and Alexander Vlahos have an amazing chemistry and it's telling that Toby is such a massive part of the Dorian mythos going forward because of it. We really see what happens when two immortals fall in love, and I quite frankly can't tell if I could live through it like Dorian and Toby did. It takes so much talent to tell such a compelling love story in 31:42 and Scott Handcock pulls it off so brilliantly. Enough of my gushing for now though.
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Post by ellycmac on Mar 2, 2016 22:17:30 GMT
The Heart That Lives Alone. , Okay, so I came to this series only this past fall and burned through all of it in two months. This one caught me by surprise a little bit the first time I heard it. I suppose I wasn't expecting a story like that- something that, while it had supernatural elements, was essentially a story about love, and one that in the end decides that love is not always enough. I finished it feeling sort of at loose ends. I mean I loved it, a story that makes you really feel is always a good story.
I have to agree with fingersmash's post about how Scott crafted a real story arc in the short run time. I remember being drawn in by the fun of the first bit- the music, watching Dorian be toyed with and the game between them. The tone is upbeat, and sexy, and a little mysterious. Completely drew me in. And then it starts to bleed off into this small, still story about a man who has lost the ability to see beauty in the world or experience joy. It is one of the saddest things I can think of (reminded me of, sorry for the reference, but Godric on True Blood... which was also incredibly sad). And there's Dorian, wanting so much to help but in the end all he can do is just be there. You feel the helplessness, and the loss, so fully in those last moments. It was really beautifully crafted. Dorian only able to say that he loves Toby once Toby is basically gone, is a last note of sadness.
I will add that I was curious about how the exact nature of the relationship between them was mostly implied in this story. Dorian uses the word friendship, and we are not privy to anything physical between them (outside of the feeding, which I understand is definitely part of it, but again in an implied way) until the world's saddest goodbye kiss at the end. I mean, the story is fantastic I'm not saying this in a negative way, I completely accepted it when I listened to it, thinking that there may be boundaries or rules or what have you. But then next is Fallen King of Britain and it's almost jarring that they are so explicit about that one, following right on the heels of the soft romance of THTLA. Now, I think that almost works in favour of the stories (the differing tones are appropriate to what is happening in each of them), but I suspect that perhaps it's because Heart That Lives Alone is the first one Scott wrote, and perhaps he wasn't sure how much leash he'd get or how it would translate? I'm just curious.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble. I've been meaning to come play here for a while!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 23:17:56 GMT
I suspect that perhaps it's because Heart That Lives Alone is the first one Scott wrote, and perhaps he wasn't sure how much leash he'd get or how it would translate? I'm just curious.
Sorry... don't normally pop in here. Thanks for all the lovely comments, incidentally! The Heart That Lives Alone holds a very special place in my heart (I even got given a framed print of the artwork for my 30th by the designer - it's that significant) so it's an honour to see it hit the right notes with people... Thank you! But yes, just wanted to comment because I find the sex observation really rather interesting. Certainly the lack of it in The Heart That Lives Alone had nothing to do with uncertainty about content. Honestly? It's not there because the story's about the connection, and the bond formed between these two characters. There's an ambiguity there for the audience. You get how these two people are important to each other, but how that manifests is entirely up to you... Alex and I would argue (not seriously, obviously) about it. He was convinced it was very much a physical relationship, whereas I'd always imagined it to be a more emotional, unspoken connection. But that's part of my point - if we'd had a sex scene between them, it would have suddenly been defined as something quite relatable and mundane, and I weirdly don't think their relationship would have worked as well overall. If those characters did have sex, it would be the most brilliant, meaningful, probably emotionally-repressed sex you could have imagined. Not something that could be conveyed in a single scene. In The Fallen King of Britain, however, that connection isn't there. Yes, Dorian fancies Simon, but they don't have anything meaningful beyond that. They sleep together, and that's all it is - and all the listener experiences: a moment of blowing off steam. Nothing more significant. Yes, true, Simon falls for Dorian. But the feelings aren't reciprocated. To Dorian, Simon's just a means to an end. Oh, he's attractive and smart and ticks a lot of boxes. But still, a means to an end. And as these Confessions are being related by Dorian, he has no shame in telling us about it... What happened with Toby, on the other hand, that's raw, and private... it meant something... and that's why we only scratch the surface. (Sorry - didn't mean to go on!)
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Post by ellycmac on Mar 2, 2016 23:42:20 GMT
Oh god Scott, I hope you know that I didn't mean that I wanted that at all. I think a lot of the emotional impact and beauty of the story has to do with its subtlety and, as you pointed out, its intimacy. I love the story exactly the way it is, I was just curious about that aspect. Thanks for answering the curiosity!
I'll just go die of embarrassment now
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Post by aemiliapaula on Mar 3, 2016 0:29:24 GMT
One unique thing about this story was that Dorian and Toby took turns narrating it. It was interesting to hear their different points of view about the same events.
I ended up listening to this at 4am. Was not expecting to get so involved and be crying for Dorian Gray for a vampire???!!!
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Post by elkawho on Mar 3, 2016 2:26:13 GMT
Thank you for that, Scott. It works perfectly just the way you described. it. It's a beautiful story.
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Post by acousticwolf on Mar 3, 2016 10:46:04 GMT
I really don't know what to say about this story without babbling - It's just so perfect. It's the first story that engrossed me so much that I forgot how long it was, it felt like a full-length film and not a 30 minute story. Scott wrote it beautifully and I know his stories never seem rushed, but with this one he managed to get so much living into such a short space of time. This says a lot about Alex's and Hugh's acting as well - their narration sounds like an "old married couple" and listening to the way they play off against other, I would expect them both to be great friends in real life rather than just actors playing roles - basically, they are so believable. Not to be disrespectful about certain age-groups, but I can now totally understand how they felt when the first "Twilight" film came out (at least judging from my daughter's reaction to it ), this story has that same quality about it. I never imagined that I could feel this way about a purely male-oriented storyline (sensual, obviously sexually charged ... whether they did or didn't ...), but I have to admit that as a 40-odd year old heterosexual male ... I melted! There's no denying it - Vampires are sexy! As is Dorian . I also love the way Dorian is so petulant at the start about being ignored and given the run around, getting a taste of his own medicine. There isn't much to criticise about this story and the only thing I thought a little strange was how shocked Dorian sounded when Toby killed the girl - it's 1986 and Dorian has been around so long and seen (and done) so much, it just sounded a little off (off course listening to later stories, you still get that same sense of shock/horror from him so it's probably just something he never gets over). Okdoke, I have babbled enough and we come full circle. It's so perfect!! Cheers Tony
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 4, 2016 2:23:26 GMT
First of all no one needs to apologize for blabbing, rambling, and going on...that's the entire point of this thread. Anyways I probably cannot do my feelings for the Heart that Lives Alone justice. It's one of my favorite stories, not just of Dorian but of anything. A 3 arc love story told in only 30 mins. In the first arc we have Dorian absolutely infatuated with Tobias and Toby just gives him the complete run around. Although I didn't notice this the first time I listened; I love how Toby's true nature is foreshadowed right from the start: "He rocked/walked up just as dusk began to fall "It was like he got dressed in the dark". (fangirl mode but I imagine Dorian helping Toby dress and look presentable. Maybe cutting his hair. Okay I'll stop now). I guess I am a bit of sadist because I love how completely smitten and hurt Dorian is here. And it shows right from the start that Toby completely gets Dorian. The second arc I feel is when Dorian finds out Toby's true nature. I have to say the scene with the girl is shocking to me. It shows that Toby can be very cruel. He's certainly not anything like Angel from Buffy. True Toby may not have asked to be the way he is. But he will kill. Of course while Dorian acts shocked at first, Toby is quick to point out Dorian's hypocrisy. Dorian may not be a vampire but he's no angel himself. As for their relationship I admit I did think something physical/sexual was going on. However I feel Dorian & Toby's chemistry and what I love about these two goes well beyond that. They were two lonely souls who both followed a dark path and yet they found something beautiful together. Dorian who was becoming so bored with life who thought he would never find anyone who would ever truly understand him suddenly finds Toby. "And what's more I loved his company..." I think in some ways this makes the ending even sadder. Because it's Toby who introduces something more to Dorian. Well it brings to mind that famous saying is it better to love and lose or to never love at all.... The final arc for me at least starts with the painting (and how fitting that a love story for Dorian comes down to a painting). Although thinking about it I wonder if Toby had given up on life before he found Dorian and for awhile being with Dorian stopped those thoughts? Was it the painting that started it or just brought those thoughts back? Not sure if Dorian should have tried to stop Toby or if he was right to be supportive of his friend in those final hours. I don't really think there is an easy answer here. Toby's final moments are so painful and beautiful at the same time. "like you and me...beauty and death together". Those final I love you's. Was that the first time they let out their true feelings? I have to say the moment that really gets me emotionally at the end is when Dorian says he waited for him to come back....my heart! So yeah I love this little love story, the deep relationship that forms between these two characters, and the tragic yet beautiful ending all in the span of a 1/2 hour. The beautiful poem that frames this story www.bartleby.com/145/ww277.html
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Post by Trace on Mar 5, 2016 4:12:48 GMT
I can't say much more than that. It is, quite possibly, a perfect love story. I have always thought so,
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Post by cyberandzinc on Mar 5, 2016 4:30:30 GMT
Ahhh The Heart That Lives Alone. Definitely one of my favourites. Couldn't get it out of my head. Ended up relistening to it eight times before moving on to The Fallen King of Britain. I thought Toby's character works as some sort of foil to Dorian. Dorian, whilst he hates himself, hasn't quite lost his will to live. It could be an age thing. I mean, Toby is older than Dorian. But I still find that extraordinary. He retains that spark, which is also what makes his character so much more tragic. He is tired of life but he also sees beauty in it. He cannot quit it just yet and thus has no way to unload all the guilt and regrets. Still, we don't know whether Dorian actually can die. Though the pair first meet in the 80s, Wordsworth does seem strangely fitting and really enhances the theme. It reminds me that both of them have had a long life before meeting each other. Please forgive my poor English, I'm not a native speaker. Can't find the appropriate expression half the time. I was wondering whether anyone here can help me understand some of the language used. I'd be grateful to know if by 'fashionably late' Toby was joking about his being a vampire or that Dorian gave the answer only after being prompted? Also, I'm curious about what the woman said in the beginning. Was it 'loving the outfit' or...what was it? Again, abosolutely adore this series. If only I can understand it better?
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 5, 2016 9:48:08 GMT
Please forgive my poor English, I'm not a native speaker. Can't find the appropriate expression half the time. I was wondering whether anyone here can help me understand some of the language used. I'd be grateful to know if by 'fashionably late' Toby was joking about his being a vampire or that Dorian gave the answer only after being prompted? Also, I'm curious about what the woman said in the beginning. Was it 'loving the outfit' or...what was it? Again, abosolutely adore this series. If only I can understand it better? Welcome to the forums. Happy to have you join us! When the lady mentions Dorian's costume she does say " loving the outfit btw, I never had you down as an Adam & the Ants fan" who were a band from the 70's & 80's en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_the_AntsAs for fashionably late it's an expression that is usually used when you are coming to a party and you arrive a little after the arrival time so you aren't the first person at the party. Its considered acceptable. It's not usually used in the way Toby used it. But in this sense I think he was just making fun of Dorian for stating what was obvious. Yes I'm a vampire and you got it so quickly too. You were only a little late at understanding what was going on. Toby was just being a bit sarcastic there.
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Post by Trace on Mar 5, 2016 23:27:50 GMT
The ending gets me every time. I found that very emotional connection that Scott speaks of to be what humanizes Dorian here. I love that he pursued Toby and was given the brush off repeatedly, even to the point of being insulted...."maybe you're just not very special." That set the scene and it was clear we were going to see a very different side of Dorian. I love that he allowed himself to become vulnerable for Toby, and Toby actually WAS interested all along, only playing hard-to-get as a way of making himself irresistible. It worked.
Lovely of Scott to enter our conversation with his own thoughts on this one. I'm so glad it holds a special place in his heart, as well it should. As I said before, it just may be the perfect love story. One of my favorites of ALL TIME!! Scott, Alex and team started out to create a nice little audio horror anthology series. What happened was they created art. I'm so sorry it's ending, but so looking forward to Series 5, and this group listen has been the BEST...what a fitting tribute to take us through this year up to the final releases! I can't wait to hear each and every one.
Scott, Alex--look what you've done! This continued interest is wonderful!
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raffa
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Post by raffa on Mar 6, 2016 0:45:39 GMT
Hi! I’m a new member here, Kim suggested me to join this discussion, so... here I am! I’m Raffaella, nice to meet you all So, so, so, what to say about “The Confessions of Dorian Gray”. First of all I want to be clear: I’m not an English native speaker, English is my second language, and I must say that this audio series helps me /a lot/ in listening comprehension, it’s almost as if I’m listening to something in my own language and that’s wonderful! Now, let’s get down to business: this series is totally a-ma-zing. Really, it was love at first sight from the very first seconds of “This world, our hell”! The cast is amazing, they do wonders with their voices, they’re able to let you see the scenarios, their facial expressions, their movements and so on. But also how every episode is written, I love the style, with this continuous alternating between Dorian’s descriptions and the dialogues. And the foley artists, wonderful! They add those tiny details that make the difference, love love love! However. Since I listened to the first 4 eps a while ago (and now I’m too sleepy to describe every little thing I loved in them), I’ll sum up my thoughts (or at least I’ll try). The starting point of the whole series (Dorian Gray as a real human being who inspired Oscar Wilde to write his novel) fascinated me a lot, it was a totally different point of view with lots of potentialities, so I decided to give it a try. And I was right, it was worthy for! Dorian’s descriptions of everything are extremely accurate, in a way that makes you imagine the entire scene as if it’s happening right in front of your eyes, but at the same time the language is really easy to understand and the spelling of each word is clear, so that even foreigners (like me) can listen to it without big problems. Moving on to Dorian himself, I loved his characterization: he’s a complex character, obv, he’s always tortured by his past and his regrets and more than once we have evidence of this (e.g. 1.02, “The houses in between”, perfect example) but what I like most is how he shows two sides of himself: on one hand we have the cold no-soul Dorian, who feels nothing towards none. But on the other hand there’s still a sparkle of humanity in him, even though it doesn’t seem: he still suffers because of his ‘gift’ of eternal youth and beauty and he cannot get free from the voices and regrets inside his head, and I think that this is what makes him more human than ever and such a tragically fantastic character. {Spoiler} And that’s it, these were my two cents about “The confessions of Dorian Gray”! (Hope it’s written in comprehensible English - -) P.S. Least but not last, every time (I SWEAR!) Alex’s voice sends me shivers right down my spine and I can’t help, my God.
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Post by cyberandzinc on Mar 6, 2016 7:01:17 GMT
Welcome to the forums. Happy to have you join us! When the lady mentions Dorian's costume she does say " loving the outfit btw, I never had you down as an Adam & the Ants fan" who were a band from the 70's & 80's en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_the_Ants Thanks so much for the link and the explanation! That was really helpful. Kind of you to do that. Sorry for the trouble. Always wanted to discuss The Confessions with someone. Glad I found this forum!
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 6, 2016 15:28:35 GMT
Just a reminder everyone that the Big Finish podcast this week is going to have a focus on Dorian.
And a day early but going to officially start the discussion for The Fallen King of Britain
I'll add my thoughts later but I like one review I read that said despite taking place in modern times this episode feels especially gothic. A very strong end to the first series.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2016 21:13:55 GMT
As for fashionably late it's an expression that is usually used when you are coming to a party and you arrive a little after the arrival time so you aren't the first person at the party. Its considered acceptable. It's not usually used in the way Toby used it. But in this sense I think he was just making fun of Dorian for stating what was obvious. Yes I'm a vampire and you got it so quickly too. You were only a little late at understanding what was going on. Toby was just being a bit sarcastic there. Oooh, you know, it was actually a terrible pun on Toby's part. Obviously, being a vampire, he's late (in the sense of being dead) but also fashionable with it... (Goodness, you're having to explain the gags, Handcock. Stop now...) Bit of trivia: Fashionably Late was one of the working titles for this story. Recently found all sorts of old documents to refresh my memory. I really could write a book about Confessions... ahem.
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 6, 2016 21:24:57 GMT
As for fashionably late it's an expression that is usually used when you are coming to a party and you arrive a little after the arrival time so you aren't the first person at the party. Its considered acceptable. It's not usually used in the way Toby used it. But in this sense I think he was just making fun of Dorian for stating what was obvious. Yes I'm a vampire and you got it so quickly too. You were only a little late at understanding what was going on. Toby was just being a bit sarcastic there. Oooh, you know, it was actually a terrible pun on Toby's part. Obviously, being a vampire, he's late (in the sense of being dead) but also fashionable with it... (Goodness, you're having to explain the gags, Handcock. Stop now...) Bit of trivia: Fashionably Late was one of the working titles for this story. Recently found all sorts of old documents to refresh my memory. I really could write a book about Confessions... ahem. Thanks very much for the explanation. Well cyberandzinc this is a much better explanation than I could provide. From the source itself. And Scott I hope you know that I am now holding you to a promise that you will write this Confessions of Confessions book. I promise to buy it if you do.
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raffa
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Post by raffa on Mar 6, 2016 22:38:40 GMT
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Post by cyberandzinc on Mar 7, 2016 11:59:15 GMT
Thanks so much, Scott, for the explanation. I for one would definitely buy the book if you do plan on writing it. Haha I'd gladly buy the scripts of the existing episodes if you were to publish any of them. Whoa, the Fallen King of Britain. Really enjoyed this one. David Blackwell played Simon beautifully. He managed to make Simon sound so vulnerable and so caring, so weary and yet so...wise? His brilliant performance and of course, Joseph Lidster's amazing writing really makes it clear that it can't be easy trying to have a relationship with Dorian, who always leaves a series of destructiom behind him. I love the fact that whether or not the coke is actually possessed is not made clear to us. I mean, I wouldn't exactly take Dorian's word for it. I don't think he's the most reliable of narrators evem when he's not on cocaine. All those years of chasing and being chased by the supernatural has left him rather paranoid, if it wasn't just the cocaine speaking. It provides an ambiguity which shifts the story's focus from the more occult elements to the characters and allows us to explore Dorian's psyche. How he's dependent on narcotics. How he's ridden with guilt. How he and everyone around him are now lonely hedonists. Thought this sets uo rather nicely for Running Away With You. The character Mark seems to be quite interesting as well. The contrast btw his apparent arrogance and Dorian's bitterness serves to show us how Dorian doesn't exctly feel like a king, so to speak, even though he is at the top pf society. Instead he feels really helpless. Indeed so helpless that he needs alcohol and drugs to make it through the day. I love how this story immediately follows The Heart That Lives Alone. (I bought the discs as I didn't know about the DL version at the time. I appreciate how this ep still follows 1.4 in the discs though they are arranged in chronological order instead of release order.) At the beginning, we hear Dorian say '...and we live' and 'now it's all out there' as if people are now finally, truly free, as if Dorian is living the life he wants, which sound to me to be quite strange, even though it's been, what, twenty years since Toby's passing on? We (pls forgive my generalising) soon realise that beneath all the sound and fury, the superficial joy and pleasure barely suppresses the desperation and bitterness of these people. Not just Dorian, but Mark and Fiona as well. I thought I heard Fiona said something about not being able to stop remembering her mum? Actualy did anyone hear what she said on her phone? Haha I'm not very good at listening to audio dramas. Anyhow, the story slowly precipitates into this sober melancholy which, again, reveald much about Dorian's character and perhaps his destiny. It doesn't matter that Dorian's got the looks or that he can anyone to sleep with him, he sti has to carry the burden of memory. Doctor Who spoiler alert: I'd love to read or listen to an Azhildr/TCODG crossover. Just want to see them compare notes.
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