bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Mar 8, 2016 9:28:21 GMT
Doctor Who spoiler alert: I'd love to read or listen to an Azhildr/TCODG crossover. Just want to see them compare notes. Maybe she was sat next to Dorian and Quentin in The Darkest Shadow.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2016 10:50:17 GMT
Doctor Who spoiler alert: I'd love to read or listen to an Azhildr/TCODG crossover. Just want to see them compare notes. Maybe she was sat next to Dorian and Quentin in The Darkest Shadow. Nope. I checked the guest list.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Mar 8, 2016 10:56:10 GMT
I wouldn't have let her in either.
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 8, 2016 11:30:43 GMT
I haven't listened to the Darkest Shadows yet but knowing that Dorian's role was just a cameo I would have liked maybe a Dark Shadows/Dorian Gray special with Quentin & Dorian similar to Ghosts of Christmas Past.
Ah well!
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Post by Trace on Mar 11, 2016 4:42:00 GMT
The Fallen King of Britain is unique at this point...as cyber said, we really don't know if the voices from the coke are supernatural or just Dorian's conscience made manifest. Certainly all the "spirits" who speak to him are the people of his past. Some we have already met in our release-order listenthru, and some not. I think this Dorian, fallen "king" that he is, is at his most world-weary in this year, 2007. The story is quite dark, but at the same time, I think the ending is hopeful (without giving it away for those who haven't listened to this week's audio yet.)
Great characters, Simon, Mark and Fiona! Anxious to hear more input from others.
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Post by omega on Mar 11, 2016 6:35:03 GMT
Over on the CoDG wiki it's believed that the antagonist of Fallen King of Britain is the Lost from The Houses in Between. It'd explain how Dorian's hallucinations were so personal and why they were encouraging him to kill himself, their goal from THiB.
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Post by cyberandzinc on Mar 11, 2016 6:42:03 GMT
Over on the CoDG wiki it's believed that the antagonist of Fallen King of Britain is the Lost from The Houses in Between. It'd explain how Dorian's hallucinations were so personal and why they were encouraging him to kill himself, their goal from THiB. Well, they do sound similar. If that's true, it certainly deals with the loose end of there always being more of The Lost as Dorian's life progresses.
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Post by omega on Mar 11, 2016 6:51:26 GMT
Over on the CoDG wiki it's believed that the antagonist of Fallen King of Britain is the Lost from The Houses in Between. It'd explain how Dorian's hallucinations were so personal and why they were encouraging him to kill himself, their goal from THiB. Well, they do sound similar. If that's true, it certainly deals with the loose end of there always being more of The Lost as Dorian's life progresses. Plus he's just gotten more hedonistic as society becomes increasingly numbed towards that kind of behaviour. It'd be interesting to see if the writer intended to use the Lost or if their MO is simply remarkably similar to the antagonist of FKoB. Personally, I believe there is a supernatural agent at work and the events of the story were triggered by Dorian meeting Simon, bringing up memories of how he began with Henry Wotton which was the catalyst for what we hear happening.
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Post by acousticwolf on Mar 11, 2016 8:48:51 GMT
Over on the CoDG wiki it's believed that the antagonist of Fallen King of Britain is the Lost from The Houses in Between. It'd explain how Dorian's hallucinations were so personal and why they were encouraging him to kill himself, their goal from THiB. Well, they do sound similar. If that's true, it certainly deals with the loose end of there always being more of The Lost as Dorian's life progresses. When I heard them in the opening part I thought they were the lost again. To be honest I think it makes more sense than having Demons in one batch of cocaine, but then again it is Dorian Gray so who knows . I don't remember but do they explain how the banker and the girl died? Self-inflicted, overdosed or just "died"? I know the implication is that Dorian killed them by giving the cocaine to them, but I just took that as the lost berating him for their deaths and his lack of conscience. As Trace said, by this story he has gone too far down the road of hedonism and is at breaking point. A very dark story and a bit unexpected after the rest of the season with Dorian very much the Anti-Hero. Cheers Tony
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Post by cyberandzinc on Mar 11, 2016 9:01:56 GMT
I don't remember but do they explain how the banker and the girl died? Self-inflicted, overdosed or just "died"? Mark died of a heart attack which I understood to be somewhat linked to the cocaine but Fiona's death is never explained. Dorian seems to believe the demons have been haunting them the same way they've been haunting him. There's an interesting contrast btw Fallen King and Houses. Yeah, like jbmasta has said, Dorian is getting more hedonistic but the deaths of Mark and Fiona are not even directly linked to Dorian as the death of Rosina is, but just as he said in Houses, he doesn't want to stop the demons this time. Perhaps he's been expecting The Lost to return? So much that his guilt has perhaps catalysed the reaction, causing the real or imaginary demons to come out?
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Post by omega on Mar 11, 2016 9:15:09 GMT
There's an interesting contrast btw Fallen King and Houses. Yeah, like jbmasta has said, Dorian is getting more hedonistic but the deaths of Mark and Fiona are not even directly linked to Dorian as the death of Rosina is, but just as he said in Houses, he doesn't want to stop the demons this time. Perhaps he's been expecting The Lost to return? So much that his guilt has perhaps catalysed the reaction, causing the real or imaginary demons to come out? Dorian even states at the end of Houses in Between that he didn't expect the Lost to be gone forever, noting he thought he'd seen them in the flame of a match for example. He even said that next time he may not want to resist them. Meeting Simon may have catalysed Dorian's memories of his own beginning back in The Picture of Dorian Gray, which in turn catalysed the Lost to properly manifest and act through the cocaine Dorian was dealing in. Mark and Fiona did appear in Dorian's dreams after they died, so it's possible that the dreams were influenced by the Lost.
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Post by acousticwolf on Mar 11, 2016 9:36:12 GMT
There's an interesting contrast btw Fallen King and Houses. Yeah, like jbmasta has said, Dorian is getting more hedonistic but the deaths of Mark and Fiona are not even directly linked to Dorian as the death of Rosina is, but just as he said in Houses, he doesn't want to stop the demons this time. Perhaps he's been expecting The Lost to return? So much that his guilt has perhaps catalysed the reaction, causing the real or imaginary demons to come out? Dorian even states at the end of Houses in Between that he didn't expect the Lost to be gone forever, noting he thought he'd seen them in the flame of a match for example. He even said that next time he may not want to resist them. Meeting Simon may have catalysed Dorian's memories of his own beginning back in The Picture of Dorian Gray, which in turn catalysed the Lost to properly manifest and act through the cocaine Dorian was dealing in. Mark and Fiona did appear in Dorian's dreams after they died, so it's possible that the dreams were influenced by the Lost. I can definitely live with that explanation Cheers Tony
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 11, 2016 12:35:30 GMT
When I listened to the story I thought of it as demons in the cocaine but yes It could very well be a non-supernatural story. It is Coke after all that can mess you up no demons needed. I like that this story can be enjoyed on either layer.
I also never thought of a connection between the demons in the House in Between & this story but you're right they do have a similarity.
As for my own thoughts what I found interesting is although now Dorian is using an alias again. He displays his portrait for everyone to see. Sure they think it's ugly looking and don't get what it is. But to me it's symbolic that now in the present day Dorian can portray his sins for all to see and it doesn't really matter. In the past he would have to leave the country to avoid scandal. But now Dorian Gray's sins are welcomed in the world.
Still while Dorian should be in his element in the 21st Century instead he feels empty and needs things like alcohol, sex, and drugs to numb it all. He's not really experiencing life anymore at all.
I do wonder what would have happened if Dorian jumped. He wouldn't have died (he would have killed Simon). However if he kept taking that Coke I expect he would have gone completely mad. I think Dorian dodged a bullet here.
Anyways "Simple Simon" is the character who shows true strength in this story. He gets through to Dorian to rethink his life and while he is in love with Dorian he is able to walk away.
Love the last line "Now I choose to live..." But will he really?
On another note my other favorite scene is when Dorian scoffs at the blonde hair line. Because yes despite the fact that Dorian is blonde in the novel it seems most of the actors that have played the character have had dark hair. Nice way to lampshade that in this story.
I love all the music in this series but this story had some especially strong and sweeping tracks.
Also highly enjoyed all the cameos in this story. A strong way to end the first series.
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Post by fingersmash on Mar 11, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
Over on the CoDG wiki it's believed that the antagonist of Fallen King of Britain is the Lost from The Houses in Between. It'd explain how Dorian's hallucinations were so personal and why they were encouraging him to kill himself, their goal from THiB. This is what I always thought. This is not my most favorite of stories. I think it has the impossible task of following up from The Heart That Lives Alone and as a result, it just feels like the worst Dorian story. It's still really good but it's so hard to distinguish it from The Houses in Between in my head that the two just mesh. Season One is a mixed bag of really really really good and just good that they never really got control of. It's just a really tough listen for me because you go from the depressing ending of The Heart That Lives Alone to Dorian living it up as a rich banker in 21st century London. I just can't wait to get to The Picture of Loretta Delphine and back to the really really really good and just overall fantastic series 2.
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 11, 2016 15:34:31 GMT
Over on the CoDG wiki it's believed that the antagonist of Fallen King of Britain is the Lost from The Houses in Between. It'd explain how Dorian's hallucinations were so personal and why they were encouraging him to kill himself, their goal from THiB. This is what I always thought. This is not my most favorite of stories. I think it has the impossible task of following up from The Heart That Lives Alone and as a result, it just feels like the worst Dorian story. It's still really good but it's so hard to distinguish it from The Houses in Between in my head that the two just mesh. Season One is a mixed bag of really really really good and just good that they never really got control of. It's just a really tough listen for me because you go from the depressing ending of The Heart That Lives Alone to Dorian living it up as a rich banker in 21st century London. I just can't wait to get to The Picture of Loretta Delphine and back to the really really really good and just overall fantastic series 2. Picture of Loretta Delphine is next week I actually find this ep an interesting follow up to the Heart that Lives alone. In that story Toby fulfilled Dorian. He had even said he had given up on narcotics and the temptation of the flesh. Just being in Toby's company was special for Dorian. Contrast to this story sure he's rich and powerful but he's completely empty. He's back to drinking, taking drugs, and having sex just for the sex not for love. He has "friends" but doesn't feel truly close to anyone. He's immortal but hardly experiencing life. He's really just going through the motions. But the ending at least shows he wants something better. He wants to be better. Despite the fact that Dorian makes many mistakes (and I personally love the stories when he does) it's hard not to feel for his character when we hear his inner thoughts and know he wants more from his life & himself (well okay Alex's performance probably has an affect on me as well)
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Mar 11, 2016 15:41:23 GMT
Oh I assumed it was Ghosts of Christmas Past next - that came between Series One and Two didn't it.
I'd already heard series one and Ghosts and that's as much as I've heard.
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Post by kimalysong on Mar 11, 2016 15:44:18 GMT
Oh I assumed it was Ghosts of Christmas Past next - that came between Series One and Two didn't it. I'd already heard series one and Ghosts and that's as much as I've heard. No we are going to do all 3 specials after series 2
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Post by Trace on Mar 12, 2016 1:47:37 GMT
Kimalysong said: ".....personally love the stories when he does) it's hard not to feel for his character when we hear his inner thoughts and know he wants more from his life & himself (well okay Alex's performance probably has an affect on me as well)"
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I definitely agree with you! For me, it seems that no matter what Dorian does, it's very hard to not feel sympathy for him. And, much of that owes to Alex's multi-layered performance. His voice, tone and inflection are so perfect for the character.
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Post by acousticwolf on Mar 12, 2016 11:43:31 GMT
Over on the CoDG wiki it's believed that the antagonist of Fallen King of Britain is the Lost from The Houses in Between. It'd explain how Dorian's hallucinations were so personal and why they were encouraging him to kill himself, their goal from THiB. This is what I always thought. This is not my most favorite of stories. I think it has the impossible task of following up from The Heart That Lives Alone and as a result, it just feels like the worst Dorian story. It's still really good but it's so hard to distinguish it from The Houses in Between in my head that the two just mesh. Season One is a mixed bag of really really really good and just good that they never really got control of. It's just a really tough listen for me because you go from the depressing ending of The Heart That Lives Alone to Dorian living it up as a rich banker in 21st century London. I just can't wait to get to The Picture of Loretta Delphine and back to the really really really good and just overall fantastic series 2. You summed up my thoughts on this perfectly and said it far better than I could .
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Post by elkawho on Mar 12, 2016 13:21:09 GMT
I feel the same way about this episode. It's just ok, which is unusual for a series that usually gives me great stories. It is also one of my least favorite Dorian stories. So much so that I couldn't remember anything about it from the first time I heard it.
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