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Post by cyberandzinc on Apr 15, 2016 15:46:59 GMT
But then what caught me by surprise was the fact that he would choose death at this specific point of his life. I understand there is the aim to save Constanze (and maybe Scott's need to end the show at that point), but still I can't stop wondering why? Why now? Why not earlier or later? Was the thought always there and the events in 2.5 merely an opportunity or was there any other reasons that acted as motive? ? Exactly what I was thinking. There are quite a few episodes in Confessions where Dorian is given the chance to sacrifice himself for others and he refuses them all. The Lost in Houses in Between for one would've loved to see his picture destroyed. Perhaps he just doesn't like being forced to do something? Or perhaps Constance counts as the 'next time' mentioned in Houses? I really don't know. It seems like a weird timing to me, to end his life so permanently there (well, as permanently as he knows at that stage). I like how this story both sets up for the events of the novel and mirrors its ending. I always thought that Lord Henry is merely a catalyst for Dorian's transformation into a selfish hedonist. This story at least attempts to explain his obsession with youth. It certainly takes a certain mindset for Dorian to feel so strongly about growing old and losing his youth. I've only just listened to Bernice Summerfield: Shades of Gray last week. Quite a few of the main ideas of this episode seem to have made their first appearance in Shades of Gray? I wonder if that's intentional?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 16:11:14 GMT
The Mayfair Monster (which comes after this) goes some way to demonstrating Dorian's malaise after Toby, which continues into The Picture of Loretta Delphine... why now and nobody else? Well, it's Dorian playing the martyr. Really, it could only have worked (for me) because of when the Constance story is set. In Dorian's head, this whole revelation is confirmation he's never going to cut a break in life. He brings death and devastation to people's lives - even before he had his portrait painted. He can't just blame the portrait. Constance's fate makes it clear it's down to him... and that spurs his malaise in a new direction...
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 15, 2016 18:07:27 GMT
Hi. I'm quite new to the fandom since I only started listening to TCoDG like, a month ago? I came here because I was trying to find inspirations for a fanfic that I'm attempting to write and a friend sent me the link to here. I must say it's amazing to see so many people engaging in discussion about TCoDG and how much it is loved! Back to the point, when I started listening I was really interested in Toby and jumped ahead to listen to all the episodes that he appears in (and I know I shouldn't really do that) which means I kind of knew about what happened in 2.5. But then what caught me by surprise was the fact that he would choose death at this specific point of his life. I understand there is the aim to save Constanze (and maybe Scott's need to end the show at that point), but still I can't stop wondering why? Why now? Why not earlier or later? Was the thought always there and the events in 2.5 merely an opportunity or was there any other reasons that acted as motive? ? Welcome to the forums and discussion Qirunwei. I hope you continue to discuss with us week by week. The relationship between Dorian & Toby is definitely one of my favorite aspects of the series as well.
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Post by Trace on Apr 17, 2016 4:06:10 GMT
Running Away With You has the wonderful May/December relationship for Dorian (and his "first time"). I love the way it's handled here...the whole take-off-your-shirt-while-you-prune-the-hedge bit! The story itself is very voyeuristic with the blonde guy watching Dorian's activities and once again, Alex has chemistry with his costars, especially Lalla Ward. First time around I was quite shocked at the ending and prayed we hadn't heard the last from the range. This time, I didn't have that worry, so just enjoyed the story. A very fitting end to the 2nd series (before specials). I'm looking forward to getting to those specials next!
EDIT: I came back to edit because I forgot to mention the gorgeous, lush musical score on this one. The music is always excellent but for some reason (maybe it's the effect of the final scene) that sweeping melancholy piece at the end stands out as some of the best music of the series. Just beautiful!
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 18, 2016 10:35:14 GMT
When I first heard Running Away with you I didn't realize it was Lalla Ward. I had not read the cast list before listening and prior to that the only think I had heard from her was the City of Death. I thought she did a really good job of making Constance somewhat sympathetic even though her preying on a lonely teenage boy is pretty creepy. Dorian also seems more immature than most 16 yr olds here I expect because he lived a pretty sheltered life. As for the supernatural aspect I love the concept of an imaginary friend who is not all that imaginary. The last 9 minutes of this story are some of my favorites of this series. I love how he names characters throughout the series (ones that we have met and some that we would meet later like James & Scarlet . And if course dear Toby. As for Dorian's death I LOVE that he isn't actually released here. He's still technically alive but stuck in the painting as lonely as ever. It feels very sad & poetic. Even in death Dorian still can't escape. Maybe that is the payment for giving up his soul.
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 18, 2016 10:36:52 GMT
Now moving onto Ghosts of Christmas Past. The first hour long special and a crossover where Dorian meets Sherlock Holmes.
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Post by elkawho on Apr 19, 2016 12:22:53 GMT
I don't know why, but I didn't remember much about this one going in. I think I enjoyed it a lot more this time around. I don't listen to Nick's Sherlock Holmes very often and I enjoyed this one. I like the rational detective forced to deal with the irrational, and yet continuing to deny it's existence. Alex was terrific as usually. I need to go now, so I'll write more about this one later.
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 21, 2016 22:25:13 GMT
This is a difficult one for me. There is a lot I LOVE about this story: Terrific chemistry between Alex's Dorian & Nick's Sherlock, a wonderful guest cast, and I do think this is a well told story where you don't quite know what is going on or what is going to happen. Will Dorian kill Sherlock? Have the dead come back? Is there a rational or supernatural explanation?
I loved the scene when Dorian shares his thoughts on immortality. You think you have more time to experience more but instead you are trapped experiencing the same tedious things over & over again.
Also special mention to Rupert Young who played James the mysterious character who came to both Sherlock & Dorian (okay I think we all know who this character really was). This little scene seems unconnected to the main events but I enjoy how both Dorian & Sherlock deal with this character & what it symbolizes. Rupert Young is coming back for the upcoming Dracula. Looking forward to that.
I also loved when Sherlock tells Dorian he should want to change despite the girl not really being Sybil. This calls back the existential themes I love of making ones own choices.
However I think this story is too close to Oscar Wilde's novel which does create certain problems for me. Perhaps I am overthinking things (and I tend to do that with things I love) but the only difference between Oscar's novel is Dorian is immortal and has black hair? And Oscar wrote all this into a novel with real names & all? And no one noticed this. I guess it's easier for me to think that the story in Oscar's novel only somewhat resembles the real Dorian's life.
And also at the end of the story Alan is arrested for the murder of Harry (which he did) and for helping in the murder of Basil (which he also did). This absolves Dorian of the murder of Basil. Perhaps he still feels guilty but I feel this story puts the guilt all on Alan which I don't think is really fair all things considered. Sherlock is also wrong & doesn't believe Dorian really did kill Basil. It's weird for me to think of Sherlock as wrong. Although Sherlock makes some nice deductions helping Dorian solve this case. Dorian actually want bad with his own deductions. Maybe he should become a detective.
Overall a very fun special and I think the crossover actually works surprisingly well. Dorian & Sherlock differ from each other enough that until the end you don't know what decision they will make. I didn't think Dorian would kill Sherlock Holmes but I did wonder in different circumstances if he would.
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Post by cyberandzinc on Apr 22, 2016 11:25:04 GMT
I like how Nick's Sherlock sounds really calm and sarcastic. That works really well with Alex's Dorian. To quote Toby, 'sometimes someone has to bring him down a peg or two'. This is perhaps also the first of the Confessions where Dorian doesn't narrate? It works really well, pacing-wise, for a detective mystery.
I don't recall having seen the name of the theatre Sibyl acted and died in. And I tried googling it but to no avail. Bit curious. Was there actually such a place? The Murlock/Merluk/Morluck Theatre (or whatever it is it's called)?
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Post by Trace on Apr 23, 2016 7:46:53 GMT
Well, I quite enjoyed that little mystery the second time around moreso than my first listen.
i don't usually listen to the Sherlock Audios--not sure I would really like them because I'd be missing the Dorian aspect. But there's no mistaking that Nick Briggs KNOWS his character, and I just loved him in this!
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Post by Trace on Apr 25, 2016 5:38:47 GMT
I do think the parallels with Wilde's novel make for a very interesting story. And the question of whether or not these are ghosts from Dorian's and Sherlock's pasts or someone orchestrating an elaborate hoax. I love Dorian's guilt playing mind games with him! Worth another listen, which I did tonight.
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 25, 2016 11:45:23 GMT
Moving on to The Prime of Deacon Brodie by Roy Gill taking us to WWI and the city of Edinburgh.
Very much looking forward to listening to this one again and hearing everyone's thoughts.
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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 25, 2016 12:47:41 GMT
Just to jump back a week , I really enjoyed this - being a fan of both Dorian and Nick's Sherlock I think they work really well together and the music flows beautifully throughout the story. I may be wrong but I don't think we ever did find out who James is/was (in either of the ranges). We now return you to your scheduled programme ... Cheers Tony
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 25, 2016 12:53:09 GMT
Just to jump back a week , I really enjoyed this - being a fan of both Dorian and Nick's Sherlock I think they work really well together and the music flows beautifully throughout the story. I may be wrong but I don't think we ever did find out who James is/was (in either of the ranges). We now return you to your scheduled programme ... Cheers Tony Well although they never explicitly say I assumed the James that visited both Sherlock & Dorian was actually the devil. Considering he actually tried to get to Sherlock to sell his soul to him. And I encourage people to add thoughts to releases we already discussed them.
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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 25, 2016 12:59:16 GMT
Well although they never explicit say I assumed the James that visited both Sherlock & Dorian was actually the devil. Considering he actually tried to get to Sherlock to sell his soul to him. And I encourage people to add thoughts to releases we already discussed them. I would have posted earlier, but it was a bit of an odd week ... I never thought about it like that, but it would certainly fit if it was. Cheers Tony
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Post by Trace on Apr 26, 2016 4:23:18 GMT
Just to jump back a week , I really enjoyed this - being a fan of both Dorian and Nick's Sherlock I think they work really well together and the music flows beautifully throughout the story. I may be wrong but I don't think we ever did find out who James is/was (in either of the ranges). We now return you to your scheduled programme ... Cheers Tony Well although they never explicitly say I assumed the James that visited both Sherlock & Dorian was actually the devil. Considering he actually tried to get to Sherlock to sell his soul to him. And I encourage people to add thoughts to releases we already discussed them. I admittedly know nothing about Sherlock Holmes...never read any of it, saw any films, or embarrassingly so, listened to any of the audios. Maybe I should rectify that, considering how much I loved his Dorian crossover. I've never really been a fan of detective stories, unless there's a supernatural angle. So, following that, I don't have any context for the James character in the story, or the specific James Moriarty that Holmes mentions. I definitely never thought about this James being the Devil...I guess I just thought he was a Sherlock Holmes crossover villain. Is he a frequently appearing villain that appears a lot in Sherlock stories? On to "Prime....." Loved this story when I heard it the first time!
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Post by omega on Apr 26, 2016 4:44:13 GMT
I admittedly know nothing about Sherlock Holmes...never read any of it, saw any films, or embarrassingly so, listened to any of the audios. Maybe I should rectify that, considering how much I loved his Dorian crossover. I've never really been a fan of detective stories, unless there's a supernatural angle. So, following that, I don't have any context for the James character in the story, or the specific James Moriarty that Holmes mentions. I definitely never thought about this James being the Devil...I guess I just thought he was a Sherlock Holmes crossover villain. Is he a frequently appearing villain that appears a lot in Sherlock stories? No, Ghosts of Christmas Past is all Big Finish has done with James. If you like the supernatural angle the audio The Tangled Skein has Sherlock Holmes going up against Dracula. The podcast is currently serialising Big Finish's adaptation of The Hound of the Baskervilles, where a demonic dog and a family curse presents Holmes with an intriguing mystery. They're currently almost an hour in, with one of the podcasts including an interview with Richard Earl, who plays Watson, during the recording of the next Sherlock Holmes box set.
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 26, 2016 10:18:15 GMT
Well although they never explicitly say I assumed the James that visited both Sherlock & Dorian was actually the devil. Considering he actually tried to get to Sherlock to sell his soul to him. And I encourage people to add thoughts to releases we already discussed them. I admittedly know nothing about Sherlock Holmes...never read any of it, saw any films, or embarrassingly so, listened to any of the audios. Maybe I should rectify that, considering how much I loved his Dorian crossover. I've never really been a fan of detective stories, unless there's a supernatural angle. So, following that, I don't have any context for the James character in the story, or the specific James Moriarty that Holmes mentions. I definitely never thought about this James being the Devil...I guess I just thought he was a Sherlock Holmes crossover villain. Is he a frequently appearing villain that appears a lot in Sherlock stories? On to "Prime....." Loved this story when I heard it the first time! If you are talking about James Moriaty he is Sherlock Holmes main enemy but he is only in one story the Final Problem. Moriaty was a human being a genius criminal like Sherlock was a genius detective. Moriaty is just a memorable character and he can be used more often in Sherlock Adaptions like the modern day Sherlock series. As for Big Finish I have only heard one of their original Sherlock stories (I listened to a few more adaptions of Conan Doyle's stories) so I am not sure if they use Moriaty more. However like Sherlock in this story I DONT think this was the real James Moriaty. I think it was the devil taking the guise of a younger James Moriaty. And where Sherlock Holmes rational mind in this story didn't get that exactly he also didn't think it was the real James who came back from the dead. The fact that he was offering Sherlock a chance to live forever for his soul (the same thing as our Dorian) leads me to believe that the only person this James could be is Satan himself.
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Post by fingersmash on Apr 26, 2016 10:48:05 GMT
Ok, I've been away for a couple weeks doing other things and I played a bit of catch up before moving onto Terrahawks 2. The Heart That Lives Alone is a depressing end. Dorian has to save his old governess's soul by killing himself. It is such a creepy end, even if the last 10 or so minutes falls flat for me every time. Ghosts of Christmas Past is just completely flat. I'm completely bored through the entire thing every time I listen to it.
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Post by elkawho on Apr 26, 2016 10:57:30 GMT
Ok, I've been away for a couple weeks doing other things and I played a bit of catch up before moving onto Terrahawks 2. The Heart That Lives Alone is a depressing end. Dorian has to save his old governess's soul by killing himself. It is such a creepy end, even if the last 10 or so minutes falls flat for me every time. Ghosts of Christmas Past is just completely flat. I'm completely bored through the entire thing every time I listen to it. Odd, because that's the one thing I never am with Dorian, bored. I may not like a story, but it's never because it bored me. Hmm, too bad.
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