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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 10:47:57 GMT
I actually liked it. But I also liked The Dark Husband, so what do I know?  I liked TBTTF too. It's a fantasy pastiche of all the 'Journey to the Lost Land at the Top of the Centre of the World that Time Forgot' movies that were staples of 70s holiday TV viewing, invariably with an expedition of Victorian/Edwardian types and what would now be called steampunk technology, meeting some semi-deranged local dictator and a load of big beasties, usually prehistoric ones. And with effects and stop-motion model work that were very good for their time. Heard in that light, and with the willingness to send-up those movies and Doctor Who tropes and A Certain Character, it's a lot of nonsensical fun and I really don't know why it gets the bad reviews. But then, I postively loved 'Robot of Sherwood' and that regularly gets panned by fans. More sense of humour and less desire to fit everything into strict canon goes a long way to enjoying the wilder fringes of the Doctor's life! I think there are a lot of stories where you have to be in the right mindset for it. Robots of Sherwood is great if you're in the mood for an Errol Flynn film, just as Empress of Mars is fun for fans of the Barsoom novels. It's still not as bad as Minuet in Hell.  The original fares much, much better. It's a genuine nightmare. You can find the scripts for it here. |
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Post by Ela on Jun 12, 2018 5:21:22 GMT
Or The Boy that Time Forgot! I have to listen to this one now.. been hearing so much about how amazing it is The Boy That Time Forgot is best forgotten. Completely. |
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Post by Ela on Jun 12, 2018 5:24:52 GMT
I really expected to hate this, after the negative buildup I've been hearing for years.  The story premise was interesting, but became convoluted and hard to follow. And, of course, there are the aforementioned "unnecessary" plot points.  Though I did get the impression the Erimem beat the crap out of her attacker. |
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jun 12, 2018 6:30:23 GMT
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Post by fantasticalice on Jun 15, 2018 0:23:58 GMT
Never thought too much of it, but certainly don't feel as negatively as some. Grittiness? Yeah, well, they would have a very hard time creating a sense of danger if bad things didn't or even couldn't happen, or if they do happen, only happen to red shirts..... There are plenty of episodes with torture, death, etc., so I don't really see the beating/attempted rape as somehow fundamentally off-limits. It was a tense moment and certainly had me thinking "wait...are they (BF) actually going to do this?" But they didn't, and other characters have been put through outright torture as noted. Speaking from experience torture and rape are two very different things. Also it can be somewhat realistic to be tortured and have it never come up again.... but to be beaten and raped and then see the perpetrator treated like a hero? Especially for someone like Erimem it never coming up ever again and being handled so poorly in the play itself is not an ok thing. I don't know how I feel about anything more than what is obviously no more than an attempt being portrayed but a attempt is written about in a Torchwood and a Benny book and I didn't object to either as they were both addressed with the level of seriousness they required. I have no problem with torture being shown in a play or prose. |
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Post by fantasticalice on Jun 15, 2018 0:27:28 GMT
I finished this today. Let me start with the positives - The concept and the story wasn’t too bad, even probably interesting.. but that’s just it. The only plus that I could find. The end result was that it gave me a headache. All the screaming and screeching got on my nerves. Overdone in my opinion. I can’t stand too much of noise and hence the headache. And the way Erimem was treated - again overboard. I don’t tolerate stories with crime against women or for that matter any violence beyond a certain limit. A decent plot with a messy execution. Now i’m listening to Caerdroia to recover from it  This post really made me smile. I like your beliefs abput stories and your respect for women, even fictional one. Thank u. and Caerdroia is a fun story I can't remember it off the top of my head other than I recall it havin a lot of imagination. |
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Post by rran on Jun 15, 2018 4:36:38 GMT
This post really made me smile. I like your beliefs abput stories and your respect for women, even fictional one. Thank u. and Caerdroia is a fun story I can't remember it off the top of my head other than I recall it havin a lot of imagination. Being women, aren't we all born with it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 9:26:15 GMT
It is telling that the writer has never worked for Big Finish again (I seem to remember Peter Davison raised some strong objections at the time, the first time I've ever known that to happen). It is a shame in a way, because he also wrote a story for The Tomorrow People series called The Ghosts of Mendez which is exceptional.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jun 15, 2018 10:43:29 GMT
It is telling that the writer has never worked for Big Finish again (I seem to remember Peter Davison raised some strong objections at the time, the first time I've ever known that to happen). It is a shame in a way, because he also wrote a story for The Tomorrow People series called The Ghosts of Mendez which is exceptional. I don't think it's entirely fair to blame/punish the writer. Producer/script editor let it through at the pre-production stages and the director shares responsibility for the finished product. |
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Post by Ela on Jun 15, 2018 16:32:40 GMT
Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily assume that this story is the reason the writer has never worked for Big Finish again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 1:26:34 GMT
So, I was briefly skimming through wiki finding out what else Atkinson wrote and there's this archived interview with the author from 2004, which people might find of interest. I'm certain there's still a good story yet to be written for the concept of "corporate vs. ancient world". The problem here is the same found in stories like The Twin Dilemma. A horrific experience befalls a character, one of our protagonists... but it's never dealt with beyond the initial scene. There's no confrontation, directly or indirectly, no discussion among friends, nothing. Just War works because the effects of Benny's torture by Wolff carries across through the story to the end, where the Doctor (maybe) convinces Wolff to commit suicide. And long past, Just War, as well. It actually lingers four releases on until Happy Endings where he confides in Alistair about what was done to her. He still feels responsible. It's actually an excellent exercise in how not to write "cool and detached" characters, Nekromanteia, because they still feel things beneath the detachment. They just don't express it. Unless the situation warrants it. The Fourth Doctor is very breezy and lackadaisical examining the crushed worlds of The Pirate Planet, until the Captain asks him to appreciate it. Appreciate this mad rampage of his across the universe. And he just explodes. " Then, what's it for?! What are you doing? What could possibly be worth all this?" If that scene with Erimem has to be in here -- and I don't think it does -- that's what we're missing from this story. Erimem, the Doctor or Peri turning around and saying this isn't acceptable. I can see Five making Harlon's life very difficult after he leaves. |
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Post by fantasticalice on Jun 16, 2018 16:06:10 GMT
So, I was briefly skimming through wiki finding out what else Atkinson wrote and there's this archived interview with the author from 2004, which people might find of interest. I'm certain there's still a good story yet to be written for the concept of "corporate vs. ancient world". The problem here is the same found in stories like The Twin Dilemma. A horrific experience befalls a character, one of our protagonists... but it's never dealt with beyond the initial scene. There's no confrontation, directly or indirectly, no discussion among friends, nothing. Just War works because the effects of Benny's torture by Wolff carries across through the story to the end, where the Doctor (maybe) convinces Wolff to commit suicide. And long past, Just War, as well. It actually lingers four releases on until Happy Endings where he confides in Alistair about what was done to her. He still feels responsible. It's actually an excellent exercise in how not to write "cool and detached" characters, Nekromanteia, because they still feel things beneath the detachment. They just don't express it. Unless the situation warrants it. The Fourth Doctor is very breezy and lackadaisical examining the crushed worlds of The Pirate Planet, until the Captain asks him to appreciate it. Appreciate this mad rampage of his across the universe. And he just explodes. " Then, what's it for?! What are you doing? What could possibly be worth all this?" If that scene with Erimem has to be in here -- and I don't think it does -- that's what we're missing from this story. Erimem, the Doctor or Peri turning around and saying this isn't acceptable. I can see Five making Harlon's life very difficult after he leaves. His comments about the "dark moment" are quite frankly insulting. Actually really insulting and rather offensive. Knowing wht the " dark moment" is and implying that 20th century women are weak and that Erimem somehow is absolved of ghis weakness shows a pathological misunderstanding of what rape is and how affects a human being. Given his utterly detestable lack of understanding on what these "dark moments" are this may be why he has the rapist later shown as a hero, doesn't properly address what happened , and has her have the crap beaten out of her as well. It's horrifying to hear it talked about so clinically with it being implied that a 20th century woman is too weak to move past it. Also it's not ambiguous. If someone is trying to sexually assault someone and is able to successfully beat the crap out of them for resisting; the sexual assault will either be a part of the beating or will happen after they are then too weak from the beating to resist. |
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Post by davygallagher on Jun 16, 2018 16:28:21 GMT
So, I was briefly skimming through wiki finding out what else Atkinson wrote and there's this archived interview with the author from 2004, which people might find of interest. I'm certain there's still a good story yet to be written for the concept of "corporate vs. ancient world". The problem here is the same found in stories like The Twin Dilemma. A horrific experience befalls a character, one of our protagonists... but it's never dealt with beyond the initial scene. There's no confrontation, directly or indirectly, no discussion among friends, nothing. Just War works because the effects of Benny's torture by Wolff carries across through the story to the end, where the Doctor (maybe) convinces Wolff to commit suicide. And long past, Just War, as well. It actually lingers four releases on until Happy Endings where he confides in Alistair about what was done to her. He still feels responsible. It's actually an excellent exercise in how not to write "cool and detached" characters, Nekromanteia, because they still feel things beneath the detachment. They just don't express it. Unless the situation warrants it. The Fourth Doctor is very breezy and lackadaisical examining the crushed worlds of The Pirate Planet, until the Captain asks him to appreciate it. Appreciate this mad rampage of his across the universe. And he just explodes. " Then, what's it for?! What are you doing? What could possibly be worth all this?" If that scene with Erimem has to be in here -- and I don't think it does -- that's what we're missing from this story. Erimem, the Doctor or Peri turning around and saying this isn't acceptable. I can see Five making Harlon's life very difficult after he leaves. His comments about the "dark moment" are quite frankly insulting. Actually really insulting and rather offensive. Knowing wht the " dark moment" is and implying that 20th century women are weak and that Erimem somehow is absolved of ghis weakness shows a pathological misunderstanding of what rape is and how affects a human being. Given his utterly detestable lack of understanding on what these "dark moments" are this may be why he has the rapist later shown as a hero, doesn't properly address what happened , and has her have the crap beaten out of her as well. It's horrifying to hear it talked about so clinically with it being implied that a 20th century woman is too weak to move past it. Also it's not ambiguous. If someone is trying to sexually assault someone and is able to successfully beat the crap out of them for resisting; the sexual assault will either be a part of the beating or will happen after they are then too weak from the beating to resist. I always find your posts very insightful Alice. I know you've spoken frankly about your experiences and they've given me pause for thought when thinking about posting in a well intentioned but uninformed way about issues like the above on the forum. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 23:39:44 GMT
So, I was briefly skimming through wiki finding out what else Atkinson wrote and there's this archived interview with the author from 2004, which people might find of interest. I'm certain there's still a good story yet to be written for the concept of "corporate vs. ancient world". The problem here is the same found in stories like The Twin Dilemma. A horrific experience befalls a character, one of our protagonists... but it's never dealt with beyond the initial scene. There's no confrontation, directly or indirectly, no discussion among friends, nothing. Just War works because the effects of Benny's torture by Wolff carries across through the story to the end, where the Doctor (maybe) convinces Wolff to commit suicide. And long past, Just War, as well. It actually lingers four releases on until Happy Endings where he confides in Alistair about what was done to her. He still feels responsible. It's actually an excellent exercise in how not to write "cool and detached" characters, Nekromanteia, because they still feel things beneath the detachment. They just don't express it. Unless the situation warrants it. The Fourth Doctor is very breezy and lackadaisical examining the crushed worlds of The Pirate Planet, until the Captain asks him to appreciate it. Appreciate this mad rampage of his across the universe. And he just explodes. " Then, what's it for?! What are you doing? What could possibly be worth all this?" If that scene with Erimem has to be in here -- and I don't think it does -- that's what we're missing from this story. Erimem, the Doctor or Peri turning around and saying this isn't acceptable. I can see Five making Harlon's life very difficult after he leaves. His comments about the "dark moment" are quite frankly insulting. Actually really insulting and rather offensive. Knowing wht the " dark moment" is and implying that 20th century women are weak and that Erimem somehow is absolved of ghis weakness shows a pathological misunderstanding of what rape is and how affects a human being. Given his utterly detestable lack of understanding on what these "dark moments" are this may be why he has the rapist later shown as a hero, doesn't properly address what happened , and has her have the crap beaten out of her as well. It's horrifying to hear it talked about so clinically with it being implied that a 20th century woman is too weak to move past it. Also it's not ambiguous. If someone is trying to sexually assault someone and is able to successfully beat the crap out of them for resisting; the sexual assault will either be a part of the beating or will happen after they are then too weak from the beating to resist. Yes, to all of it. It's a disgusting approach. (Also, if I have offended at any point, I apologise unreservedly. I have an aunt who speaks very frankly on topics like this and has done so since I was young. She worked in the police force. It's very easy to forget that frankness doesn't extend to other circumstances. So if I've wronged you in any way by that post, I am sorry.) His comments about the "dark moment" are quite frankly insulting. Actually really insulting and rather offensive. Knowing wht the " dark moment" is and implying that 20th century women are weak and that Erimem somehow is absolved of ghis weakness shows a pathological misunderstanding of what rape is and how affects a human being. Given his utterly detestable lack of understanding on what these "dark moments" are this may be why he has the rapist later shown as a hero, doesn't properly address what happened , and has her have the crap beaten out of her as well. It's horrifying to hear it talked about so clinically with it being implied that a 20th century woman is too weak to move past it. Also it's not ambiguous. If someone is trying to sexually assault someone and is able to successfully beat the crap out of them for resisting; the sexual assault will either be a part of the beating or will happen after they are then too weak from the beating to resist. I always find your posts very insightful Alice. I know you've spoken frankly about your experiences and they've given me pause for thought when thinking about posting in a well intentioned but uninformed way about issues like the above on the forum. Thank you, Davy, but I am aware and I am informed. Things I will not repeat here and things I frankly don't want to dwell too much on. |
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Post by davygallagher on Jun 16, 2018 23:48:23 GMT
I always find your posts very insightful Alice. I know you've spoken frankly about your experiences and they've given me pause for thought when thinking about posting in a well intentioned but uninformed way about issues like the above on the forum. Thank you, Davy, but I am aware and I am informed. Things I will not repeat here and things I frankly don't want to dwell too much on. I never said nor implied otherwise, though you've inferred it clearly. My post was directed to Alice in praise of her words and how they've made me think twice. You're reading something that isn't there. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 23:52:28 GMT
Thank you, Davy, but I am aware and I am informed. Things I will not repeat here and things I frankly don't want to dwell too much on. I never said nor implied otherwise, though you've inferred it clearly. My post was directed to Alice in praise of her words and how they've made me think twice. You're reading something that isn't there. Okay. If that wasn't your intention, it wasn't your intention. Fair enough. I get a bit twitchy on this subject. For fairly obvious reasons, it affects close family. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 7:44:54 GMT
I really expected to hate this, after the negative buildup I've been hearing for years. The story premise was interesting, but became convoluted and hard to follow. And, of course, there are the aforementioned "unnecessary" plot points. Though I did get the impression the Erimem beat the crap out of her attacker. I have also avoided this due to what i had read previously.I could be wrong in what i picked up but life is tough enough without me listening to it being tough on audio lol. Is it worth the listen? |
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Stevo
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Post by Stevo on Aug 11, 2018 15:50:21 GMT
I really expected to hate this, after the negative buildup I've been hearing for years. Is it worth the listen? I think everything is worth a listen... even if you end up not liking something it's still best to judge stories for yourself. Personally, I don't think Nekromanteia is as bad as it's made out to be, but the missus absolutely hated it. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 18:53:20 GMT
I think everything is worth a listen... even if you end up not liking something it's still best to judge stories for yourself. Personally, I don't think Nekromanteia is as bad as it's made out to be, but the missus absolutely hated it. It is back on the list then for later lol |
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Post by Ela on Aug 12, 2018 3:08:48 GMT
I'm a completist, so I get around to everything, eventually. Although this one is on the list of ones I most probably won't revisit.
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