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Post by Hieronymus on Mar 1, 2016 21:06:41 GMT
This story is often maligned, unloved, hated, or variations thereof.
Why do listeners dislike it? What positive point does it have?
I'm listening to the story now, and have some thoughts, but would be interested to hear from others as well.
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Post by Hieronymus on Mar 1, 2016 21:14:35 GMT
At the halfway point, there are three points about the story that I dislike:
(1) Tediousness - The characters spend their time talking over and over endlessly about the plot, without doing much. We need more exposition in an audio format than a visual format, but the way the dialogue is handled makes this story tedious. Reaching any point takes far more talking than it should, and I usually figure out where the conversation is going long before the characters get there, as if most of the dialogue time is filler. The result is a tediousness to the way the story is presented. Monty Python would say: "Get on with it!"
(2) Sophomoric humor - Clever gags and offhand jokes can be done well in Doctor Who, and often are. But the gags and humor in The Dark Husband are low-brow, and the jokes mostly feel forced and unnatural.
(3) Small cast - Big Finish scripts are usually better about this. Either the small cast size is cleverly hidden with multiple roles, fast pacing, and such, or else the smallness of the cast is a story point engendering isolation and danger. But here, the events suggest there ought to be lots and lots of people, but there are only two guest characters doing all the talking all the time, and the guest characters even go so far as to point this out in the dialog.
But (again, at the halfway point) these are the only real difficulties of the story I've noticed so far. The story is certainly a bit odd, but it isn't bad as far as I can tell.
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Post by omega on Mar 1, 2016 21:40:11 GMT
And how does the characterisation of the Seventh Doctor, Ace and Hex stack up?
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Post by Hieronymus on Mar 1, 2016 22:00:55 GMT
And how does the characterisation of the Seventh Doctor, Ace and Hex stack up? Not much different from their usual characters, in my estimation. They are slightly caricatured, but all the characters in this story are a bit two-dimensional. |
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Post by jasonward on Mar 1, 2016 22:05:18 GMT
For me the story was OK, could have been good, but the monotony was ... monotonous, and for me the characterisations were somewhat off, especially I recall The Doctor.
I didn't mind the small cast, there's no reason that should stop the story working, the story was an idea that could have worked, but didn't hit the mark.
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Post by Timelord007 on Mar 1, 2016 22:18:25 GMT
Awful & dull.
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Post by omega on Mar 2, 2016 4:13:18 GMT
And how does the characterisation of the Seventh Doctor, Ace and Hex stack up? Not much different from their usual characters, in my estimation. They are slightly caricatured, but all the characters in this story are a bit two-dimensional. There is no way the Hex in the dark husband is the Hex in the other stories. In dark husband he's a stereotypical booze boy who only thinks about his next drink while normally he's curious, sensitive and has a strong desire to help people. Early on he showed some degree of naivety but developed as the moral compass for this TARDIS team when he learned of the morally questionable things the Seventh Doctor did. The writer did little to no research when it came to Hex, his background as a nurse isn't even mentioned*! The only bit of his background relating to alcohol is that he liked to have a drink with his mates at the Rabbit after work. How is that caricatured as boozy lad? *if it is mentioned I can't remember it, though considering the story that's a blessing |
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Post by mark687 on Mar 2, 2016 10:27:09 GMT
I think the second post sums it up perfectly.
Strangely though I could see it as a 5th Doc Tegan and Turlough and almost working.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Hieronymus on Mar 2, 2016 17:21:53 GMT
There is no way the Hex in the dark husband is the Hex in the other stories. In dark husband he's a stereotypical booze boy who only thinks about his next drink while normally he's curious, sensitive and has a strong desire to help people. Early on he showed some degree of naivety but developed as the moral compass for this TARDIS team when he learned of the morally questionable things the Seventh Doctor did. The writer did little to no research when it came to Hex, his background as a nurse isn't even mentioned*! The only bit of his background relating to alcohol is that he liked to have a drink with his mates at the Rabbit after work. How is that caricatured as boozy lad? *if it is mentioned I can't remember it, though considering the story that's a blessing His medical is alluded to a couple of times without being explicitly mentioned. There's very little for a moral compass to do in this story until near the end, and Hex steps forward at that moment. {Spoiler}
The Seventh Doctor is trying to stop a war, which is a good thing. It's only when the Doctor realizes his mistake about no understanding fully what is happening that he pulls out of his plan, at which point Hex steps forward to fill that need. So, I don't see that his moral resolve is weakened at any point in the story, but I will concede his portrayal is a bit stereotypical. None of the characters have much depth in this story. |
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Post by mrperson on Mar 2, 2016 18:41:50 GMT
At the halfway point, there are three points about the story that I dislike: (1) Tediousness - The characters spend their time talking over and over endlessly about the plot, without doing much. We need more exposition in an audio format than a visual format, but the way the dialogue is handled makes this story tedious. Reaching any point takes far more talking than it should, and I usually figure out where the conversation is going long before the characters get there, as if most of the dialogue time is filler. The result is a tediousness to the way the story is presented. Monty Python would say: "Get on with it!" (2) Sophomoric humor - Clever gags and offhand jokes can be done well in Doctor Who, and often are. But the gags and humor in The Dark Husband are low-brow, and the jokes mostly feel forced and unnatural. (3) Small cast - Big Finish scripts are usually better about this. Either the small cast size is cleverly hidden with multiple roles, fast pacing, and such, or else the smallness of the cast is a story point engendering isolation and danger. But here, the events suggest there ought to be lots and lots of people, but there are only two guest characters doing all the talking all the time, and the guest characters even go so far as to point this out in the dialog. But (again, at the halfway point) these are the only real difficulties of the story I've noticed so far. The story is certainly a bit odd, but it isn't bad as far as I can tell. I'd also say the characterization is off. 7 is generally the master planner, but here he acts recklessly without having the slightest clue about what he's doing. And Hex is reduced to "yay beer!" For me, it just wasn't compelling. I'm not sure I can put my finger on an exact reason why. The plot and resolution felt a little contrived or forced. I don't have much feeling for it one way or the other. |
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Post by icecreamdf on Mar 2, 2016 19:29:21 GMT
From what I remember, it was a pretty average episode. It wasn't anything special, but it wasn't bad, and it had some funny moments.
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Post by gregm on Mar 3, 2016 6:23:51 GMT
It's been a long time since I heard this, but I do not recall anything that awful about it. There are any number of Big Finish stories I think far less of, but I shan't make a list - I merely comment to indicate the dislike is not universal.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759 
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Post by bobod on Mar 3, 2016 12:46:52 GMT
There is no way the Hex in the dark husband is the Hex in the other stories. In dark husband he's a stereotypical booze boy who only thinks about his next drink while normally he's curious, sensitive and has a strong desire to help people. Early on he showed some degree of naivety but developed as the moral compass for this TARDIS team when he learned of the morally questionable things the Seventh Doctor did. The writer did little to no research when it came to Hex, his background as a nurse isn't even mentioned*! The only bit of his background relating to alcohol is that he liked to have a drink with his mates at the Rabbit after work. How is that caricatured as boozy lad? *if it is mentioned I can't remember it, though considering the story that's a blessing His medical is alluded to a couple of times without being explicitly mentioned. There's very little for a moral compass to do in this story until near the end, and Hex steps forward at that moment. {Spoiler}
The Seventh Doctor is trying to stop a war, which is a good thing. It's only when the Doctor realizes his mistake about no understanding fully what is happening that he pulls out of his plan, at which point Hex steps forward to fill that need. So, I don't see that his moral resolve is weakened at any point in the story, but I will concede his portrayal is a bit stereotypical. None of the characters have much depth in this story. I have no real problem with Hex in this story - he's keen to get drunk but they are supposed to be on holiday and that seems perfectly in-keeping with young medical professionals needing to let their hair down. Perhaps it's a less-rounded version than in other stories, but it's not a *wrong* version.
At times when characters don't behave *exactly* as in other stories, they get accused of being out of character - cf Nyssa in Winter for the Adept, she had a perfectly valid reason to be really brassed off with the Doctor but people said she was out of character because she was too grumpy.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Mar 3, 2016 12:52:48 GMT
Not much different from their usual characters, in my estimation. They are slightly caricatured, but all the characters in this story are a bit two-dimensional. There is no way the Hex in the dark husband is the Hex in the other stories. In dark husband he's a stereotypical booze boy who only thinks about his next drink while normally he's curious, sensitive and has a strong desire to help people. Early on he showed some degree of naivety but developed as the moral compass for this TARDIS team when he learned of the morally questionable things the Seventh Doctor did. The writer did little to no research when it came to Hex, his background as a nurse isn't even mentioned*! The only bit of his background relating to alcohol is that he liked to have a drink with his mates at the Rabbit after work. How is that caricatured as boozy lad? *if it is mentioned I can't remember it, though considering the story that's a blessing I think you're picturing his after-works drinks as somewhat more genteel than what they would have been. He'd have been going out and getting hammered. |
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Post by Ela on Mar 3, 2016 16:12:12 GMT
It's been a long time since I heard this, but I do not recall anything that awful about it. There are any number of Big Finish stories I think far less of, but I shan't make a list - I merely comment to indicate the dislike is not universal. This. I remember hearing all the hype about how bad this story was. But I didn't think it was all that bad. Then again, it has been a while since I listened. |
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Post by newt5996 on Oct 3, 2017 20:24:27 GMT
At the halfway point, there are three points about the story that I dislike: (1) Tediousness - The characters spend their time talking over and over endlessly about the plot, without doing much. We need more exposition in an audio format than a visual format, but the way the dialogue is handled makes this story tedious. Reaching any point takes far more talking than it should, and I usually figure out where the conversation is going long before the characters get there, as if most of the dialogue time is filler. The result is a tediousness to the way the story is presented. Monty Python would say: "Get on with it!" (2) Sophomoric humor - Clever gags and offhand jokes can be done well in Doctor Who, and often are. But the gags and humor in The Dark Husband are low-brow, and the jokes mostly feel forced and unnatural. (3) Small cast - Big Finish scripts are usually better about this. Either the small cast size is cleverly hidden with multiple roles, fast pacing, and such, or else the smallness of the cast is a story point engendering isolation and danger. But here, the events suggest there ought to be lots and lots of people, but there are only two guest characters doing all the talking all the time, and the guest characters even go so far as to point this out in the dialog. But (again, at the halfway point) these are the only real difficulties of the story I've noticed so far. The story is certainly a bit odd, but it isn't bad as far as I can tell. I'm halfway listening to this story for the first time at the moment and I have to agree with all these points. Spoilers of course (I'm not sure how to do the spoiler tags) but the only plot is The Doctor, Ace and Hex arrive, the Doctor proposes marriage, he gets shot, and is about to be sacrificed. I'd also say that McCoy seems to be the only one enjoying himself with Ace's dialogue being very awkward and Hex being portrayed as if he's an alcoholic. The two supporting characters are kind of dumb and I don't know where it is going (and I don't mean that in a good way). |
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Post by mark687 on Oct 3, 2017 20:28:15 GMT
At the halfway point, there are three points about the story that I dislike: (1) Tediousness - The characters spend their time talking over and over endlessly about the plot, without doing much. We need more exposition in an audio format than a visual format, but the way the dialogue is handled makes this story tedious. Reaching any point takes far more talking than it should, and I usually figure out where the conversation is going long before the characters get there, as if most of the dialogue time is filler. The result is a tediousness to the way the story is presented. Monty Python would say: "Get on with it!" (2) Sophomoric humor - Clever gags and offhand jokes can be done well in Doctor Who, and often are. But the gags and humor in The Dark Husband are low-brow, and the jokes mostly feel forced and unnatural. (3) Small cast - Big Finish scripts are usually better about this. Either the small cast size is cleverly hidden with multiple roles, fast pacing, and such, or else the smallness of the cast is a story point engendering isolation and danger. But here, the events suggest there ought to be lots and lots of people, but there are only two guest characters doing all the talking all the time, and the guest characters even go so far as to point this out in the dialog. But (again, at the halfway point) these are the only real difficulties of the story I've noticed so far. The story is certainly a bit odd, but it isn't bad as far as I can tell. I'm halfway listening to this story for the first time at the moment and I have to agree with all these points. Spoilers of course (I'm not sure how to do the spoiler tags) but the only plot is The Doctor, Ace and Hex arrive, the Doctor proposes marriage, he gets shot, and is about to be sacrificed. I'd also say that McCoy seems to be the only one enjoying himself with Ace's dialogue being very awkward and Hex being portrayed as if he's an alcoholic. The two supporting characters are kind of dumb and I don't know where it is going (and I don't mean that in a good way). If you drink have one and press on 
Its bizarrely bad
Regards
mark687
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Post by newt5996 on Oct 3, 2017 20:52:10 GMT
I'm halfway listening to this story for the first time at the moment and I have to agree with all these points. Spoilers of course (I'm not sure how to do the spoiler tags) but the only plot is The Doctor, Ace and Hex arrive, the Doctor proposes marriage, he gets shot, and is about to be sacrificed. I'd also say that McCoy seems to be the only one enjoying himself with Ace's dialogue being very awkward and Hex being portrayed as if he's an alcoholic. The two supporting characters are kind of dumb and I don't know where it is going (and I don't mean that in a good way). If you drink have one and press on
Its bizarrely bad
Regards
mark687
Damn you USA drinking age restriction! I'll probably finish it later this week |
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Post by omega on Jun 29, 2018 22:10:10 GMT
DOCTOR WHO - MAIN RANGE » 106. THE DARK HUSBAND Synopsis"This whole wedding is like making a nuclear bomb with half the instructions missing!"A week-long respite from a prolonged and bloody war, the Festival of the Twin Moons of Tuin makes Glastonbury look like a church fete... or so the brochure says. The Doctor and Ace are looking for rest and recreation. Hex is looking for the beer tent. But eternal enemies the ginger-haired Ri and the coot-bald Ir are plotting to turn their Festival truce to their own advantage. Only the Dark Husband might stop the celebrations turning to horror... but who is the Dark Husband? And what terror awaits him on his wedding night? If anyone knows any just cause or impediment... speak now. The lives of billions depend on it. Written By: David Quantick Directed By: Nicholas Briggs CASTSylvester McCoy (The Doctor); Sophie Aldred (Ace); Philip Olivier (Hex); Danny Webb (Ori); Andy B Newb (Irit); Benny Dawb (Tuin); Katarina Olsson & Sean Connolly (The Bards)
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Post by omega on Jun 29, 2018 22:12:45 GMT
Week 4 of the Hex listen-through notthebigfinishforum.freeforums.net/thread/4463/oh-god-hex-listenThere are two things that make this a very poor story for me. The humour, and how Hex is written. Even if he's so devastated by the last two stories that he needs to drown his sorrows, the last thing I'd expect him to do would be to call someone a ginga minga. Plus, the writer commits a mistake with Hex's background. When the Doctor is talking about war and death just after they arrive, Hex remarks that he thought his mam could be a downer. STOP! Hex never got to know Cassie, that's going to be very important later and it's already been established that Hex grew up with his grandmother. Basically this isn't the Hex we know and love, it's a Hex who is a total stranger. The humour is misjudged in a lot of places. The first episode is almost a parody of the Seventh Doctor's manipulative aspect, as he not only anticipates Ace or Hex will go to the bathroom where he's planted the Tuin brochure, but that he will arrive shortly before the festival, and thus deliberately lands them in a narrow danger window. There's no indication the Doctor has to offer himself as the Dark Husband at any specific time, so it comes off as padding. The grossout humour doesn't land either. The story starts with Hex being spattered with snot shots, and then there's his name meaning something to Ori that is so rude it can only be drawn in a pool of ale, setting up the awful "Hox" "HEX!" gag. David Quantick is known for comedy, sure, but in comedy it very much depends on tone. Stories like Kingmaker, Peri and the Piscon Paradox and The Fourth Wall have comedic elements that work because there's a serious side to counterbalance the comedy and prevent it from going overboard like it does here. The second episode has a exposition scene that jumps between the Doctor in the Chamber of Contemplation, Ace with Irit and Hex with Ori. Fine idea, but we and the Doctor, Ace and Hex learn very little. There's also the Doctor's first encounter with the Bards. It turns into a Press 1 for Inconvenience gag which even in hindsight, realising it was a Chekov's Press 1 for Inconvenience, irritates me after a recent experience with automated phone trees, being transferred and hold music. Again, we don't learn anything and it's purely set-up for the delaying tactic the Doctor pulls in the climax. |
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