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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 10:41:18 GMT
Agreed. For me too series 10 was the highlight so far. Oh, definitely. World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls feels like its up there with Time of the Angels/Flesh and Stone, Vincent and the Doctor, The Snowmen and Heaven Sent for me. Just really good television. All that build up with an excellent payoff. For me too. I had two friends - not huge fans of the show - independently call me to make sure I was watching 'World Enough and Time' as it was being broadcast (I was!).
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Post by doctorkernow on Jul 7, 2020 12:40:51 GMT
Hello again.
I too am a great fan of the Capaldi era. I loved Series 8 and thought the new dynamic between Clara and the 12th Doctor was interesting as was the relationship between Clara and Danny. This was a complete contrast to the relationship between Amy and Rory. Series 9 was a little bit of a mistep for me, but even here we had some interesting ideas. Face the Raven and The Zygon Inversion/Invasion were highlights for me as was Peter Capaldi's bravura solo outing Heaven Sent.
Series 10 definitely benefitted from the year off. I loved the dynamic of Twelve, Bill and Nardole and while the trilogy at the heart of the series was a bit woolly, the Monks themselves were really creepy. The finale was a real celebration of the Moffatt era. A Doctor at the top of his game, two companions that I really loved, a set of implacable enemies and the teamup of Missy and the Master. Add to this a really Gothic and terrifying depiction of the horrors of Cyberconversion and you have a true classic of the modern era.
I think it should have ended there. While there were bits of Twice Upon a Time I liked, I think The Woman Who Fell to Earth would have made an interesting Christmas special.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 7, 2020 15:16:43 GMT
Empress of Mars I am totally not ashamed to say that I mainly rewatched this one one for the gorgeous steampunk aesthetic and especially the super sexy TARDIS blue space suits!😉 Other than the the gorgeous visuals I enjoy 12, Bill, and Nardole’s dynamic as always, the intense performance of the Ice Queen, and Alpha Centauri’s appearance at the end. I just love the combination of Ice Warriors and Victorian on Mars! 😊 My one main gripe is that the death scenes are far too goofy🤔 I have nothing against black comedy deaths in Doctor Who, but this was more just too silly the way the basically crumple up into bouncy balls! I think they should have tried to play their crumpling more for horror than turning them into bouncy balls! 🤔😕Other than it’s a fun and gorgeously designed filler episode😊
Side note: I really wish we could have those beautiful blue spacesuits for more episodes during 12’s tenure than just this one! They just look so good (especially on 12😉)! I can just picture 12 and Clara wearing these beauties on some adventures!😊
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 7, 2020 15:35:09 GMT
The Next Doctor. Very enjoyable.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 7, 2020 15:36:21 GMT
Empress of Mars I am totally not ashamed to say that I mainly rewatched this one one for the gorgeous steampunk aesthetic and especially the super sexy TARDIS blue space suits!😉 Other than the gorgeous the gorgeous visuals I enjoy 12, Bill, and Nardole’s dynamic as always, the intense performance of the Ice Queen, and Alpha Centauri’s appearance at the end. I just love the combination of Ice Warriors and Victorian on Mars! 😊 My one main gripe is that the death scenes are far too goofy🤔 I have nothing against black comedy deaths in Doctor Who, but this was more just too silly the way the basically crumple up into bouncy balls! I think they should have tried to play their crumpling more for horror than turning them into bouncy balls! 🤔😕Other than it’s a fun and gorgeously designed filler episode😊 Side note: I really wish we could have those beautiful blue spacesuits for more episodes during 12’s tenure than just this one! They just look so good (especially on 12😉)! I can just picture 12 and Clara wearing these beauties on some adventures!😊 Always gives me Thrill Chills (and I'm not even a big fan of the Peladon stories ) Regards mark687
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Post by timegirl on Jul 7, 2020 16:59:07 GMT
I think I know what you mean about Clara’s reaction to Danny fate, she was unusually cruel to 12 at first 🤔 What’s your favorite 12 and Clara episode? I have quite a few but my favorite is definitely Last Christmas 😊 Don’t worry if not, but out of curiosity do you like 12 and Clara as a romantic couple? Because I was always fascinated by that angle of their Doctor Companion relationship 🤔😊 To answer your last question first - there were moments, toward the end of Matt's time, when it was hinted that he 'fancied' her. I never quite understood where that was going, or what it could possibly lead to. Maybe the seeds were planted to spill over to Doctor Twelve's era, but I don't know. I think ultimately they had rather more of a father/daughter relationship, and felt he was convinced Danny Pink wasn't good enough for her, as a father would be. Or maybe an eccentric uncle. I'd not thought of them as a romantic couple, but his jibes towards her looks - when Clara is clearly very attractive - are the conversations people in love might have. Hmm. I'll have to think about this!
As for my favourite episode - 'Last Christmas' might be the one for me too, although the Doctor's line in 'Dark Water', "Do you think I care for you so little that youe betrayal would make any difference to me?" (or something like that) I think is magical.
Do think about it 🤔😊 Once you consider the possibility of 12 and Clara as romantic rather than parental you might start to notice things play differently between 12 and Clara 😉I can definitely see where you might get the parental interpretation because of the age difference, but maybe try imagining the same scenes with 12 and Clara but imagine that they are the same age and then see if it feels parental or romantic😉 Also if you look closely and ignore the age difference 12’s dislike of Danny is more motivated out of jealousy of him wanting to be with Clara romantically rather than fatherly concern. Also check out this interview: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2s 😀
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 17:10:20 GMT
To answer your last question first - there were moments, toward the end of Matt's time, when it was hinted that he 'fancied' her. I never quite understood where that was going, or what it could possibly lead to. Maybe the seeds were planted to spill over to Doctor Twelve's era, but I don't know. I think ultimately they had rather more of a father/daughter relationship, and felt he was convinced Danny Pink wasn't good enough for her, as a father would be. Or maybe an eccentric uncle. I'd not thought of them as a romantic couple, but his jibes towards her looks - when Clara is clearly very attractive - are the conversations people in love might have. Hmm. I'll have to think about this!
As for my favourite episode - 'Last Christmas' might be the one for me too, although the Doctor's line in 'Dark Water', "Do you think I care for you so little that youe betrayal would make any difference to me?" (or something like that) I think is magical.
Do think about it 🤔😊 Once you consider the possibility of 12 and Clara as romantic rather than parental you might start to notice things play differently between 12 and Clara 😉I can definitely see where you might get the parental interpretation because of the age difference, but maybe try imagining the same scenes with 12 and Clara but imagine that they are the same age and then see if it feels parental or romantic😉 Also if you look closely and ignore the age difference 12’s dislike of Danny is more motivated out of jealousy of him wanting to be with Clara romantically rather than fatherly concern. Also check out this interview: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2s 😀 It's very interesting that Peter talks about his Doctor looking after Clara, and that she describes herself as his 'carer' (in 'In the Dalek'). Then there was the business of Clara being a 'control freak', which was spoken of as it was obvious - when I didn't find it so. It seemed the Doctor was happy to let Clara think she was looking after him, when he was looking after her - but she was looking after him! It's telling that we're discussing this relationship even now - it was certainly a complex one, and a fine one. This is why I didn't enjoy Clara's parting words to Doctor 12 in his final story. 'Stupid old man,' was it? Unnecessarily unkind, the kind of thing Amy Pond would say in her 'I'm only saying it because I love him and I'm sassy' kind of way. I never really warmed to Amy.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 7, 2020 17:16:07 GMT
Do think about it 🤔😊 Once you consider the possibility of 12 and Clara as romantic rather than parental you might start to notice things play differently between 12 and Clara 😉I can definitely see where you might get the parental interpretation because of the age difference, but maybe try imagining the same scenes with 12 and Clara but imagine that they are the same age and then see if it feels parental or romantic😉 Also if you look closely and ignore the age difference 12’s dislike of Danny is more motivated out of jealousy of him wanting to be with Clara romantically rather than fatherly concern. Also check out this interview: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2s 😀 It's very interesting that Peter talks about his Doctor looking after Clara, and that she describes herself as his 'carer' (in 'In the Dalek'). Then there was the business of Clara being a 'control freak', which was spoken of as it was obvious - when I didn't find it so. It seemed the Doctor was happy to let Clara think she was looking after him, when he was looking after her - but she was looking after him! It's telling that we're discussing this relationship even now - it was certainly a complex one, and a fine one. This is why I didn't enjoy Clara's parting words to Doctor 12 in his final story. 'Stupid old man,' was it? Unnecessarily unkind, the kind of thing Amy Pond would say in her 'I'm only saying it because I love him and I'm sassy' kind of way. I never really warmed to Amy.
That’s interesting I always had slight issues with Amy too! Something about her just seemed a bit off 🤔 “Stupid old man” was an odd choice of words for the last ones Clara gives to 12, it was meant to be affectionate but perhaps they could have chosen something a bit warmer. 12 and Clara’s relationship is definitely ripe for analysis as you say!🤔😊
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 7, 2020 17:37:21 GMT
Do think about it 🤔😊 Once you consider the possibility of 12 and Clara as romantic rather than parental you might start to notice things play differently between 12 and Clara 😉I can definitely see where you might get the parental interpretation because of the age difference, but maybe try imagining the same scenes with 12 and Clara but imagine that they are the same age and then see if it feels parental or romantic😉 Also if you look closely and ignore the age difference 12’s dislike of Danny is more motivated out of jealousy of him wanting to be with Clara romantically rather than fatherly concern. Also check out this interview: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2s 😀 I never saw their relationship as romantic, for me the idea is unpalatable especially given the fact that Clara has a bf.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 7, 2020 17:53:43 GMT
Do think about it 🤔😊 Once you consider the possibility of 12 and Clara as romantic rather than parental you might start to notice things play differently between 12 and Clara 😉I can definitely see where you might get the parental interpretation because of the age difference, but maybe try imagining the same scenes with 12 and Clara but imagine that they are the same age and then see if it feels parental or romantic😉 Also if you look closely and ignore the age difference 12’s dislike of Danny is more motivated out of jealousy of him wanting to be with Clara romantically rather than fatherly concern. Also check out this interview: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2s 😀 I never saw their relationship as romantic, for me the idea is unpalatable especially given the fact that Clara has a bf. I don’t see it unacceptable I see it more as Clara having to chose between a young slightly more accessible human love interest Danny and an older more exciting but less accessible love interest 12. It’s not exactly a black and white issue there is more of a grey area. That’s my take and I am sticking with it😉
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 17:54:53 GMT
It's very interesting that Peter talks about his Doctor looking after Clara, and that she describes herself as his 'carer' (in 'In the Dalek'). Then there was the business of Clara being a 'control freak', which was spoken of as it was obvious - when I didn't find it so. It seemed the Doctor was happy to let Clara think she was looking after him, when he was looking after her - but she was looking after him! It's telling that we're discussing this relationship even now - it was certainly a complex one, and a fine one. This is why I didn't enjoy Clara's parting words to Doctor 12 in his final story. 'Stupid old man,' was it? Unnecessarily unkind, the kind of thing Amy Pond would say in her 'I'm only saying it because I love him and I'm sassy' kind of way. I never really warmed to Amy.
That’s interesting I always had slight issues with Amy too! Something about her just seemed a bit off 🤔 “Stupid old man” was an odd choice of words for the last ones Clara gives to 12, it was meant to be affectionate but perhaps they could have chosen something a bit warmer. 12 and Clara’s relationship is definitely ripe for analysis as you say!🤔😊 Yep - this affectionate rudeness is very difficult to play. And write, I imagine. I say terrible things to my friends, and they to me, but out of love, to be honest. 'Stupid old man' is just an insult, really. Just as 'moron', and 'stupid-face' or whatever Pond said to Rory to bolster his confidence! No, I wasn't keen on Amy, and Clara's 'stupid old man' line was a reminder that they were both written by the same person (not knocking Steven Moffatt at all, by the way - the man's a genius - but those kind of lines weren't my favourite moments).
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 7, 2020 18:19:27 GMT
Do think about it 🤔😊 Once you consider the possibility of 12 and Clara as romantic rather than parental you might start to notice things play differently between 12 and Clara 😉I can definitely see where you might get the parental interpretation because of the age difference, but maybe try imagining the same scenes with 12 and Clara but imagine that they are the same age and then see if it feels parental or romantic😉 Also if you look closely and ignore the age difference 12’s dislike of Danny is more motivated out of jealousy of him wanting to be with Clara romantically rather than fatherly concern. Also check out this interview: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2s 😀 I never saw their relationship as romantic, for me the idea is unpalatable especially given the fact that Clara has a bf. I agree, it is like Colin Baker says, the Doctor falling in love with a human is like Colin falling in love with a sheep. I find this alien romance creepy. There are horror movies about that. And there is tentacle porn.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 7, 2020 18:37:19 GMT
I never saw their relationship as romantic, for me the idea is unpalatable especially given the fact that Clara has a bf. I agree, it is like Colin Baker says, the Doctor falling in love with a human is like Colin falling in love with a sheep. I find this alien romance creepy. There are horror movies about that. And there is tentacle porn. fair enough 🤷🏻♀️ I do see where you are coming from with it maybe coming across as creepy but I personally see the Doctor as close enough to humanity that it’s okay for them to romance humans (it’s different than tentacle porn).I see wher you are coming though. To be honest if the Doctor was a real person/being and not a fictional character (depending on the incarnation) I would probably choose them over any human male. That’s just me though🤷🏻♀️🤔😉
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 7, 2020 18:47:37 GMT
I agree, it is like Colin Baker says, the Doctor falling in love with a human is like Colin falling in love with a sheep. I find this alien romance creepy. There are horror movies about that. And there is tentacle porn. fair enough 🤷🏻♀️ I do see where you are coming from with it maybe coming across as creepy but I personally see the Doctor as close enough to humanity that it’s okay for them to romance humans (it’s different than tentacle porn).I see wher you are coming though. To be honest if the Doctor was a real person/being and not a fictional character (depending on the incarnation) I would probably choose them over any human male. That’s just me though🤷🏻♀️🤔😉 And there we already have one of the issues "Depending on the Incarnation". It is part of his biology. He might change gender, personality and age. Maybe all at the same time. I am not sure any human would be psychologically equipped to deal with that on a romantic level? I know I would not be. Plus the whole immortal thing. There are epic stories thousands of years old that already deal with the impossibility of loving an immortal/ godlike being.
Apart from being creepy, it just would not work. I had some terrible boyfriends in the past, but I think the Doctor would be even much worse. He looses interest so quick and was just not made for a relationship. It would only end with terrible heartbreak.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 7, 2020 18:49:05 GMT
fair enough 🤷🏻♀️ I do see where you are coming from with it maybe coming across as creepy but I personally see the Doctor as close enough to humanity that it’s okay for them to romance humans (it’s different than tentacle porn).I see wher you are coming though. To be honest if the Doctor was a real person/being and not a fictional character (depending on the incarnation) I would probably choose them over any human male. That’s just me though🤷🏻♀️🤔😉 And there we already have one of the issues "Depending on the Incarnation". It is part of his biology. He might change gender, personality and age. Maybe all at the same time. I am not sure any human would be psychologically equipped to deal with that on a romantic level? I know I would not be. Plus the whole immortal thing. There are epic stories thousands of years old that already deal with the impossibility of loving an immortal/ godlike being.
Apart from being creepy, it just would not work. I had some terrible boyfriends in the past, but I think the Doctor would be even much worse. He looses interest so quick and was just not made for a relationship. It would only end with terrible heartbreak.
That’s very true too 🤔but I still stick with my stance on enjoying those kind of plots🤷🏻♀️🙂
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 7, 2020 18:50:24 GMT
And there we already have one of the issues "Depending on the Incarnation". It is part of his biology. He might change gender, personality and age. Maybe all at the same time. I am not sure any human would be psychologically equipped to deal with that on a romantic level? I know I would not be. Plus the whole immortal thing. There are epic stories thousands of years old that already deal with the impossibility of loving an immortal/ godlike being.
Apart from being creepy, it just would not work. I had some terrible boyfriends in the past, but I think the Doctor would be even much worse. He looses interest so quick and was just not made for a relationship. It would only end with terrible heartbreak.
That’s very true too 🤔 Hence- Scherzo.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 7, 2020 19:44:35 GMT
That’s interesting I always had slight issues with Amy too! Something about her just seemed a bit off 🤔 “Stupid old man” was an odd choice of words for the last ones Clara gives to 12, it was meant to be affectionate but perhaps they could have chosen something a bit warmer. 12 and Clara’s relationship is definitely ripe for analysis as you say!🤔😊 Yep - this affectionate rudeness is very difficult to play. And write, I imagine. I say terrible things to my friends, and they to me, but out of love, to be honest. 'Stupid old man' is just an insult, really. Just as 'moron', and 'stupid-face' or whatever Pond said to Rory to bolster his confidence! No, I wasn't keen on Amy, and Clara's 'stupid old man' line was a reminder that they were both written by the same person (not knocking Steven Moffatt at all, by the way - the man's a genius - but those kind of lines weren't my favourite moments). I love Moffat’s writing, but he definitely has a type of female character he writes 🤔
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 20:01:14 GMT
Yep - this affectionate rudeness is very difficult to play. And write, I imagine. I say terrible things to my friends, and they to me, but out of love, to be honest. 'Stupid old man' is just an insult, really. Just as 'moron', and 'stupid-face' or whatever Pond said to Rory to bolster his confidence! No, I wasn't keen on Amy, and Clara's 'stupid old man' line was a reminder that they were both written by the same person (not knocking Steven Moffatt at all, by the way - the man's a genius - but those kind of lines weren't my favourite moments). I love Moffat’s writing, but he definitely has a type of female character he writes 🤔 He does. My favourite was Bill, looking back. A wise-cracker, for sure, but not a spiteful bone in her body. I'll be watching Eaters of Light later today. Of all the stories from Series 10, that's the one I've watched the least, for some reason.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 7, 2020 20:05:32 GMT
I love Moffat’s writing, but he definitely has a type of female character he writes 🤔 He does. My favourite was Bill, looking back. A wise-cracker, for sure, but not a spiteful bone in her body. I'll be watching Eaters of Light later today. Of all the stories from Series 10, that's the one I've watched the least, for some reason. Bill is fantastic. She was such a nice change of pace. I fell in love with her from the first scene.
Yeah, Eaters of the Light... it has some great scenes and atmosphere, but I think it is let down by the ending and the reveal of the monster. They could have done more with it.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 7, 2020 20:24:01 GMT
He does. My favourite was Bill, looking back. A wise-cracker, for sure, but not a spiteful bone in her body. I'll be watching Eaters of Light later today. Of all the stories from Series 10, that's the one I've watched the least, for some reason. Bill is fantastic. She was such a nice change of pace. I fell in love with her from the first scene.
Yeah, Eaters of the Light... it has some great scenes and atmosphere, but I think it is let down by the ending and the reveal of the monster. They could have done more with it.
She’s a bit like a modern Ace in her way😊 They should give Bill her own BF spin-off about her and Heather’s adventures together 😀
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