|
|
Post by Tim Bradley on Oct 8, 2015 14:16:58 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 17:37:08 GMT
Dare I follow up my seventh doctor timeline thread with another console room related question?
In the BBC novels, the TARDIS console room regenerates into a new, modern looking version, bringing back white roundels but keeping alcoves with a library etc. (there's some beautiful fan art out there in internet land). Does anything in the Eighth Doctor audios suggest what the console room is like, and does this help us verify if the Charley audios in particular come after the novels, or in the gaps early in the series in Vampire Science and War of the Daleks
|
|
|
|
Post by whiskeybrewer on Oct 12, 2015 12:35:14 GMT
The Charley adventures definitely feature the TV Movie console room as in LATE, 8th and 4th talk about the Jules Verneiness of it and how 8th got it from his previous self
|
|
aztec
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,849 
|
Post by aztec on Oct 12, 2015 13:11:26 GMT
Hmm...the older 8th Doctor's tardis also regenerates in Audio: Mary's Story, I've always interpreted the older 8th Doctor as being from the time war (due to his injuries, demenour and recalling various long gone companions) and although Mary describes his ruined tardis in very vague terms, it does still seem to be the TV Movie version, if the Samson and Gemma/Mary/Charley stories were set after the books, I don't think the younger 8th Doctor would be so excited by seeing the Tardis regenerate again, AFAIK Big Finish are still using the TV Movie console sound effect in the audios...
I haven't read that many of the EDA's so far, but Brian's description makes the new tardis sound similar to the War Doctor's (and I think it's most likely this is what it regenerates into in Mary's Story)...I think this is probably just another case of the two product lines being determined to do there own thing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 15:38:25 GMT
Ahh, confusing. I need to plot this out on something more versatile than my mobile phone. I haven't heard company of friends yet but it sounds like it could follow from gallifrey chronicles
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 18:13:28 GMT
OK, so having listened to Mary's Story it's a future Doctor in something that sounds like the TV movie TARDIS but could also be the more modern console room from the later BBC books, which is still large (Anji looked round and saw that the portal they had come through had become two thick, roundel-decorated doors, which were now closing. They were set up three small stairs, on the opposite side of the room from a pair of wooden doors that led to… who knew what? There were four arches, two on each side, leading to massive alcoves. In one Anji could see a mass of filing cabinets and chests, in another shelves of books, ancient and modern, in another some kind of kitchen, in the last a mad professor’s laboratory complete with test tubes and Bunsen burners). He mentions Lucy and Alex as companions, but the list is far from comprehensive, so the alck of Molly etc. doesn't mean it can't be set after Dark Eyes. It does seem reasonable to assume it regenerates into the War Doctor's TARDIS, so I'm going to put them as follows:
- TV Movie & Eight Doctors
- 3 year gap in Vampire Science:
- Doc with Gemma and Sampson
- Doc with Mary Shelley
- Doc with Gemma and Sampson again
- doc with Charley
- BBC Books, with TARDIS remodelling into a new modern design in Escape Velocity :
- Lucie Miller/Dark Eyes/doom Coalition (in the same TARDIS console room as in the later BBC books which sounds the same as the old one)
- Future Doctor in Mary's story probably goes here
- Time War boxed set
Just starting my way through Dark Eyes now, so am prepared to find myself contradicted.
|
|
|
|
Post by constonks on Oct 15, 2015 11:54:33 GMT
Some of my problems with the "three year gap":
- Mary travelled with the Doctor for "years"
- Charley travelled with the Doctor for "years"
- All of the Zagreus, Wormwood, Glorious Dead stuff happening before Vampire Science (young, peppy Doctor).
Some of my problems with the "after Gallifrey Chronicles" placement:
- Why does Romana go from being Louise Brooks (slash Juliet Landau?) to being Lalla Ward again? Like, narratively and in-universe, why?
- The Gallifrey in the MR is clearly the one from the classic series, leading into the Gallifrey series. The Gallifrey from the audio EDAs and Dark Eyes have different presidents, CIA coordinators, etc. Time has passed on Gallifrey.
I personally favour the Interference gap (Eyespider's idea - at the end of Book 2, Fitz is growing in the TARDIS and Compassion is elsewhere) for all stories with Izzy, Mary, Samson, Gemma, Charley and C'rizz.
Interference is totally a season finale and The Blue Angel starts in medias res so who knows how they all met up again.
Basically, my personal timeline document has this:
BBC EDA 1 (Sam)
VNA 61 (Benny)
RT Comics (Stacy and Ssard)
BF MR 123A (Benny)
BBC 2-26 (Sam, Fitz)
McGann graphic novels 1-3 & BF MR 123C (Izzy, Fey, Kroton)
-- Samson & Gemma --
BF 123D-155 (Mary Shelley)
BF Shada
BF 72 etc (Samson & Gemma)
BF MR 16-103 (Charley, C'rizz)
BBC EDA 27-73 & BF MR 123B (Fitz, Compassion, Anji, Trix)
McGann graphic novel 4 (solo, Destrii)
-- The Doctor restores Gallifrey --
BF EDA seasons 1-4
Dark Eyes, Doomco
BF 123D
To me, this just provides the most satisfying narratives for all the characters involved with a minimum amount of time being rewritten (ie. "Yes, Romana comes back from the dead, but at least she hasn't gone back to being Lalla and not knowing what McGann looks like.").
EDIT: oops, Interference Part 2 is Book 26 not 25
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2015 15:59:43 GMT
That works for me. I hadn't realised there was a gap in Interference, it's so long since I read the 8da's. I think somebody said there could be a gap in the dalek novel as well while 8 is looking for sam, but the lack of reference to that search makes that unlikely
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2015 16:00:29 GMT
Let's hope romana ii doesn't turn up in doom coalition, that would really mess things up
|
|
|
|
Post by constonks on Oct 16, 2015 3:09:26 GMT
Just to clarify, there's no explicit gap. There's just no narrative bridge from Interference to The Blue Angel, the same way that there's no bridge between, say, A Christmas Carol and The Impossible Astronaut.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 5:39:34 GMT
Just to clarify, there's no explicit gap. There's just no narrative bridge from Interference to The Blue Angel, the same way that there's no bridge between, say, A Christmas Carol and The Impossible Astronaut. Ahh ok. BTW I've just noticed that on tap a talk whenever I type 8 D without a space, it turns it into a weird emoji, making some of my posts look very odd |
|
|
|
Post by elgranto on Oct 16, 2015 17:44:55 GMT
BBC EDA 1 (Sam) VNA 61 (Benny) RT Comics (Stacy and Ssard) BF MR 123A (Benny) BBC 2-25 (Sam, Fitz) McGann graphic novels 1-3 & BF MR 123C (Izzy, Fey, Kroton) -- Samson & Gemma -- BF 123D-155 (Mary Shelley) BF Shada BF 72 etc (Samson & Gemma) BF MR 16-103 (Charley, C'rizz) BBC EDA 26-73 & BF MR 123B (Fitz, Compassion, Anji, Trix) McGann graphic novel 4 (solo, Destrii) -- The Doctor restores Gallifrey -- BF EDA seasons 1-4 Dark Eyes, Doomco BF 123D This is fairly similar to something I suggested back on the old BF thread. Your's is the superior one though, as I'm sure you're far more familiar with the novels and comics than I am. I'm a bit skeptical on the placement of "Benny's Story" myself, but otherwise this seems very solid.  |
|
|
|
Post by constonks on Oct 17, 2015 13:10:05 GMT
BBC EDA 1 (Sam) VNA 61 (Benny) RT Comics (Stacy and Ssard) BF MR 123A (Benny) BBC 2-25 (Sam, Fitz) McGann graphic novels 1-3 & BF MR 123C (Izzy, Fey, Kroton) -- Samson & Gemma -- BF 123D-155 (Mary Shelley) BF Shada BF 72 etc (Samson & Gemma) BF MR 16-103 (Charley, C'rizz) BBC EDA 26-73 & BF MR 123B (Fitz, Compassion, Anji, Trix) McGann graphic novel 4 (solo, Destrii) -- The Doctor restores Gallifrey -- BF EDA seasons 1-4 Dark Eyes, Doomco BF 123D This is fairly similar to something I suggested back on the old BF thread. Your's is the superior one though, as I'm sure you're far more familiar with the novels and comics than I am. I'm a bit skeptical on the placement of "Benny's Story" myself, but otherwise this seems very solid. Benny's Story really is one that can go anywhere. I honestly only put it there because I have no opinion on its placement and that seems to be the place where people put it - shortly (but not directly) after Dying Days. EDIT: I've just realised I've messed up those numbers - The Blue Angel is Book 27, not 26. Not suggesting a gap in the middle of the Interference cliffhanger. |
|
|
|
Post by elgranto on Nov 21, 2015 2:02:25 GMT
Hi billy2, I've reworked your timeline based on the order suggested by constonks. You can view it here: The Eighth Doctors Timeline.pdf (125.22 KB) I've included the prose Short Trips along with the audio ones; they're marked as (ST) and highlighted in orange. In regard to placement I've referred to the Doctor Who Reference Guide, though a lot of stories could pretty well fit anywhere I admit. Feel free to use this as a guide for your own version if you like. |
|
|
|
Post by Tim Bradley on Nov 21, 2015 11:39:33 GMT
Hi billy2, I've reworked your timeline based on the order suggested by constonks. You can view it here: I've included the prose Short Trips along with the audio ones; they're marked as (ST) and highlighted in orange. In regard to placement I've referred to the Doctor Who Reference Guide, though a lot of stories could pretty well fit anywhere I admit. Feel free to use this as a guide for your own version if you like. Hi elgranto! Thanks very much for your help and providing a very comprehensive timeline for the Eighth Doctor. You certainly know the Eighth Doctor inside out and your inclusions of the books; short trips (both prose and audio) have been remarkably helpful. If you don't mind, I'd like to amend my timeline by matching what you've suggested in your version. I'll acknowledge your contribution in my version of the timeline if that's okay. I'll work on this next Monday to amend the timeline. Thanks for your help. Tim. P.S. I'll now have to add the other prose short trips to the other Doctors' timelines. I've got my work cut out there.  |
|
|
|
Post by elgranto on Nov 21, 2015 18:46:00 GMT
Hi billy2, I've reworked your timeline based on the order suggested by constonks. You can view it here: I've included the prose Short Trips along with the audio ones; they're marked as (ST) and highlighted in orange. In regard to placement I've referred to the Doctor Who Reference Guide, though a lot of stories could pretty well fit anywhere I admit. Feel free to use this as a guide for your own version if you like. Hi elgranto! Thanks very much for your help and providing a very comprehensive timeline for the Eighth Doctor. You certainly know the Eighth Doctor inside out and your inclusions of the books; short trips (both prose and audio) have been remarkably helpful. If you don't mind, I'd like to amend my timeline by matching what you've suggested in your version. I'll acknowledge your contribution in my version of the timeline if that's okay. I'll work on this next Monday to amend the timeline. Thanks for your help. Tim. P.S. I'll now have to add the other prose short trips to the other Doctors' timelines. I've got my work cut out there. Glad you find it helpful, though the credit should really go to constonks. All I did was take his order and give it the 'billy2 treatment'  . If it helps, the DW Reference Guide seems to be a good place to start for figuring out the placement of the prose Short Trips for the other Doctors. EDIT: I've amended my timeline to now include the names of the individual stories in Doom Coalition 2. Other small adjustments have also been done. The Eighth Doctors Timeline.pdf (125.22 KB) |
|
|
|
Post by Digi on Nov 21, 2015 19:13:55 GMT
Mary's Story right near the end? Interesting take. I tend to put it right after the final episode of the EDAs. But then, I also don't bother with books or comics, so those don't factor in to how I interpret things. |
|
|
|
Post by elgranto on Nov 21, 2015 21:03:45 GMT
Mary's Story right near the end? Interesting take. I tend to put it right after the final episode of the EDAs. But then, I also don't bother with books or comics, so those don't factor in to how I interpret things. Having it set, for the future Eight, between To the Death and The Great War is definitely a possibility. With that said, I'm more comfortable placing it during his twilight years since, as Kory Stephens puts it over at History of the Doctor: "...it seems evident (from both the tone of the piece, and the multitude of veiled references that litter it) that for the ‘old’ eighth Doctor, these events take place towards the end of his life; perhaps even during the Last Great Time War. The TARDIS even regenerates at the end of the story, potentially signifying a change to the coral “desktop theme..." The sound effects for the TARDIS console room in Dark Eyes and Doom Coalition still seem to suggest a TV-Movie-like desktop theme. If the TARDIS in "Mary's Story" regenerates in a fashion similar to what it would later do in The Eleventh Hour, then I'd expect there to be a noticeable change in sound design. As things stand, I suspect the regeneration hasn't occurred yet (we might have to wait for The Eighth Doctor - The Time War to hear if the TARDIS sounds any different). |
|
aztec
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,849
|
Post by aztec on Nov 21, 2015 22:53:45 GMT
Mary's Story right near the end? Interesting take. I tend to put it right after the final episode of the EDAs. But then, I also don't bother with books or comics, so those don't factor in to how I interpret things. As I said above I've only ever thought Mary's Story makes sense placed right at the end of Eight's adventures, as something of a celebratory coda to Eight's tenure. The older 8th Doctor seems to be more exhausted and bitter rather than all out angry as he was at the end of the EDA's (i.m.o at least...) and Dark Eyes 1 seems to pick up almost immediately after To The Death (I don't really think there's time or much point from a dramatic point of view for the doctor to go raving angry crashing into a time storm, be injured and crash out in Mary's Villa for a week, meet his younger self and Mary again, regenerate his tardis (which is a petty big event for any doctor to go unmentioned), then still decide to travel to the edge of the Universe and retain the exact same disposition as he did at the of To The Death seems kinda crowded and ruins the dramatic start of Dark Eyes) so I don't think it could really fit here. The various veiled references to the time war-The Older doctor being visibly older angry and bitter (and chastising his younger self for abandoning his companions so readily-suggesting companions are thin on the ground at this point), the badly damaged Tardis being 'infected by vitreous time' in a time storm (I don't think the doctor would allow that to happen if he couldn't help it, sounds like the sort of timey wimey imagery from a time war...doesn't he actually die in the audio before being brought back to life?), later regenerating etc) coupled with various continuity references for 8 (the name drops of various companions from all medias, the call back to the TV Movie (Frankenstein's monster being shown on TV when 7 regenerates to 8) the amnesia/delusion of the older 8th Doctor etc) it just seems deliberately designed to be something of an ending for the Eighth Doctor, especially in a release entitled 'The Company Of Friends'. I also just like the idea that Mary's story takes place just before Night Of The Doctor (and maybe just after 'The Forgotten' haven't read it, but from the wiki it's clearly late in the timewar), with the older doctor at his lowest and angriest trying to hold onto hope after failing to stop the war through neutral means (as shown in The Forgotten?), maybe it's the destruction of his tardis, and the encounter with his younger carefree self (reminding himself of the innocent wide eyed romantic he was in his earliest days) that finally pushes him near the edge into utter despair...he leaves Mary in his newly regenerated Tardis angry at himself and the universe on the very brink, but once again reminded of how he once was, before setting off once more for the Time War...there he intercepts a call for help from a lone pilot named Cass in a doomed spaceship above Karn and realises with sudden hope he may have changed, but still holds himself to his promise to 'help where I can'... I'm currently reading Unnatural History and very much enjoying it (...does anyone know if Jonathan Blum and/or Kate Orman have ever been approached to write for Big Finish?) curious as to see just how explicit the gap in Interference is...though so far I can see why many think it's a struggle putting 8's timeline together... |
|
|
|
Post by elgranto on Nov 22, 2015 1:16:44 GMT
Okay, I've made some final adjustments to my timeline - specifically in regard to 'The End of the Eighth Doctor.' The older Eights appearance in "Mary's Story" is now placed directly before NotD. The Eighth Doctors Timeline.pdf (125.22 KB) I'll let billy2 take over from here. |
|
. If it helps, the DW Reference Guide seems to be a good place to start for figuring out the placement of the prose Short Trips for the other Doctors. 
