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Post by constonks on Jul 9, 2016 13:33:32 GMT
By the time he's traveling with Izzy in The Fallen, the Master is shown to have escaped from the Eye of Harmony. In The Glorious Dead, Kroton places the Master somewhere that he couldn't escape. It could be presumed that that "somewhere" is the Eye of Harmony, since the short story called Forgotten, from Short Trips: The Centenarian, also presents the Master escaping from the Eye of Harmony, but seemingly isn't followed up by a story in which he's placed back in imprisonment, unlike The Fallen. It's also ensured that the Master can't influence the Doctor's TARDIS, such as being able to appear to the Doctor within a mirror in the TARDIS like in The Deadstone Memorial, a BBC novel. Given that the Master is presumably put right back in The Glorious Dead, why can't it take place before The Deadstone Memorial et al? ie. DWM Comics - Master's appearances in the EDAs - The Centenarian: Prologue/Forgotten. EDIT: Oh, I see what you mean. Took me a second. I don't know, I don't think speaking to the Doctor is really "influencing" anything. I haven't read all the EDAs but my understanding is he doesn't control anything from within the TARDIS right? Also, in the flashbacks of The Glorious Dead, the Master's essence seems to go straight through the Eye of Harmony into the vortex, rather than being properly trapped in the Doctor's TARDIS, as is he is in the EDAs. The type of imprisonment he has in the EDAs seems to fit better pre-Centenarian more than it matches the comics, IMO.
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Post by electricmastro on Jul 10, 2016 21:44:05 GMT
By the time he's traveling with Izzy in The Fallen, the Master is shown to have escaped from the Eye of Harmony. In The Glorious Dead, Kroton places the Master somewhere that he couldn't escape. It could be presumed that that "somewhere" is the Eye of Harmony, since the short story called Forgotten, from Short Trips: The Centenarian, also presents the Master escaping from the Eye of Harmony, but seemingly isn't followed up by a story in which he's placed back in imprisonment, unlike The Fallen. It's also ensured that the Master can't influence the Doctor's TARDIS, such as being able to appear to the Doctor within a mirror in the TARDIS like in The Deadstone Memorial, a BBC novel. I don't know, I don't think speaking to the Doctor is really "influencing" anything. I haven't read all the EDAs but my understanding is he doesn't control anything from within the TARDIS right? Also, in the flashbacks of The Glorious Dead, the Master's essence seems to go straight through the Eye of Harmony into the vortex, rather than being properly trapped in the Doctor's TARDIS, as is he is in the EDAs. The type of imprisonment he has in the EDAs seems to fit better pre-Centenarian more than it matches the comics, IMO. From what I've researched, the Master makes four appearances (or cameos) in BBC Book's Eighth Doctor Adventures series: The Eight Doctors, Sometime Never..., The Deadstone Memorial, and The Gallifrey Chronicles. I'm excluding Legacy of the Daleks since the Master presented in that story is presumed to be the Roger Delgado Master, as it's mentioned that he's severely deformed by his own Tissue Compression Eliminator and left in a moribund state in that story, possibly leading into The Deadly Assassin. Anyway, I didn't mean to express that the Master simply speaking to the Doctor was influencing anything, it was the Master appearing within a mirror in the TARDIS. It's presented in the EDA books that during the Master's imprisonment, the Doctor would come to a room where the Master dwelled on several occasions. It seemed that in this room, The Master's face was actually on a screen and he would speak to the Doctor from this screen, but he still couldn't escape. This is reminiscent of him appearing within that mirror which was brought up earlier, so it seems he was indeed powerful enough from within the Eye of Harmony to not necessarily control, but influence objects within the TARDIS. As for the Master passing through the Eye of Harmony and into the time vortex, I recall that he was rescued shortly before he was destroyed within the vortex. I suppose that after he was put back in the Eye of Harmony, the Master did everything he could to not pass back into the time vortex, as he was probably unsure if he would get saved again, or risk getting destroyed within the time vortex and never come back. I presume the Master was only able to escape in Forgotten as Edward Grainger was 99 years old at the start of that story, so the Master was able to influence, not the TARDIS, but Edward's dreams as he was mentally weak enough to be unable to withstand the Master's influence, but physically strong enough to lean against a stone staff for support, which accidentally releases the Master.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Aug 3, 2016 14:14:36 GMT
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Oct 4, 2016 14:54:12 GMT
I listened to Museum Peace a few days ago and the 8th Doctor is described as having a frock coat and long hair, obviously that was the only costume he had back in 2006, but tonally the story still feels like it's hinting at, if not set in the Time War, maybe a placing at some point in the last series of the BF EDA's would be better...
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Post by Tim Bradley on Oct 5, 2016 7:10:13 GMT
I listened to Museum Peace a few days ago and the 8th Doctor is described as having a frock coat and long hair, obviously that was the only costume he had back in 2006, but tonally the story still feels like it's hinting at, if not set in the Time War, maybe a placing at some point in the last series of the BF EDA's would be better... Thanks for your suggestion, aztec!
I've now placed 'Museum Piece' (ST) between 'Relative Dimensions' (Audio) and 'The Four Doctors' (Audio) during the last season of BF EDAs for now.
Tim.
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Post by omega on Oct 5, 2016 7:36:25 GMT
I listened to Museum Peace a few days ago and the 8th Doctor is described as having a frock coat and long hair, obviously that was the only costume he had back in 2006, but tonally the story still feels like it's hinting at, if not set in the Time War, maybe a placing at some point in the last series of the BF EDA's would be better... At that point it was a popular theory that the Eighth Doctor fought in and regenerated into the Ninth Doctor due to his involvement in the Time War. Of course it was the reason he regenerated but not into the man we know as the Ninth Doctor. The circumstances behind the Eighth Doctor's regeneration were totally unknown until Night of the Doctor in 2013, with the only solid regeneration story before then forced to not be a regeneration story (ironically the cause for the would-be regeneration would end up being how the Ninth Doctor regenerated into the Tenth Doctor).
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Nov 6, 2016 7:25:30 GMT
I listened to Museum Peace a few days ago and the 8th Doctor is described as having a frock coat and long hair, obviously that was the only costume he had back in 2006, but tonally the story still feels like it's hinting at, if not set in the Time War, maybe a placing at some point in the last series of the BF EDA's would be better... He could have just not cut his hair in a while and thrown on an old frock coat. Alternatively, is there anything that suggests it isn't a young War Doctor instead? I know I've heard that theory floated around before.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 7:30:43 GMT
I listened to Museum Peace a few days ago and the 8th Doctor is described as having a frock coat and long hair, obviously that was the only costume he had back in 2006, but tonally the story still feels like it's hinting at, if not set in the Time War, maybe a placing at some point in the last series of the BF EDA's would be better... After Dark Eyes, I took it to be a coda for the Eighth Doctor set just after the events of To the Death and immediately before the first boxset. It leaves him having made a decision because of the intervention of a single Dalek. Once upon a time, it would have made an excellent epilogue to his adventures and seen him march headlong into an unseen time war, but nowadays... Given his later choice to run away from the War in The Night of the Doctor and abdicate responsibility to another incarnation, it fits that he would despair and choose to head off into oblivion where we and Straxus would later find him.
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Post by liam on Feb 1, 2017 15:59:01 GMT
I was just wondering if The Eighth Doctor’s cameo in ‘The Day of the Doctor’ (TV) occurs towards the end of his life as you have it placed? The only reason I doubt it is that he has the classic long hair and after Dark Eyes his hair is short at least until the Titan comic stories with Josie Day.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 1, 2017 18:30:11 GMT
I listened to Museum Peace a few days ago and the 8th Doctor is described as having a frock coat and long hair, obviously that was the only costume he had back in 2006, but tonally the story still feels like it's hinting at, if not set in the Time War, maybe a placing at some point in the last series of the BF EDA's would be better... After Dark Eyes, I took it to be a coda for the Eighth Doctor set just after the events of To the Death and immediately before the first boxset. It leaves him having made a decision because of the intervention of a single Dalek. Once upon a time, it would have made an excellent epilogue to his adventures and seen him march headlong into an unseen time war, but nowadays... Given his later choice to run away from the War in The Night of the Doctor and abdicate responsibility to another incarnation, it fits that he would despair and choose to head off into oblivion where we and Straxus would later find him. It could fit there but I think Museum Peace is too explicit about him facing a straight choice. The way I see it is he was struggling on whether or not to involve himself in the Time War, which could wipe out the Daleks but could cost him everything. Thus he seeks out a man who did fight a war against the Daleks and did lose everything (Kalendorf). His decision in light of the events of Museum Peace could be that there were innocents who needed protecting from the consequences of war, and that was what he needed to do, leading into Night of the Doctor where he is helping 'where he can' but not fighting. Just a theory.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Feb 2, 2017 7:55:01 GMT
I was just wondering if The Eighth Doctor’s cameo in ‘The Day of the Doctor’ (TV) occurs towards the end of his life as you have it placed? The only reason I doubt it is that he has the classic long hair and after Dark Eyes his hair is short at least until the Titan comic stories with Josie Day. Hi liam
Thank you for raising this point.
I placed 'The Day of the Doctor' cameo for Eight towards the end of his life because I was going by what eyespider was saying about the placement - eyespider.org.uk/drwho/pm/list.html
If you noticed, I put 'Day of the Doctor' and the older Eight's appearance in 'Mary's Story' from 'The Company of Friends' close together. I assume that the older Eighth Doctor has longer hair in that before he cut it short again by the time we come to 'Night of the Doctor'.
I also gathered that Eight's appearance in 'The Forgotten' comic has him have longer hair. The placement of 'The Forgotten' between 'Rulers of the Universe' from 'River Song' and 'The Sontaran Ordeal' contradicts that, unless during the early days of the Time War, the Doctor has frantic hair lengths due to the stress of being involved in the war.
If you have a better suggestion in terms of where these stories should be placed, then I'm happily welcome to hear it.
Many thanks.
Tim.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 8:14:11 GMT
I was just wondering if The Eighth Doctor’s cameo in ‘The Day of the Doctor’ (TV) occurs towards the end of his life as you have it placed? The only reason I doubt it is that he has the classic long hair and after Dark Eyes his hair is short at least until the Titan comic stories with Josie Day. Hi liam
Thank you for raising this point.
I placed 'The Day of the Doctor' cameo for Eight towards the end of his life because I was going by what eyespider was saying about the placement - eyespider.org.uk/drwho/pm/list.html
If you noticed, I put 'Day of the Doctor' and the older Eight's appearance in 'Mary's Story' from 'The Company of Friends' close together. I assume that the older Eighth Doctor has longer hair in that before he cut it short again by the time we come to 'Night of the Doctor'.
I also gathered that Eight's appearance in 'The Forgotten' comic has him have longer hair. The placement of 'The Forgotten' between 'Rulers of the Universe' from 'River Song' and 'The Sontaran Ordeal' contradicts that, unless during the early days of the Time War, the Doctor has frantic hair lengths due to the stress of being involved in the war.
If you have a better suggestion in terms of where these stories should be placed, then I'm happily welcome to hear it.
Many thanks.
Tim.
I've got a nice, easy out for that. He was imprisoned for a fair while in that cell during The Forgotten. I doubt he'd have had access to the facilities required to cut his hair, so maybe it grew out during his time there and he subsequently shortened it again once he got back to the TARDIS?
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 21, 2017 12:25:47 GMT
I dont know why, but something is bugging me about the placement of the DWM stories in 8's timeline. I havent listened to TGWNW or the Lucie Miller stuff, but for some reason my mind wants to place the DWM stuff between them, well more between Quantum Heresy and Blood of the Daleks but you get what i mean
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 12:44:39 GMT
I dont know why, but something is bugging me about the placement of the DWM stories in 8's timeline. I havent listened to TGWNW or the Lucie Miller stuff, but for some reason my mind wants to place the DWM stuff between them, well more between Quantum Heresy and Blood of the Daleks but you get what i mean A long while ago, I stuck everything from Stockbridge to Oblivion right at the front of his life as part of an informal reaffirmation trilogy comprised of Model Train Set, The Dying Days and Endgame where he distinguishes his new persona from what's come before following his amnesia in San Francisco. Where Nobody Knows Your Name has him in a very sombre mood which fits perfectly with the ending of The Girl Who Never Was where he's forced to accept that Charley has left him for good. The rest of his solo adventures and his reunion with Destrii and Jodafra were placed in that gap, but there's nothing to really stop anyone from putting them in the gap between Blood of the Daleks and The Gallifrey Chronicles/The Infinity Doctors or even later on post- Death in Blackpool. The only limiting factors are that the Master refers to the Doctor's regeneration being as being several "months" rather than years and that his green coat has been superseded by a rather jolly blue number. His decision to return to Gallifrey in The Final Chapter and meet with the High Evolutionaries, a virtual council that prominently including Rassilon as a member, must put it at some point before the Big Finish stories as there is mistrust, but not outright hostility there. That's the only irreconcilable continuity error I can find as Rassilon is villainous and trapped in the Divergent Universe relative to the present day while his future self is simply devious and acting as a shadow force within the Matrix.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 21, 2017 17:11:01 GMT
I dont know why, but something is bugging me about the placement of the DWM stories in 8's timeline. I havent listened to TGWNW or the Lucie Miller stuff, but for some reason my mind wants to place the DWM stuff between them, well more between Quantum Heresy and Blood of the Daleks but you get what i mean A long while ago, I stuck everything from Stockbridge to Oblivion right at the front of his life as part of an informal reaffirmation trilogy comprised of Model Train Set, The Dying Days and Endgame where he distinguishes his new persona from what's come before following his amnesia in San Francisco. Where Nobody Knows Your Name has him in a very sombre mood which fits perfectly with the ending of The Girl Who Never Was where he's forced to accept that Charley has left him for good. The rest of his solo adventures and his reunion with Destrii and Jodafra were placed in that gap, but there's nothing to really stop anyone from putting them in the gap between Blood of the Daleks and The Gallifrey Chronicles/The Infinity Doctors or even later on post- Death in Blackpool. The only limiting factors are that the Master refers to the Doctor's regeneration being as being several "months" rather than years and that his green coat has been superseded by a rather jolly blue number. His decision to return to Gallifrey in The Final Chapter and meet with the High Evolutionaries, a virtual council that prominently including Rassilon as a member, must put it at some point before the Big Finish stories as there is mistrust, but not outright hostility there. That's the only irreconcilable continuity error I can find as Rassilon is villainous and trapped in the Divergent Universe relative to the present day while his future self is simply devious and acting as a shadow force within the Matrix. hmmmm. That makes it difficult then. not sure If a couple of my short Trip ideas will work with that then
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Post by sailorhaumea on Feb 21, 2017 17:31:33 GMT
I dont know why, but something is bugging me about the placement of the DWM stories in 8's timeline. I havent listened to TGWNW or the Lucie Miller stuff, but for some reason my mind wants to place the DWM stuff between them, well more between Quantum Heresy and Blood of the Daleks but you get what i mean A long while ago, I stuck everything from Stockbridge to Oblivion right at the front of his life as part of an informal reaffirmation trilogy comprised of Model Train Set, The Dying Days and Endgame where he distinguishes his new persona from what's come before following his amnesia in San Francisco. Where Nobody Knows Your Name has him in a very sombre mood which fits perfectly with the ending of The Girl Who Never Was where he's forced to accept that Charley has left him for good. The rest of his solo adventures and his reunion with Destrii and Jodafra were placed in that gap, but there's nothing to really stop anyone from putting them in the gap between Blood of the Daleks and The Gallifrey Chronicles/The Infinity Doctors or even later on post- Death in Blackpool. The only limiting factors are that the Master refers to the Doctor's regeneration being as being several "months" rather than years and that his green coat has been superseded by a rather jolly blue number. His decision to return to Gallifrey in The Final Chapter and meet with the High Evolutionaries, a virtual council that prominently including Rassilon as a member, must put it at some point before the Big Finish stories as there is mistrust, but not outright hostility there. That's the only irreconcilable continuity error I can find as Rassilon is villainous and trapped in the Divergent Universe relative to the present day while his future self is simply devious and acting as a shadow force within the Matrix. I actually like the idea that The Infinity Doctors isn't after The Gallifrey Chronicles. Nor is it before the First Doctor leaves Gallifrey. Instead, it's still Eight...but had The Ancestor Cell not happened. It's shortly before the War. The Master/Magistrate is on the way up the ladder - it won't be long before he becomes Lord President of Gallifrey. Remember that when he's Lord President in The Taking of Planet 5, he recalls Sontar's visit to the Capitol. So TID is certainly before the War begins.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 1:03:38 GMT
A long while ago, I stuck everything from Stockbridge to Oblivion right at the front of his life as part of an informal reaffirmation trilogy comprised of Model Train Set, The Dying Days and Endgame where he distinguishes his new persona from what's come before following his amnesia in San Francisco. Where Nobody Knows Your Name has him in a very sombre mood which fits perfectly with the ending of The Girl Who Never Was where he's forced to accept that Charley has left him for good. The rest of his solo adventures and his reunion with Destrii and Jodafra were placed in that gap, but there's nothing to really stop anyone from putting them in the gap between Blood of the Daleks and The Gallifrey Chronicles/The Infinity Doctors or even later on post- Death in Blackpool. The only limiting factors are that the Master refers to the Doctor's regeneration being as being several "months" rather than years and that his green coat has been superseded by a rather jolly blue number. His decision to return to Gallifrey in The Final Chapter and meet with the High Evolutionaries, a virtual council that prominently including Rassilon as a member, must put it at some point before the Big Finish stories as there is mistrust, but not outright hostility there. That's the only irreconcilable continuity error I can find as Rassilon is villainous and trapped in the Divergent Universe relative to the present day while his future self is simply devious and acting as a shadow force within the Matrix. hmmmm. That makes it difficult then. not sure If a couple of my short Trip ideas will work with that then It may require a little bit of jiggery-pokery depending on the subject matter. On the other hand, who is to say that the Rassilon sitting amongst the High Evolutionaries since The Tides of Time is the genuine article? Maybe he's the computerised version of a golem? The official unofficial face to which business is conducted. I got around the two very different descriptions of Merlin for The Neutron Knights and Battlefield by saying that the incarnation with the High Evolutionaries had started to peek into that other continuum now that everything was more or less sorted in his own timeline and got ousted from the council for it when he decided to interfere a little too greatly with Arthur and his knights. Somewhere over the course of his adventures there he regenerated, hence the later appearance of Muldwych and the fact that all seem to recognise the Seventh Doctor as the same man despite his appearance.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 22, 2017 11:49:02 GMT
The only limiting factors are that the Master refers to the Doctor's regeneration being as being several "months" rather than years and that his green coat has been superseded by a rather jolly blue number. His decision to return to Gallifrey in The Final Chapter and meet with the High Evolutionaries, a virtual council that prominently including Rassilon as a member, must put it at some point before the Big Finish stories as there is mistrust, but not outright hostility there. That's the only irreconcilable continuity error I can find as Rassilon is villainous and trapped in the Divergent Universe relative to the present day while his future self is simply devious and acting as a shadow force within the Matrix. Should point out the Gallifrey in The Final Chapter is explicitly not contemporous to the eighth Doctor. It's at a future point where some doubt the Doctor's existence (they end up in the future due to some dodgy TARDIS flying by a companion). Or at least that's my understanding.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 13:04:09 GMT
The only limiting factors are that the Master refers to the Doctor's regeneration being as being several "months" rather than years and that his green coat has been superseded by a rather jolly blue number. His decision to return to Gallifrey in The Final Chapter and meet with the High Evolutionaries, a virtual council that prominently including Rassilon as a member, must put it at some point before the Big Finish stories as there is mistrust, but not outright hostility there. That's the only irreconcilable continuity error I can find as Rassilon is villainous and trapped in the Divergent Universe relative to the present day while his future self is simply devious and acting as a shadow force within the Matrix. Should point out the Gallifrey in The Final Chapter is explicitly not contemporous to the eighth Doctor. It's at a future point where some doubt the Doctor's existence (they end up in the future due to some dodgy TARDIS flying by a companion). Or at least that's my understanding. Yep, the Matrix Lords' deal with the Threshold was to prevent the Daleks from invading those other realities and Rassilon even goes so far as to dispatch Shayde once again to assist the Doctor in his endeavours. There's a discontinuity between his behaviour during the Divergent Universe arc and later on in that Matrix projection within future Gallifrey, although I've looked it up and there are a few different interpretations as to the nature of his existence within the tomb. Some say that he's dead and that the face that judges Borusa in The Five Doctors is a sophisticated artificial intelligence, others say that he's ascended to another plane of existence beyond which he can intervene if he so chooses and another group further still say that his mind well outlasted his body, now thriving within the Matrix supercomputer. It's a tough bugbear to overcome, but I think there are ways around it with a little clever thinking. Perhaps Rassilon's influence stretched so far that he meandered into three aspects -- his id, ego and superego -- or the figure seen in Zagreus was the manifest subconscious of the man we'd see in The Tides of Time?
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 22, 2017 13:39:54 GMT
Hmm some good things to think about there. I'll consider my options and see if anything in my idea's need to change
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