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Post by sailorhaumea on Apr 9, 2017 4:10:50 GMT
I've recently switched around parts of my timeline, placing the DWM comics after the Radio Times ones, followed by Mary Shelley, Charley, solo travels some more, then Vampire Science. The Infinity Doctors I've placed as post-TGC Eight having travelled back to shortly before the War starts.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,849
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Post by aztec on Apr 10, 2017 19:44:25 GMT
I've recently switched around parts of my timeline, placing the DWM comics after the Radio Times ones, followed by Mary Shelley, Charley, solo travels some more, then Vampire Science. The Infinity Doctors I've placed as post-TGC Eight having travelled back to shortly before the War starts. I've not read the comics, but Mary/Charley just doesn't work between Eight Doctors and Vampire Science i.m.o, for one thing both of them traveled with the Doctor for 'years'-only 3 years pass for the 8th Doctor between Eight Doc's and Vampire Science (assuming he is counting correctly) and the longest he's parted from Sam seems to be when he drops her off at a Greenpeace rally for a few hours and travels for a year, the events of his travels with Charley and C'Rizz seem far too dramatic to take place this early in 8's life i.m.o-in Vampire Science he's still very much like his TV Movie personality all scatterbrained upbeat wonder etc.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Apr 20, 2018 15:01:34 GMT
Personally I would put the Timeline something like this:
1. The TV Movie 2. The Eight Doctors + Early travels with Sam 3. RT Comics (Stacy and Ssard) 4. Benny’s Story/subsequent adventures with Benny 5. Travels with Sam following Vampire Science 6. Sam and Fitz 7. Fitz and Compassion THE ANCESTOR CELL (Gallifrey is destroyed) 8. Earth arc 9. Fitz and Anji THE ADVENTURESS OF HENRIETTA STREET (Revelation that Gallifrey was wiped from History + other Time Lords survived) 10. Fitz and Trix THE GALLIFREY CHRONICLES (The Doctor discovers he has the matrix in his head or something and realises he can use it to restore Gallifrey) GALLIFREY IS RESTORED (After defeating the Vore and Fitz/Trix leave, the Doctor manages to restore Gallifrey to History however the events of the EDAs have been undone and only the Doctor can remember them. The Doctor is effectively back at the TV movie with the memories of the EDAs + Gallifrey is restored and Pythia’s Curse didn’t happen because New Who) 11. DWM Eight Comics (Izzy, Fey, Kroton, Destrii) 12. Samson and Gemma (plus several years with Mary while Samson and Gemma are left in Vienna) 13. Eighth Doctor Main Range (Storm Warning to The Girl Who Never Was, Charley and C’rizz) 15. The Eighth Doctor Adventures Series 1-4 (Lucie and Tamsin) 16. Dark Eyes 1-4 (Molly and Liv) 17. Doom Coalition 1-4 (Liv and Helen) 18. Ravenous 1-4 (Liv and Helen) 19. Titan Comics (Josie Day, Doctor has pre-Dark Eyes personality, dressed in clean NOTD costume and had just come out of an intense period of his life) 20. Sheena (Doctor’s costume and personality similar to the Titan one, implication that Sheena actually died in the escape prior to boarding the refugee ship) 21. The Time War (Bliss) 22. Night of the Doctor
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Post by xlozdob on Apr 21, 2018 1:08:25 GMT
Personally I would put the Timeline something like this: 1. The TV Movie 2. The Eight Doctors + Early travels with Sam 3. RT Comics (Stacy and Ssard) 4. Benny’s Story/subsequent adventures with Benny 5. Travels with Sam following Vampire Science 6. Sam and Fitz 7. Fitz and Compassion THE ANCESTOR CELL (Gallifrey is destroyed) 8. Earth arc 9. Fitz and Anji THE ADVENTURESS OF HENRIETTA STREET (Revelation that Gallifrey was wiped from History + other Time Lords survived) 10. Fitz and Trix THE GALLIFREY CHRONICLES (The Doctor discovers he has the matrix in his head or something and realises he can use it to restore Gallifrey) GALLIFREY IS RESTORED (After defeating the Vore and Fitz/Trix leave, the Doctor manages to restore Gallifrey to History however the events of the EDAs have been undone and only the Doctor can remember them. The Doctor is effectively back at the TV movie with the memories of the EDAs + Gallifrey is restored and Pythia’s Curse didn’t happen because New Who) 11. DWM Eight Comics (Izzy, Fey, Kroton, Destrii) 12. Samson and Gemma (plus several years with Mary while Samson and Gemma are left in Vienna) 13. Eighth Doctor Main Range (Storm Warning to The Girl Who Never Was, Charley and C’rizz) 15. The Eighth Doctor Adventures Series 1-4 (Lucie and Tamsin) 16. Dark Eyes 1-4 (Molly and Liv) 17. Doom Coalition 1-4 (Liv and Helen) 18. Ravenous 1-4 (Liv and Helen) 19. Titan Comics (Josie Day, Doctor has pre-Dark Eyes personality, dressed in clean NOTD costume and had just come out of an intense period of his life) 20. Sheena (Doctor’s costume and personality similar to the Titan one, implication that Sheena actually died in the escape prior to boarding the refugee ship) 21. The Time War (Bliss) 22. Night of the Doctor Where would you place Shada? Just before Charley and after Samson and Gemma? ETA: Your timeline would also place the stories in The Company of Friends in the correct order, which is nice.
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Post by Digi on Apr 21, 2018 1:18:36 GMT
I don't pay any mind to comics or novels, but to me Shada slots in between Mary Shelley and Charley.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Apr 21, 2018 8:42:44 GMT
Personally I would put the Timeline something like this: 1. The TV Movie 2. The Eight Doctors + Early travels with Sam 3. RT Comics (Stacy and Ssard) 4. Benny’s Story/subsequent adventures with Benny 5. Travels with Sam following Vampire Science 6. Sam and Fitz 7. Fitz and Compassion THE ANCESTOR CELL (Gallifrey is destroyed) 8. Earth arc 9. Fitz and Anji THE ADVENTURESS OF HENRIETTA STREET (Revelation that Gallifrey was wiped from History + other Time Lords survived) 10. Fitz and Trix THE GALLIFREY CHRONICLES (The Doctor discovers he has the matrix in his head or something and realises he can use it to restore Gallifrey) GALLIFREY IS RESTORED (After defeating the Vore and Fitz/Trix leave, the Doctor manages to restore Gallifrey to History however the events of the EDAs have been undone and only the Doctor can remember them. The Doctor is effectively back at the TV movie with the memories of the EDAs + Gallifrey is restored and Pythia’s Curse didn’t happen because New Who) 11. DWM Eight Comics (Izzy, Fey, Kroton, Destrii) 12. Samson and Gemma (plus several years with Mary while Samson and Gemma are left in Vienna) 13. Eighth Doctor Main Range (Storm Warning to The Girl Who Never Was, Charley and C’rizz) 15. The Eighth Doctor Adventures Series 1-4 (Lucie and Tamsin) 16. Dark Eyes 1-4 (Molly and Liv) 17. Doom Coalition 1-4 (Liv and Helen) 18. Ravenous 1-4 (Liv and Helen) 19. Titan Comics (Josie Day, Doctor has pre-Dark Eyes personality, dressed in clean NOTD costume and had just come out of an intense period of his life) 20. Sheena (Doctor’s costume and personality similar to the Titan one, implication that Sheena actually died in the escape prior to boarding the refugee ship) 21. The Time War (Bliss) 22. Night of the Doctor Where would you place Shada? Just before Charley and after Samson and Gemma? ETA: Your timeline would also place the stories in The Company of Friends in the correct order, which is nice. Yeah, I think that’s where Shada is usually put anyway. I haven’t actually heard Eight’s Shada but as far as I know, it’s his “first meeting” with Romana II and he remembers his travels with Mary so it has to come between Army of Death and Neverland.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Apr 21, 2018 11:46:01 GMT
Here’s a better version of the timeline I posted before: 1. The TV Movie - The Eight Doctors 2. Short Trips with Sam JonesTHE DOCTOR DROPS SAM OFF AT THE GREENPEACE RALLY3. Short Trips involving Eight still getting used to his new body 4. The Dying Days 5. Dreadnought - Coda STACY AND SSARD LEAVE TO GET MARRIED6. Benny’s StorySUBSEQUENT ADVENTURES WITH BENNY UNTIL HE EVENTUALLY TAKES HER HOME7. Vampire Science - The Face-Eater (Solo Travels with Sam/on and off) 8. The Taint - Interference (Sam and Fitz) 9. The Blue Angel - The Ancestor Cell (Fitz and Compassion)GALLIFREY IS DESTROYED 10. The Burning - Father Time (Earth Arc, No TARDIS, Amnesia) 11. Escape Velocity - Timeless (Fitz and Anji)THE DOCTOR DISCOVERS IN THE ADVENTURESS OF HENRIETTA STREET THAT GALLIFREY WAS WIPED FROM HISTORY AND A FEW TIME LORDS ARE STILL ALIVE IN THE POST WAR UNIVERSE12. Timeless - The Gallifrey Chronicles (Fitz and Trix) CONJECTURE/THEORY: Following the Events of The Gallifrey Chronicles, the Doctor, Fitz and Trix do go on to defeat the Vore as they said they would. Fitz and Trix then leave the Doctor in order to start a life together and he is left travelling alone. However he knows that with the Matrix stored in his mind, he can bring back Gallifrey. Using this, he resurrects the Time Lords who were uploaded to it, including Romana. Together they devise a way to create a new timeline and restore Gallifrey, ensuring that the War does not happen again. They do this by taking Grandfather Paradox, The Last Pythia, Sam Jones and any other potential catalysts to the War out of time and placed on an airship in the Time Vortex. This put into effect a new timeline where Faction Paradox never existed, the Pythia’s Curse never happened so most Time Lords are Womb-Born and the paradoxes made by Sam Jones’ altered history is undone. Time folds back on itself and in the new Timeline, Romana II is President of Gallifrey and the Doctor remembers his old companions but official history states that he’d only travelled with Stacy, Ssard and Bernice Summerfield for a few months in this incarnation. 13. Endgame -Oblivion (Travels with Izzy + Fey and Kroton) 14. Where Nobody Knows Your Name - The Land of Happy Endings (Post Izzy solo travels) 15. Bad Blood - The Flood and Beyond (Travels with Destrii) 16. Samson and Gemma Join - Samson and Gemma left in Vienna 17. Mary’s Story - Army of Death 18. Samson and Gemma picked up from Vienna - Samson and Gemma kidnapped by Davros 19. Shada 20. Storm Warning - Zagreus (Travels with Charley) 21. Scherzo - The Next Life (Divergent Universe, Charley and C’rizz) 22. Terror Firma - The Girl Who Never Was (Travels with Charley and C’rizz in Main universe) 23. Blood of the Daleks - Death in Blackpool (Travels with Lucie) 24. Situation Vacant - The Resurrection Of Mars (Travels with Tamsin) 25. Relative Dimensions - To the Death (Solo/ Susan, Alex, Lucie and Tamsin) 26. The Great War - X and the Daleks (First Adventures with Molly) 27. The White Room - Time’s Horizon (New Adventures with Molly) 28. Time’s Horizon - Rule of the Eminence (Travels with Liv and Molly) 29. Rule of the Eminence - The Eleven (Solo Travels with Liv) 30. The Red Lady - ? ( Travels with Liv and Helen) 31. The Pictures of Josephine Day - ? (Travels with Josie Day) 32. ? - The Starship Of Theseus (Travels with Sheena) 33. One Life - ?? (Travels with Bliss) 34. Night of the Doctor
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Post by scumdog69 on Dec 16, 2018 16:33:30 GMT
Hi, I am new here, but this continuity is WHY I found my way here, so thanks to everyone who has commented or contributed so far. I absolutely LOVE McGann as the Eighth Doctor, and his audios are really what made me such a huge fan of Big Finish. I have tried to absorb as much of the 8th’s media as possible, but have been really daunted by the sheer amount of it, and the “all over the place” order of it all. That said, I also prefer to place all the Big Finish audios after the print media stuff, mainly because it just seems to play better together. Also, in Night of the Doctor, he mentions the Big Finish companions together, but none of the others that tend to get placed between them on most chronologies, so that does it for me. Once again, thanks so much!
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Post by Digi on Jul 3, 2019 23:46:52 GMT
Some thoughts....
Eight experiences the start of the Time War in Starship of Theseus, and picks up Bliss during that first 8DTW set (and presumably travels with her through the end of 8DTW4). So the current placement of his standalone Time War stories (Rulers of the Universe, Sontaran Ordeal, Day of the Vashta Nerada, A Heart on Both Sides) don't really work as being placed before 8DTW1. I'd move them further along to some time after the 8DTW sets, once Bliss is gone, because in those standalones, he's travelling alone.
Likewise in his two appearances in War Master: Rage of the Time Lords (The Missing Link, Darkness and Light), he is travelling alone and 'has opposed this war since the start.' I would stick those two stories along with the rest of the standalones at some point after the 8DTW series.
The only one I'm really having trouble reconciling is All Hands on Deck, which has to be after the declaration of war (GTW: Celestial Intervention), and after the Doctor experiences the start of the war (8DTW: Starship of Theseus), but he appears to be alone, which doesn't really jibe with the rest of the 8DTW series.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 4, 2019 9:44:29 GMT
Well we don’t know for sure that Starship of Theseus is when he experiences the start of the war, it’s just one potential explanation for the events of that story.
Also something to note is that in The Missing Link / Darkness and Light, the Doctor mentions how he has been running from the war and hiding out in places not affected by the War, but it always finds him in the end. This suggests that it’s before he begins to get more actively involved in the war.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 4, 2019 10:02:58 GMT
Some thoughts.... Eight experiences the start of the Time War in Starship of Theseus, and picks up Bliss during that first 8DTW set (and presumably travels with her through the end of 8DTW4). So the current placement of his standalone Time War stories (Rulers of the Universe, Sontaran Ordeal, Day of the Vashta Nerada, A Heart on Both Sides) don't really work as being placed before 8DTW1. I'd move them further along to some time after the 8DTW sets, once Bliss is gone, because in those standalones, he's travelling alone. Likewise in his two appearances in War Master: Rage of the Time Lords (The Missing Link, Darkness and Light), he is travelling alone and 'has opposed this war since the start.' I would stick those two stories along with the rest of the standalones at some point after the 8DTW series. The only one I'm really having trouble reconciling is All Hands on Deck, which has to be after the declaration of war (GTW: Celestial Intervention), and after the Doctor experiences the start of the war (8DTW: Starship of Theseus), but he appears to be alone, which doesn't really jibe with the rest of the 8DTW series. Well the difficulty with characterising Starship of Theseus as the beginning of the War is that later in the set the Doctor refers to his decision not to join up as if the War’s been going a while. My current interpretation of Starship is that in the beginning we get a glimpse of the Doctor’s life without a Time War, and gradually see that timeline overriden by the War timeline. So- {Spoiler} Timeline 1: -The Doctor meets Shona and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures the Doctor decides to take her on a pleasure cruise on the starship Theseus
Timeline 2/3: -The Doctor meets Emma/Louise and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures, the Doctor and Emma/Louise arrive at a spaceport to find it under attack from the Daleks, helping refugees escape on the starship Theseus
Timeline 4: -The Doctor learns of the outbreak of the Time War but after much consideration, including a visit to Kalendorf [Museum Peace] decides not to answer his people’s summons for his help in the conflict -The Doctor tries to avoid the war zones, becoming mixed up in the Master’s machinations [Rage of the Time Lords] amongst other detours, possibly including his visit to Susan [All Hands on Deck], that prevent him ever coming into contact with Shona/Emma/Louise (if she even exists), and eventually travelling to a spaceport -The spaceport comes under attack from the Daleks and the Doctor helps refugees escape aboard the starship Theseus
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 4, 2019 11:35:37 GMT
Some thoughts.... Eight experiences the start of the Time War in Starship of Theseus, and picks up Bliss during that first 8DTW set (and presumably travels with her through the end of 8DTW4). So the current placement of his standalone Time War stories (Rulers of the Universe, Sontaran Ordeal, Day of the Vashta Nerada, A Heart on Both Sides) don't really work as being placed before 8DTW1. I'd move them further along to some time after the 8DTW sets, once Bliss is gone, because in those standalones, he's travelling alone. Likewise in his two appearances in War Master: Rage of the Time Lords (The Missing Link, Darkness and Light), he is travelling alone and 'has opposed this war since the start.' I would stick those two stories along with the rest of the standalones at some point after the 8DTW series. The only one I'm really having trouble reconciling is All Hands on Deck, which has to be after the declaration of war (GTW: Celestial Intervention), and after the Doctor experiences the start of the war (8DTW: Starship of Theseus), but he appears to be alone, which doesn't really jibe with the rest of the 8DTW series. Well the difficulty with characterising Starship of Theseus as the beginning of the War is that later in the set the Doctor refers to his decision not to join up as if the War’s been going a while. My current interpretation of Starship is that in the beginning we get a glimpse of the Doctor’s life without a Time War, and gradually see that timeline overriden by the War timeline. So- {Spoiler} Timeline 1: -The Doctor meets Shona and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures the Doctor decides to take her on a pleasure cruise on the starship Theseus
Timeline 2/3: -The Doctor meets Emma/Louise and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures, the Doctor and Emma/Louise arrive at a spaceport to find it under attack from the Daleks, helping refugees escape on the starship Theseus
Timeline 4: -The Doctor learns of the outbreak of the Time War but after much consideration, including a visit to Kalendorf [Museum Peace] decides not to answer his people’s summons for his help in the conflict -The Doctor tries to avoid the war zones, becoming mixed up in the Master’s machinations [Rage of the Time Lords] amongst other detours, possibly including his visit to Susan [All Hands on Deck], that prevent him ever coming into contact with Shona/Emma/Louise (if she even exists), and eventually travelling to a spaceport -The spaceport comes under attack from the Daleks and the Doctor helps refugees escape aboard the starship Theseus {Spoiler} Rupa also mentions that the Doctor referred to losing someone in the incident that they were escaping in the Theseus from, so I’ve always taken that to mean Sheena.
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Post by Digi on Jul 4, 2019 11:43:02 GMT
Some thoughts.... Eight experiences the start of the Time War in Starship of Theseus, and picks up Bliss during that first 8DTW set (and presumably travels with her through the end of 8DTW4). So the current placement of his standalone Time War stories (Rulers of the Universe, Sontaran Ordeal, Day of the Vashta Nerada, A Heart on Both Sides) don't really work as being placed before 8DTW1. I'd move them further along to some time after the 8DTW sets, once Bliss is gone, because in those standalones, he's travelling alone. Likewise in his two appearances in War Master: Rage of the Time Lords (The Missing Link, Darkness and Light), he is travelling alone and 'has opposed this war since the start.' I would stick those two stories along with the rest of the standalones at some point after the 8DTW series. The only one I'm really having trouble reconciling is All Hands on Deck, which has to be after the declaration of war (GTW: Celestial Intervention), and after the Doctor experiences the start of the war (8DTW: Starship of Theseus), but he appears to be alone, which doesn't really jibe with the rest of the 8DTW series. Well the difficulty with characterising Starship of Theseus as the beginning of the War is that later in the set the Doctor refers to his decision not to join up as if the War’s been going a while. My current interpretation of Starship is that in the beginning we get a glimpse of the Doctor’s life without a Time War, and gradually see that timeline overriden by the War timeline. So- {Spoiler} Timeline 1: -The Doctor meets Shona and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures the Doctor decides to take her on a pleasure cruise on the starship Theseus
Timeline 2/3: -The Doctor meets Emma/Louise and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures, the Doctor and Emma/Louise arrive at a spaceport to find it under attack from the Daleks, helping refugees escape on the starship Theseus
Timeline 4: -The Doctor learns of the outbreak of the Time War but after much consideration, including a visit to Kalendorf [Museum Peace] decides not to answer his people’s summons for his help in the conflict -The Doctor tries to avoid the war zones, becoming mixed up in the Master’s machinations [Rage of the Time Lords] amongst other detours, possibly including his visit to Susan [All Hands on Deck], that prevent him ever coming into contact with Shona/Emma/Louise (if she even exists), and eventually travelling to a spaceport -The spaceport comes under attack from the Daleks and the Doctor helps refugees escape aboard the starship Theseus Right, I don’t disagree at all, but SoT is for us the listener, the point at which the war starts for the Doctor. You’re absolutely right in that it’s difficult because it kind of retroactively rewrites recent events for Eight, but from a viewer/listener POV, there’s really no good way of treating it other than the start of the war for him short of pausing partway through SoT to listen to several other stories, and then resuming SoT and the 8DTW series. Hence, I prefer to move the solo 8/War stories to post-8DTW. It makes for easier listening, and in my head at least, it fits better into a concept of an Eight who grows weary of losing friends to the war and so is travelling alone toward the end of his life and as he approaches Night of the Doctor. (Museum Piece remains problematic though.)
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Post by sherlock on Jul 4, 2019 11:48:02 GMT
Well the difficulty with characterising Starship of Theseus as the beginning of the War is that later in the set the Doctor refers to his decision not to join up as if the War’s been going a while. My current interpretation of Starship is that in the beginning we get a glimpse of the Doctor’s life without a Time War, and gradually see that timeline overriden by the War timeline. So- {Spoiler} Timeline 1: -The Doctor meets Shona and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures the Doctor decides to take her on a pleasure cruise on the starship Theseus
Timeline 2/3: -The Doctor meets Emma/Louise and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures, the Doctor and Emma/Louise arrive at a spaceport to find it under attack from the Daleks, helping refugees escape on the starship Theseus
Timeline 4: -The Doctor learns of the outbreak of the Time War but after much consideration, including a visit to Kalendorf [Museum Peace] decides not to answer his people’s summons for his help in the conflict -The Doctor tries to avoid the war zones, becoming mixed up in the Master’s machinations [Rage of the Time Lords] amongst other detours, possibly including his visit to Susan [All Hands on Deck], that prevent him ever coming into contact with Shona/Emma/Louise (if she even exists), and eventually travelling to a spaceport -The spaceport comes under attack from the Daleks and the Doctor helps refugees escape aboard the starship Theseus {Spoiler} Rupa also mentions that the Doctor referred to losing someone in the incident that they were escaping in the Theseus from, so I’ve always taken that to mean Sheena. Oh yeah, forgot about that line. {Spoiler} I guess there’s another timeline where Louise dies in the attack, and as the Doctor never shows any memory of her later on that timeline is in turn replaced by the final one where she might have never existed at all.
Timeline 1: -The Doctor meets Sheena and she joins him in the TARDIS. -After many adventures the Doctor decides to take her on a pleasure cruise on the starship Theseus.
Timeline 2/3: -The Doctor meets Emma/Louise and she joins him in the TARDIS. -After many adventures, the Doctor and Emma/Louise arrive at a spaceport to find it under attack from the Daleks, helping refugees escape on the starship Theseus.
Timeline 4: -The Doctor meets Louise and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures, the Doctor and Louise arrive on a spaceport which is attacked by the Daleks. As they help refugees to flee aboard the starship Theseus, Louise is killed.
Timeline 5: -The Doctor learns of the outbreak of the Time War but after much consideration, including a visit to Kalendorf [Museum Peace] decides not to answer his people’s summons for his help in the conflict. -The Doctor tries to avoid the war zones, becoming mixed up in the Master’s machinations [Rage of the Time Lords] amongst other detours, possibly including his visit to Susan [All Hands on Deck], that prevent him ever coming into contact with Louise (if she even exists), and eventually travelling to a spaceport. -The spaceport comes under attack from the Daleks and the Doctor helps refugees escape aboard the starship Theseus.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 4, 2019 12:03:29 GMT
Well the difficulty with characterising Starship of Theseus as the beginning of the War is that later in the set the Doctor refers to his decision not to join up as if the War’s been going a while. My current interpretation of Starship is that in the beginning we get a glimpse of the Doctor’s life without a Time War, and gradually see that timeline overriden by the War timeline. So- {Spoiler} Timeline 1: -The Doctor meets Shona and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures the Doctor decides to take her on a pleasure cruise on the starship Theseus
Timeline 2/3: -The Doctor meets Emma/Louise and she joins him in the TARDIS -After many adventures, the Doctor and Emma/Louise arrive at a spaceport to find it under attack from the Daleks, helping refugees escape on the starship Theseus
Timeline 4: -The Doctor learns of the outbreak of the Time War but after much consideration, including a visit to Kalendorf [Museum Peace] decides not to answer his people’s summons for his help in the conflict -The Doctor tries to avoid the war zones, becoming mixed up in the Master’s machinations [Rage of the Time Lords] amongst other detours, possibly including his visit to Susan [All Hands on Deck], that prevent him ever coming into contact with Shona/Emma/Louise (if she even exists), and eventually travelling to a spaceport -The spaceport comes under attack from the Daleks and the Doctor helps refugees escape aboard the starship Theseus Right, I don’t disagree at all, but SoT is for us the listener, the point at which the war starts for the Doctor. You’re absolutely right in that it’s difficult because it kind of retroactively rewrites recent events for Eight, but from a viewer/listener POV, there’s really no good way of treating it other than the start of the war for him short of pausing partway through SoT to listen to several other stories, and then resuming SoT and the 8DTW series. Hence, I prefer to move the solo 8/War stories to post-8DTW. It makes for easier listening, and in my head at least, it fits better into a concept of an Eight who grows weary of losing friends to the war and so is travelling alone toward the end of his life and as he approaches Night of the Doctor. (Museum Piece remains problematic though.) Yeah it is tricky for listen-throughs. I think on balance the majority of the solo stuff should go after The Time War Series for simplicity’s sake. All Hands on Deck probably belongs there as well , as the Doctor mentions stuff happening in the War including Time Lord annexations, which is something he discovers is happening during The Time War Series. It really depends how The Time War Series eventually ends, if Eight is just on the verge of going to Karn or if he’s just flying off into the War again.
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 20, 2019 9:39:23 GMT
Lies in Ruins (Eight's episode in The Legacy of Time) is probably best placed as the last thing before The Night of the Doctor at the moment. It shows him having suffered a lot from the effects of the Time War for quite some time, and he suggests it might be time for him to start getting involved.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 20, 2019 11:36:31 GMT
The problem is that there’s no real coordination amongst the Time War Stories. Here he seems to have been through all the horrors and is really fed up with it all, but he also talks about how he’s flat out kept away from the War and been running from it, then decides it’s time to start getting involved while still not fighting, which would suggest that it’s set much earlier, rather than after all the other stories where he’s already “helping where he can”.
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Post by Digi on Jul 20, 2019 16:21:13 GMT
I thought River’s line about it being very soon that he’ll fully commit to the war was very definitive. Short of one of the creatives saying otherwise, I’m very confident this should fall right before NotD.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 20, 2019 17:25:24 GMT
"Lies in Ruins" suggests to me that previously his involvement in the War has been by accident or the acts of others, and this is the point he actively engages in trying to help around the edges as described in "Night of the Doctor". So it's the beginning of the chain of events leading to his death, but how much distance there is between the two I wouldn't care to guess. (And we can't rely on what River knows; she wasn't aware of the twelfth Doctor, for example).
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 29, 2019 16:55:54 GMT
So this is my current headspace on the Time War section of the Eighth Doctor's Timeline. I know people are split on where to put the Solo stories in regards to the ongoing series with Bliss, but for now I’m just placing it based on the evidence presented. As far as I’m concerned at the moment, even if Starship of Theseus is the Eighth Doctor entrance into the War, we’ve still got stories that make more sense prior to it, and by the end of that story the Doctor inhabits a Timeline where he’s always known about the war. Not to mention the fact that State of Bliss heavily indicates that Deepa's meddling with the Quantum anomaly gate and attempt to put the Doctor and Bliss together is what caused the events on the Theseus rather than the Time War beginning.
Titan Comics The Doctor is dressed in his Time War costume, has his dark Eyes sonic screwdriver and Victorian parlour console room. He mentions that he is sick of War in one issue, but there is no direct reference or involvement of the Time War in the Series other than that, suggesting this is early in the War, or perhaps even re it was formally declared. In the last story featuring the Doctor and Josie, the Doctor is dressed more akin to his TV movie costume.
Mary’s Story The Doctor has long hair, and his Victorian parlour interior. His TARDIS was damaged in a “storm in heaven”. He has already met Alex Campbell.
Ghost of Christmas Past The Doctor has long hair, and has his Victorian parlour console room. He’s become weary from the Time War, which he’s been helping around withdraw for the past few months but always fails to save people. He thinks it’s been a few months, but isn’t sure without a companion with him to keep track. By the end he has a renewed sense of hope that Gallifrey can survive the war.
Natural Regression The Doctor gets his hair cut short and is still using his Victorian parlour console room and Dark Eyes Sonic.
The Sontaran Ordeal The Doctor has his Victorian parlour console room and is trying to minimise the damage caused by the War.
Day of the Vashta Nerada The Doctor has his Victorian parlour console room and gets involved with the events on synthesis station by answering a distress call, not realising it was to do with the Time Lords. Ollistra is still trying to recruit the Doctor to the War effort.
A Heart on Both Sides
The Doctor is beginning to see evil on both sides of the war, suggesting this is earlier on before he’s had much involvement with the Time Lord's schemes, especially Lords of Terror where he clearly sees that the Time Lords are willing to be just as bad as the Daleks.
The Missing Link / Darkness and Light The Doctor has kept away from the War where he could and considers getting involved more directly, however has his recent memory wiped.
The Starship of Theseus (Post-Timeline Change) The Doctor loses a friend during an attack on Jupiter (It might not have been Jupiter but that’s where the ship departed in the cruise line timeline). He escapes on the Theseus refugee ship which is later attacked by the Daleks. The TARDIS has its Victorian parlour console room, but this is depicted prior to the timeline changes. He meets Bliss and some other refugees.
The Conscript The Doctor learns about Time Lord conscription for the first time, and has a reputation as a conscientious objector amongst the other Time Lords, reaching as far as Gallifrey itself. Ollistra accepts that the Doctor Won’t join the war, but makes a last ditch attempt by sending him to Harlan’s training camp.
One Life The Doctor gets his TARDIS back, and it now has a new interior. The sound effects seem to be new and are reminscent of a Classic TARDIS, but the cover indicates that it’s the War Doctor interior. All Eighth Doctor Time War Stories from this point onwards use this console room.
State of Bliss It is indicated that the events that occurred on the Theseus had something to do with the Quantum anomaly controlled by Deepa. The Doctor begins to remember companions and events he never had, such as Sheena and Emma because of the changes to reality caused by Deepa and the Quantum anomaly gate.
All Hands on Deck The Doctor, bloodied, paranoid and afraid is hiding from the Time Lords. He has been stealing Susan's “conscription papers” so that she doesn’t know about the ongoing war. The Doctor wants to run away from the War, but Susan decides to join up. As the Doctor is aware of the annexations and conscription, this is later in the War.
Lies in Ruins The Doctor basically loses his marbles because he’s been through the War for so long and is trying to justifying his lack of direct action in the war. He mentions that he’s been standing on the sidelines and helping where he could in the past but considers that it could be time to join the war properly. River reacts to the interior of the Doctor’s TARDIS by saying it’s retro and Benny mentions that she always liked it, so it could be his Victorian interior, but it could also mean he’s gone back to a more classic look for his Tardis interior.
Night of the Doctor The Doctor is still helping where he can and standing on the sidelines of the War, but finally admits that the universe doesn’t need a Doctor anymore, so he regenerates into a Warrior more capable of doing what is necessary in the War.
Unplaced: Museum Peace The Doctor seeks out Kalendorf for advice on a predicament involving the Daleks. He believes he’ll regenerate again soon and has long hair. He believes that his decision could lead to the end of the Daleks but also the loss of everything he knows. This could potentially be a decision to join the Time War, or end the Time War, or something else entirely.
Osskah The Doctor has long hair and a black frock coat. He is working with the Time Lords to prevent a “storm in heaven”.
The Forgotten The Doctor, still with his TV movie appearance, recovers the great key in order to construct a demat gun and end the war. The Tenth Doctor later claims that this is how he ended the Time War.
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