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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 1:34:47 GMT
I know that this thread is a bit early but just in case anyone wanted to start commenting on it or anybody forgot, I have started the thread for our First Doctor Who Group-listen through!
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Post by elkawho on Mar 31, 2016 1:45:21 GMT
Yay!!! I will hold my tongue (fingers?) until April Fool's Day.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 5:45:32 GMT
I lost track of what the schedule is. so we start Marian conspiracy tomorrow?
quite pleased about that. my chronological listen through of 5-8 is great, but I'm really looking forward to someone other than PD. especially now boxsets and lost stories have been added to the list.
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Post by cr1980 on Apr 1, 2016 1:32:29 GMT
Thoughts before listening:
I bought this as part of a subscription back when the price on the first 50 Main Range stories was dropped, and it was a favourite amongst the mixed barrel of the first dozen.
I'd already met Six and Evelyn in Jubilee (my first Who audio), and enjoyed them there. I know I've seen Baker on TV at some stage in the last few decades but I can't actually remember much about his original episodes. So while I was vaguely aware that Colin Baker's era had a mixed reputation, I had no opinions of my own before meeting him in Big Finish audios. I liked Evelyn in Jubilee, and more generally liked the idea of a companion who wasn't a cute-as-a-button girl just out of school.
As far as the history goes, thanks to my addiction to history podcasts my knowledge of the time is a lot better now than when I first listened.
On to episode 1 tonight...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 5:56:56 GMT
I got this story on it's original release and haven't listened to it for something like, oh my... oh. I need to sit down. am I really that old now?
anyway I remember really loving it as it was the first story that broke the pattern of replicating TV partnerships, but can't remember much else. Here we go.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 1, 2016 11:55:37 GMT
As many people on here I've been an MR Subscriber since the very beginning.
My initial thoughts before listening were:
Brave to introduce a new companion so soon and a pure historical for the 6th Doctor too.
Regards
mark687
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Post by elkawho on Apr 3, 2016 18:05:13 GMT
So, lets start discussing.
I think we can all agree that this is a great introduction for Evelyn and an excellent historical. It's not often that I come across a story that is this sympathetic to Bloody Mary.
Any one want some hot cocoa?
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Post by jason on Apr 3, 2016 19:00:31 GMT
I think we can all agree that this is a great introduction for Evelyn and an excellent historical. Any one want some hot cocoa? Heh. Yes, please, on the cocoa but, though a newbie, can I be a little contrarian on this one? (I go back to r.a.d.w in Internet fandom in general, if bona fides are required.) I came really late to the Big Finish party and am mostly a release order weenie, so I listened to this probably a couple of years ago. (So maybe I'm a noob after all.) Only after listening to it, and being kind of disappointed, did I read some reviews and was surprised to find that it was a classic. When so many smart people disagree with me, that usually tells me I need to give my opinion some more thought, at least, which in this case probably means a re-listen, which I may take this very opportunity to do. I guess one main reason I rated this story lower is that - although I love the 60s historicals and am glad BF brought back the sub-genre, even in other Doctors' eras - it felt like it was going to turn into a sc-fi story any minute, what with the paradox plot and my misunderstanding the Part One cliffhanger to mean an alternate reality or changed history. I think if I had known what it was going in, it would have enjoyed it better for what it was. I also felt like the time period was not realized as well as it could have been, especially the English court, which the Doctor just waltzes in and out of. Mary only ever seems to have two or three people nearby, which I'm pretty sure wouldn't have been true even in the 1500s. I did take to Evelyn right away, of course and agree it's nice to go back in time and see an non-orthodox interpretation of the history 'we all know'. The Smith/Smythe twist was very clever and gave the last episode some of the urgency that the Hartnell historicals always had. I do feel I owe the story another chance. I look forward to reading everyone's thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 19:08:57 GMT
Just a note for moderators, should we merge this with the other thread for The Marian Conspiracy?
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 3, 2016 19:23:59 GMT
Threads merged! I also added a Group Listen subtitle. Have already listened to the first 2 parts so hope to add my thoughts soon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 20:39:48 GMT
I've listened to episode one now, and held off to get the effect of the cliffhanger.
My first thought is Colin's Doctor, I've lived for a long time now with the conception that his time with Evelyn softened him, yet in this episode he immediately comes across as a much more sympathetic character. In fact, I could imagine Tennant filling the role in this story very easily (it reminde me a lot of Planet of the Dead's opening).
The story didn't really get much of a chance to get going, but I worked out what the cliffhanger was going to be just close enough to the end of the episode for the right amount of dramatic tension as I willed Evelyn not to say those fatal words.
I've got a long train journey tomorrow so will fit episode two in then.
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Post by glynnlondon on Apr 5, 2016 2:06:01 GMT
Listened to this tonight at work and it is a solid historical. The standouts are of course the scenes between Maggie and Colin. Their rapport with each other is incredible straight out of the box so kudos to BF for finding an actress who played the Evelyn Smythe character so well. The opening act sets the tone between the two well with Evelyn easily giving banter as good as she gets ( lunatic indeed! ) and they must have had fun recording it. After finishing on a good cliffhanger the second act shows Evelyn's determination and historical curiosity as the doctor mixes it with royalty and she with the commoners. A softer side to the doctor is shown as he tries to persuade the queen to show more tolerance in a very well played scene. After this I found to me that it sagged a little with the pill plot and so forth before coming back very strongly in the final act. I particularly enjoyed Evelyn showing her humanity by imploring the doctor to save William and George. Then telling the doctor to pit stop to pick up George's family before informing him that ok she would travel with him for a while, not like he had any choice in th matter! All in all a very enjoyable listen and a great introduction to one of BFs finest creations.
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Post by Hieronymus on Apr 5, 2016 4:30:22 GMT
The Marian Conspiracy was among the first BF releases I listened to, but it wasn't my first Evelyn story.
Not knowing much about BF at first, I'd begun with the early Dalek and the 8th Doctor stories (from CD), and only then decided to try using downloads and listening in order. So, I'd already heard The Apocalypse Element when I came to this one.
I like the way Evelyn is introduced. She has a strong start, where she's in her element and would be in control, if not for the Doctor. We also get several nice character touches, some hints of future stories, and some good dialogue between Evelyn and the Doctor, with both having some quotable lines.
If there's a flaw in the first episode, it's in the way the three men in the tavern are introduced, with each using the full names of the other characters repeatedly. The bit felt forced and didn't actually help me learn the characters or their names. But, this was early BF, and it's a minor point.
The first cliffhanger was nicely done, and the pacing was good. No wasted time, no needless repetition, no filler, just lots of story and character.
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Post by omega on Apr 5, 2016 5:05:10 GMT
No truly evil characters, just people who have opposing viewpoints. You can recognise and even sympathise with the various motivations even when the clash. A phenomenal start for Evelyn, and excellent chemistry with Colin's Doctor. I sure wish I had a mug of cocoa and a chocolate sponge. It's a small thing, but I love how Evelyn's residence is so cluttered, it's full of character. A bit hypocritical of the Doctor to bemoan the muddle though, considering the state the TARDIS is usually in!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 5:21:04 GMT
The Marian Conspiracy was among the first BF releases I listened to, but it wasn't my first Evelyn story. Not knowing much about BF at first, I'd begun with the early Dalek and the 8th Doctor stories (from CD), and only then decided to try using downloads and listening in order. So, I'd already heard The Apocalypse Element when I came to this one .
I like the way Evelyn is introduced. She has a strong start, where she's in her element and would be in control, if not for the Doctor. We also get several nice character touches, some hints of future stories, and some good dialogue between Evelyn and the Doctor, with both having some quotable lines. If there's a flaw in the first episode, it's in the way the three men in the tavern are introduced, with each using the full names of the other characters repeatedly. The bit felt forced and didn't actually help me learn the characters or their names. But, this was early BF, and it's a minor point. The first cliffhanger was nicely done, and the pacing was good. No wasted time, no needless repetition, no filler, just lots of story and character. I spotted the repeated use of full names and wondered if it was an Elizabethan custom? it did feel odd though.
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Post by glynnlondon on Apr 5, 2016 5:36:39 GMT
The Marian Conspiracy was among the first BF releases I listened to, but it wasn't my first Evelyn story. Not knowing much about BF at first, I'd begun with the early Dalek and the 8th Doctor stories (from CD), and only then decided to try using downloads and listening in order. So, I'd already heard The Apocalypse Element when I came to this one .
I like the way Evelyn is introduced. She has a strong start, where she's in her element and would be in control, if not for the Doctor. We also get several nice character touches, some hints of future stories, and some good dialogue between Evelyn and the Doctor, with both having some quotable lines. If there's a flaw in the first episode, it's in the way the three men in the tavern are introduced, with each using the full names hi of the other characters repeatedly. The bit felt forced and didn't actually help me learn the characters or their names. But, this was early BF, and it's a minor point. The first cliffhanger was nicely done, and the pacing was good. No wasted time, no needless repetition, no filler, just lots of story and character. I spotted the repeated use of full names and wondered if it was an Elizabethan custom? it did feel odd though. Yes that's the way I took it as well perhaps they were more formal back then even among friends ?
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Post by elkawho on Apr 5, 2016 12:22:18 GMT
A adore the chemistry between Evelyn and The Doctor right from the start. I love how she assumes that the message from him to go to the castle means that he's in trouble. You'd think she knew him a lot better than she does.
I do agree with a previous poster who was expecting Sixie to start this story as the brash Doctor we knew from TV, I think it may have been more interesting to see his development into the more thoughtful Doctor. That being said, I do love the Doctor's discussions with Mary. As I've said before, it's rare to see Queen Mary portrayed in this way. I didn't exactly like her, but I was able to understand her.
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 5, 2016 23:32:15 GMT
I always meant to relisten to this story but just never seemed to get around to it. So I am glad I had an excuse to finally do so.
I believe this was my 2nd 6th Doctor story. I had seen the Two Doctors but I mainly watched for Two & Jamie. So in many ways I feel Marian Conspiracy was my first real exposure to Sixie. I definitely heard a lot of mixed things about the Sixth Doctor. I did hear his audio stories were the best and I wanted to judge him by his best work. So I purposely made the audios my first real encounter to the Sixth Doctor. Still I guess I was wary due to many of the negative comments. So surprise surprise I ended up warming up to Colin's Doctor right away. And today he's in my top 3. I always say he's the Doctor I never expected to love as much as I do.
As for Evelyn I loved her right from the start. An olde me female companion. It just seemed so novel to me. Although I have to say for some reason listening to this made me super sad & I even started tearing up a bit. I have listened to other Evelyn stories since Maggie passed away but this was my introduction to her (and most people of course). It just made me think that when I first heard this she was still with us and more Evelyn stories were a possibility.
But right from the start I thought Colin & Maggie had beautiful chemistry. Something just clicked and you could tell this was the beginning of something special.
Anyways this is part one of my thoughts. Will add my thoughts on the actual historical aspect of this story sometime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 18:16:18 GMT
Episode 2 today. Crikey not a lot happens does it. No sign of this ancestor of Evelyns yet either.
This is a long way from being my favourite historical so far, maybe the problem here is the lack of interaction between the leads.
anyway, it's all going Back to the Future in the cliffhanger so here's hoping things pick up pace next time.
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Post by glynnlondon on Apr 6, 2016 18:42:51 GMT
Episode 2 today. Crikey not a lot happens does it. No sign of this ancestor of Evelyns yet either. This is a long way from being my favourite historical so far, maybe the problem here is the lack of interaction between the leads. anyway, it's all going Back to the Future in the cliffhanger so here's hoping things pick up pace next time. Yes I think it sags a bit in the middle as well but the first and last episodes are good and the interaction between the doctor and Evelyn helps carry it along Imo.
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