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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 7, 2016 9:16:36 GMT
An interesting one this - considering Evelyn is a Historian, she's very naive lol. I enjoyed it, even though it get's a bit Monty Python-esq at times "Me and the missus went to a lovely hanging last week ..." and it's always nice to hear Evelyn and Sixie, a good start to their travels. Now, I fancy some cocoa  Cheers Tony |
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 7, 2016 13:53:22 GMT
Part 2 of my Musings
So I'd like to preface this with saying I love true blue historicals. It's my favorite aspect of the 1st Doctor era and I wish they didn't go away. I absolutely love Big Finish for keeping them alive. Technically speaking this isn't a true blue historical because it has some sci-fi with Evelyn possibly being erased from history. And some characters from the historical period even ride in the TARDIS. But for me it counts because there is no monster or alien threat.
And I did think this was a very interesting historical albeit it's mainly focused on one historical character. I don't know if this happened to anyone else but when they said the queen was pregnant I did first think we were entering alternate history realms (another type of historical I am quite fond of) thinking that Elizabeth was somehow pregnant. That actually would have been interesting as well. But I do love what we got instead. Evelyn might have been disappointed but I think Mary was a very interesting queen to visit. I really liked that the story showed Mary in a complex manner. It didn't condone her actions but it still managed to show her in a sympathetic light which I found impressive. Because I do think it is hard to portray someone who burned people at the stake for their religious views as anything but very unsympathetic. So major props to the story for actually making me "understand" Mary's thought process. That doesn't mean I agreed with her, and I do agree with Evelyn she was a fanatic. But then she certainly wasn't alone in that regards in that time period. And seriously it's easy to condemn the past. Who is to say how we will be judged by future generations, I expect not that kindly. If the future isn't going to get better than what's the point? I also think the story did a good job of showing at that time neither the Catholic or Protestant side was without fault.
I know I mainly focused on Mary here to the exclusion of the other characters. I suppose she was the most interesting to me besides the Doctor and Evelyn. Although once again no character from the Reverend, to Francois, to Lady Sarah was without their own reasons for doing what they did and the decisions they came to. There were definitely no mustache twirling villains in this story even though it could easily have gone in that direction. History is put on the right course again even though I wouldn't say the story ended "happily ever after" although it does end with a promise of better days to come once Elizabeth becomes Queen. At least for the Protestants.
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Post by elkawho on Apr 8, 2016 2:46:30 GMT
Kim, you seem to be able to put my thoughts and feelings about a story into words so much better than I can. I agree with every word.
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 8, 2016 10:13:52 GMT
Kim, you seem to be able to put my thoughts and feelings about a story into words so much better than I can. I agree with every word. Aww thanks I just like to write a lot as you can see. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 13:27:31 GMT
So, My thoughts? Amazing, I love the characterization of everyone and that there is no real villain just people doing what they believe. But the highlight is the interaction between The Doctor and Evelyn which is absolutely superb. Definitely one of my favourite audios.
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Post by brians on Apr 14, 2016 15:55:23 GMT
got round to episodes 3 and 4 yesterday, they were really good.
The ending of episode 3 felt a bit forced, but everything else about these two episodes was wonderful. You could really get into the psychology of the characters, and the ending had shades of Fires of Pompeii about it.
Especially loved sixes speech about allowing bad things to happen. it was a great moment which made you realise the psychological journey he'd been on since, presumably, the loss of Peri.
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Post by anothermanicmondas on Apr 16, 2016 16:50:19 GMT
I was initially confused by this story because I was thinking about it as Evelyn living an ordinary life for decades and suddenly starting to cease to have existed.
The whole notion of someone, for no apparant reason, being removed from existance is odd and disturbing.
I then started thinking about it the other way round.
What if Evelyn had not existed at all before the story? Could the Doctor's arrival combined with the time anomally he was investigating have created the possibility of her existence causing her to be retrospectively added to reality?
This is still very odd though less disturbing and at least there is some causal link between the events of the story and the changableness of the timeline.
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Post by Ela on Apr 17, 2016 18:28:14 GMT
That doesn't make sense to me at all.
I always saw her as living an ordinary life for decades and then suddenly starting to cease to exist.
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Post by brians on Apr 17, 2016 20:06:27 GMT
That doesn't make sense to me at all. I always saw her as living an ordinary life for decades and then suddenly starting to cease to exist. Yes, but when you think it through, six starts by saying John Whiteside-Smith never existed, but then at the end has some memory of him, so maybe she is some sort of temporal paradox, if only in a minor way. The child would still have been born without there intervention but might have had a different name and wouldn't have been an advisor to Elizabeth |
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Post by Ela on Apr 17, 2016 21:24:17 GMT
I guess. I'll have to listen again, and get back to you on that one. |
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Post by Ela on Apr 19, 2016 3:49:08 GMT
That doesn't make sense to me at all. I always saw her as living an ordinary life for decades and then suddenly starting to cease to exist. Yes, but when you think it through, six starts by saying John Whiteside-Smith never existed, but then at the end has some memory of him, so maybe she is some sort of temporal paradox, if only in a minor way. The child would still have been born without there intervention but might have had a different name and wouldn't have been an advisor to Elizabeth Yes, but Evelyn starts by saying that John Whiteside-Smith is her ancestor. Maybe the Doctor thinks he never existed cause there is a glitch in time that is occurring when they meet. There's lots of ways of thinking of this that make sense. Evelyn clearly has a past and a memory of it, as there are other parts of her past that come out in later stories. I don't buy that Evelyn didn't exist until the Doctor picked her up and fixed things. Just doesn't ring true to me, and I don't think that was the story's intent. But if it makes the story more comprehensible to you, you're welcome to stick to your theory.  |
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Post by brians on Apr 19, 2016 5:14:35 GMT
Yes, but when you think it through, six starts by saying John Whiteside-Smith never existed, but then at the end has some memory of him, so maybe she is some sort of temporal paradox, if only in a minor way. The child would still have been born without there intervention but might have had a different name and wouldn't have been an advisor to Elizabeth Yes, but Evelyn starts by saying that John Whiteside-Smith is her ancestor. Maybe the Doctor thinks he never existed cause there is a glitch in time that is occurring when they meet. There's lots of ways of thinking of this that make sense. Evelyn clearly has a past and a memory of it, as there are other parts of her past that come out in later stories. I don't buy that Evelyn didn't exist until the Doctor picked her up and fixed things. Just doesn't ring true to me, and I don't think that was the story's intent. But if it makes the story more comprehensible to you, you're welcome to stick to your theory. It was someone else's theory that she didn't exist. My theory was just that she shouldn't have known her ancestors name and his role as Elizabeth's advisor until the end of the story because they weren't fixing a hitch in her timeline they were creating one. Of course the plot wouldn't have worked that wa so effectively in my head what was happening was that the Doctor's appearance in her class started to create two potential timelines, one in which she didn't exist, and one in which she had this ancestor, and she was slipping between the two. |
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Post by Ela on Apr 19, 2016 17:51:54 GMT
Ah, gotcha.
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Post by brians on Apr 20, 2016 6:18:39 GMT
Just finished it after a week of procrastination. I was finally able to get in the mood for a Colin story, so that was why it took so long. Rambling time: I liked the story, especially the opening sequence in the University. The last part I thought was a brilliant way of ending a story; resolving the plot early on so that you can wrap up all the loose ends tightly. Needed in a tale such as this, about historical shenanigans. What else... Oh, I really liked the fairly large cast of characters, and all of them seemed at the very least fleshed out enough that you could imagine them having lives of their own. More thoughts later. Or not, I don't know. The characters were all very good weren't they. the way they finished it left me thinking that really there wasn't a clear goodie and baddie the way we often have in Doctor Who, just lots of very genuine people, doing what they thought was necessary. Which just made the outcome all the more tragic. |
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Post by Timelord007 on Apr 20, 2016 6:57:13 GMT
A wonderful debut historical adventure for new companion Evelyn who's chemistry with the Sixth Doctor is there from the moment he interrupts her lecture.
One of Big Finishes best historical story's that's wonderfully written, paced & characterized.
Gets a 9/10 from me.
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Post by anothermanicmondas on Apr 23, 2016 20:21:51 GMT
Yes, but when you think it through, six starts by saying John Whiteside-Smith never existed, but then at the end has some memory of him, so maybe she is some sort of temporal paradox, if only in a minor way. The child would still have been born without there intervention but might have had a different name and wouldn't have been an advisor to Elizabeth Yes, but Evelyn starts by saying that John Whiteside-Smith is her ancestor. Maybe the Doctor thinks he never existed cause there is a glitch in time that is occurring when they meet. There's lots of ways of thinking of this that make sense. Evelyn clearly has a past and a memory of it, as there are other parts of her past that come out in later stories. I don't buy that Evelyn didn't exist until the Doctor picked her up and fixed things. Just doesn't ring true to me, and I don't think that was the story's intent. But if it makes the story more comprehensible to you, you're welcome to stick to your theory. Time travel stories often include concepts that are hard to "get the head round" Read Harry Harrison's "The Technicolour Time Machine" and "The Stainless Steel Rat saves the World" for examples when dealing with stories of changing timelines then you have the seperate timelines and the meta-timeline governing which time "happened" at any point So if someone goes back in time and changes the past then what happened before they went back in time before they went back in time is not the same as what happened before they went back in time after they went back in time... So as Evelyn comes into existance it is not simply a change from when the Doctor met her but a change to events in the Tudor period onward so her entire life history and many ancestors are coming into existence and who knows what else.. If a time traveller prevents their past from happening then it can cause a paradox (such as the grandfather paradox in which the time traveller prevents themselves from being born which means the timetraveller cannot go back in time and prevent himself from being born so...) It is odd but not a paradox if a time traveller goes back in time and makes their past happen. I see The Marion Conspiracy as a time travel story with similarities to the Day of the Daleks. I am assuming anyone reading this will have watched Day of the Daleks - if anyone has not - what are you waiting for? Watch it now and continue reading this later (or alternatively watch Day of the Daleks now and ignore this post -I won't mind) In my opinion, both stories concern a possible alternative timeline coming into existance and someone from this alternative timeline going back in time and influencing events in a manner which could bring their timeline into existence. The 2 (or 3) big differences are the perspective from which the audience are seeing it (from the later period in Marion conspiracy and the earlier period in Day of the Daleks), and the final result (the Doctor making the altenative timeline "real" in the Marion conspiracy and preventing the alternative timeline in Day of the Daleks from becoming "real"). Evelyn's instability due to her timeline being potential rather than actual does not have an equivalent in Day of the Daleks of course some stories can be more complicated - like Flip Flop {Flip Flop spoiler}
This is a paradox situation when an event in a timeline prevents the timeline from happening. In timeline A1 people go back in time changing the timeline to B1 in which people go back in time and change to A2 (similar but not exactly the same as A1) which causes B2 leading to A3 ...etc. until you eventually get Ax which causes Bx which causes Ax - which is where the story occurs
(I suspect White is Ax and Black is Bx) |
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Post by jason on Apr 24, 2016 12:30:51 GMT
Yes, but Evelyn starts by saying that John Whiteside-Smith is her ancestor. Maybe the Doctor thinks he never existed cause there is a glitch in time that is occurring when they meet. There's lots of ways of thinking of this that make sense. Evelyn clearly has a past and a memory of it, as there are other parts of her past that come out in later stories. I don't buy that Evelyn didn't exist until the Doctor picked her up and fixed things. Just doesn't ring true to me, and I don't think that was the story's intent. But if it makes the story more comprehensible to you, you're welcome to stick to your theory. Time travel stories often include concepts that are hard to "get the head round" Read Harry Harrison's "The Technicolour Time Machine" and "The Stainless Steel Rat saves the World" for examples Also try Heinlein's 'All You Zombies' if you like wacky, intricate time paradox stories. |
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Post by omega on Mar 24, 2018 8:33:55 GMT
DOCTOR WHO - MAIN RANGE » 6. THE MARIAN CONSPIRACY Released March 2000SynopsisTracking a nexus point in time, the Doctor meets Dr Evelyn Smythe, a history lecturer whose own history seems to be rapidly vanishing. The Doctor must travel back to Tudor times to stabilise the nexus and save Evelyn's life. But there he meets the Queen of England and use all his skills of diplomacy to avoid ending up on the headman's block... Written By: Jacqueline Rayner Directed By: Gary Russell CASTColin Baker (The Doctor); Maggie Stables (Evelyn Smythe); Sean Jackson (George Crow); Gary Russell (John Wilson); Jez Fielder (William Leaf); Jo Castleton (Lady Sarah); Anah Ruddin (The Queen); Nicholas Pegg (Reverend Thomas); Barnaby Edwards (Francois De Noailles); Alistair Lock (Royal Guard)
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Post by omega on Mar 24, 2018 8:37:53 GMT
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Mar 24, 2018 13:26:07 GMT
Perfect introduction for Evelyn. One of the best original BF Companions every created and Maggie Stables gave her so much life and personality. Her and Colin Baker were a great double act
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