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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 14:45:46 GMT
I'm not sure I'd add Capaldi's Doctor alongside Hartnell's in this debate. While very similar ages when cast, Capaldi was a much fitter, healthier 55. Capaldi, though he did need some work on his knees after his Who stint was over, managed all the running through corridors that he needed to with zero issue. Hartnell was cast in that Quatermass era where older men were almost shorthand for scientific boffins, hence casting Russ to do (literally) the heavy lifting as Ian. Today an actor as immobile as Hartnell was would almost certainly be overlooked -even when John Hurt was cast he didn't need to jog much less run, didn't need to do anything more physically taxing than walking. Anyone calling Capaldi feeble in 2014 would be plain wrong. Anyone saying it of Hartnell's Doctor...well, they'd have a point yet they'd be wrong too in a different way as being mid 50s but seeming mid 70s was kinda his thing - and he wasn't there to do the physicalities anyway outside of the odd comic bit in The Romans and the like. Essentially with Capaldi I don't think it was ageism in terms of thinking him "feeble", I think it was more shallow than that, it was on looks and on expectation. And I don't even think it's a modern bias either - if somehow there was a timeshift and the first two Doctors were Davison-McGann age and looks..would they have cast a Hartnell to follow as the third Doc? That's true, I'm talking more in the context of the characters themselves rather than the actors who played them. Hartnell's Doctor benefitted from an era of television that was still written in the style of stageplays and radio dramas, rather than the more visually cinematic bent of today. There wasn't the expectation that he'd need to be hoisted up on a harness for a zero-gravity CSO shot or have him run the length of Verdun for some location footage. It just wasn't how television handled those sorts of characters and little tricks like inclusion of the Doctor's cane helped enormously in what little athletics were required (see the fight with the robot in The Chase). Nevertheless, I've heard them both described in the same breath as their "oldness" being a limited factor. More than a bit reductionist, I think, it lacks that appropriate nuance. Well, going back to what you said about Tennant and Smith's characterisations, that's one of the things I appreciate about the Fifth Doctor. It would've been extremely easy to structure this younger incarnation around his looks, but the production office deliberately distanced him from that. The result actually enhanced the character, helping to establish his quintessential "Doctorishness", for want of a better word. Yet Davison himself didn't feel he found any degree of Doctorishness tilll his third run and even then thinks he took on the role too young something which some fans who always found him "vanilla" agree with. Personally I think the underrated thing about "vanilla" is that it mixes well with others and is adaptable! Even, to go back to your first paragraph, in actor context as I said - the characters themselves were clearly at different levels of acceptance over their advancing years. Witness Capadli's Doctor's anger when David Bradley assumed he'd get younger after regeneration for one! Again Hartnell was cast in an era when UK sci-fi leads looked like Esmond Knight from A For Anromeda or Reginald Tate's Quatermass. I'm not sure how much of that was coming out of an era of radio and stage and how much it was just...that's what leading men looked like. Tennant or Smith would never have been the leading man then, they'd be the son or a second lead. Things change I guess but as we saw with Jodie's casting even for a show fundamentally built on change certain parts of it's fandom are strangely all for it being encased in amber.
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Post by frisby78 on Feb 3, 2020 14:50:03 GMT
Also I wonder how 12 would reveal to Clara that he’d changed into a young man? Would he surprise her with it by meeting her at Cole Hill School, ask her to meet him in the TARDIS, or would he try to go about as normal and see how Clara reacted🤔 I think she might go into absolute shock at first when she saw him😯 Would Clara feel betrayed too? Finally hot used to loosing 'her' young doctor for the older 12 and then this happens!?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 2:22:56 GMT
That's true, I'm talking more in the context of the characters themselves rather than the actors who played them. Hartnell's Doctor benefitted from an era of television that was still written in the style of stageplays and radio dramas, rather than the more visually cinematic bent of today. There wasn't the expectation that he'd need to be hoisted up on a harness for a zero-gravity CSO shot or have him run the length of Verdun for some location footage. It just wasn't how television handled those sorts of characters and little tricks like inclusion of the Doctor's cane helped enormously in what little athletics were required (see the fight with the robot in The Chase). Nevertheless, I've heard them both described in the same breath as their "oldness" being a limited factor. More than a bit reductionist, I think, it lacks that appropriate nuance. Well, going back to what you said about Tennant and Smith's characterisations, that's one of the things I appreciate about the Fifth Doctor. It would've been extremely easy to structure this younger incarnation around his looks, but the production office deliberately distanced him from that. The result actually enhanced the character, helping to establish his quintessential "Doctorishness", for want of a better word. Yet Davison himself didn't feel he found any degree of Doctorishness tilll his third run and even then thinks he took on the role too young something which some fans who always found him "vanilla" agree with. Personally I think the underrated thing about "vanilla" is that it mixes well with others and is adaptable! Even, to go back to your first paragraph, in actor context as I said - the characters themselves were clearly at different levels of acceptance over their advancing years. Witness Capadli's Doctor's anger when David Bradley assumed he'd get younger after regeneration for one! Again Hartnell was cast in an era when UK sci-fi leads looked like Esmond Knight from A For Anromeda or Reginald Tate's Quatermass. I'm not sure how much of that was coming out of an era of radio and stage and how much it was just...that's what leading men looked like. Tennant or Smith would never have been the leading man then, they'd be the son or a second lead. Things change I guess but as we saw with Jodie's casting even for a show fundamentally built on change certain parts of it's fandom are strangely all for it being encased in amber. It's really fascinating, isn't it? What's become cast in marble over fifty years and what hasn't. We know the Doctor's space-time machine as "the TARDIS", not " Tardis", but that acronym (and definite article) didn't normalise until the Target novelisations in the mid-1970s. On the other hand, whether it's "console room" or "control room" is a debate that's still ongoing today. Hence... this... thread... *looks around* Well, we had to come full circle some time. I hope this idea doesn’t sound too much like fan fiction 🤔 because I actually think this story idea of 12 temporarily becoming a younger more idealized version of himself could actually work well as a big finish audio drama one day, for one thing it would definitely give Peter a different side of 12 to play😀 I'd say its feasible from a technical standpoint. Reduce a bit of the bass, pitch up the voice a little, and... *nods* It could be done.
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Post by frisby78 on Feb 7, 2020 21:08:47 GMT
Would Clara feel betrayed too? Finally hot used to loosing 'her' young doctor for the older 12 and then this happens!? As well as Clara, I wonder how UNIT would react🤔 I have a feeling the Osgood’s might have a favorable reaction😉 I think Kate Stuart would at most would probably just roll her eyes 🙄 As you say I don't think they would bat an eyelid! 😁
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Post by frisby78 on Feb 7, 2020 22:35:22 GMT
As you say I don't think they would bat an eyelid! 😁 I wonder who else it would be interesting to see react to 12 becoming younger 🤔 Missy and Nardole for a start. 😉😊
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Post by Whovitt on Feb 10, 2020 15:04:36 GMT
If my young 12 story ever does get made into a Big Finish audio, even though being younger would make 12 more confident expressing his feelings for Clara, I only want 12 and Clara to have only one kiss the entire story at the end after he’s changed back into his normal silver haired self. This would be both as massive screw you to all the ageists who who don’t want to accept 12 and Clara as a couple (even though they clearly are) and show that Clara loves and has accepted 12 as his true self. I don’t want them to just do a little kiss on the cheek or hand like they normally do either but a big passionate one like 10 and Rose Tyler on the beach! Then no one can pretend they that they are just friends or have a father daughter relationship ever again! I know this would be hugely controversial but it’s always bothered me that so many people deny 12 and Clara as a couple( when they clearly are one) simply because of the age difference. I always thought the reason people didn't consider them as a couple was because it was one of the things the Capaldi specifically requested the show not to do when he joined. I remember reading interviews with him back in 2014 where he was saying how he had refused to do anything romantic with Clara as he didn't want that kind of relationship between her and his Doctor (although I may be the only person who remembers this, so perhaps I'm just misremembering...). The only reason I wouldn't want a romantic relationship explored between Twelve and Clara is based solely on that interview, not because of ageism. (I'm not trying to disparage your idea by the way - I actually think there is some good story potential in making Twelve younger for a short period of time - I'm just sharing some info )
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 16:18:10 GMT
I always thought the reason people didn't consider them as a couple was because it was one of the things the Capaldi specifically requested the show not to do when he joined. I remember reading interviews with him back in 2014 where he was saying how he had refused to do anything romantic with Clara as he didn't want that kind of relationship between her and his Doctor (although I may be the only person who remembers this, so perhaps I'm just misremembering...). The only reason I wouldn't want a romantic relationship explored between Twelve and Clara is based solely on that interview, not because of ageism. (I'm not trying to disparage your idea by the way - I actually think there is some good story potential in making Twelve younger for a short period of time - I'm just sharing some info ) I heard about those interviews but he said in a filmed interview that they completely misquoted him and he gave a later interview where he said him and Clara had a “truly romantic relationship”. Here’s the proof to the contrary: Where he says that he never actually said that he didn’t want 12 and Clara to have a romance and was completely misquoted in those interviews: youtu.be/YWbZtUQw1ngWhere he says 12 and Clara have a truly romantic relationship: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2sAnd thanks for saying that you like my story idea 😉 In that first video though Capaldi does explicitly says he did want to avoid any kind "Papa-Nicole" thing between him and Jenna, which really does lend the notion that Capaldi didn't want to be seen to be in something a bit romantic with someone the same kind of age as his kids . I think that does tend to back up what Whovitt means there, and it's Capaldi himself saying it not any press misquotes. In the second vid, he kinda clarifies himself he's not talking romance in any kind of physical way but in the classical sense, where he feels protective over someone he has affection for. In essence, the duty of care that would be much more explored in Series 9 so I don't think it contradicts what Whovitt was saying there either. I think wanting the stories to "be romantic" and "have romance" for The Doctor and Clara are two subtly distinctive things and Capaldi was for the latter but against the former on the evidence of those videos. While I really appreciate your passion for your story idea what I personally take from that first series, and Deep Breath in particular, is that when Clara and Vastra have the veil conversation, Vastra says to Clara "The young man disappeared, the veil lifted. He trusted you.". I find that idea to be much more profound - that The Doctor is comfortable being the older person that he really is rather than maintaining a facade for the sake of his companion. I like the notion that his relationship with Clara is so different to Matt's. "Clara, I'm not your boyfriend...I never said it was your mistake". That's really quite strong character stuff and I wouldn't like to think he really still wanted to be the flirty younger guy but just couldn't because he looked older now as that doesn't seem to be in the spirit of what the 12th Doctor "is" or what Moffat and Capaldi were creating. I think intentionally the flirting was saved for Missy and River as there's no "Papa-Nicole" issue there given the actresses are both closer in age to Capaldi. I really don't want you to feel like I'm dismissing your ideas - I think they've got some really interesting aspects and that when aging up was an aspect of that incarnation it really would be interesting to see the same incarnation reversed short term yet I think it would need to be careful as it does some somewhat antithetical to what all involved seemed to be trying to create in revising Clara's relationship with The Doctor.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 17:04:47 GMT
In that first video though Capaldi does explicitly says he did want to avoid any kind "Papa-Nicole" thing between him and Jenna, which really does lend the notion that Capaldi didn't want to be seen to be in something a bit romantic with someone the same kind of age as his kids . I think that does tend to back up what Whovitt means there, and it's Capaldi himself saying it not any press misquotes. In the second vid, he kinda clarifies himself he's not talking romance in any kind of physical way but in the classical sense, where he feels protective over someone he has affection for. In essence, the duty of care that would be much more explored in Series 9 so I don't think it contradicts what Whovitt was saying there either. I think wanting the stories to "be romantic" and "have romance" for The Doctor and Clara are two subtly distinctive things and Capaldi was for the latter but against the former on the evidence of those videos. While I really appreciate your passion for your story idea what I personally take from that first series, and Deep Breath in particular, is that when Clara and Vastra have the veil conversation, Vastra says to Clara "The young man disappeared, the veil lifted. He trusted you.". I find that idea to be much more profound - that The Doctor is comfortable being the older person that he really is rather than maintaining a facade for the sake of his companion. I like the notion that his relationship with Clara is so different to Matt's. "Clara, I'm not your boyfriend...I never said it was your mistake". That's really quite strong character stuff and I wouldn't like to think he really still wanted to be the flirty younger guy but just couldn't because he looked older now as that doesn't seem to be in the spirit of what the 12th Doctor "is" or what Moffat and Capaldi were creating. I think intentionally the flirting was saved for Missy and River as there's no "Papa-Nicole" issue there given the actresses are both closer in age to Capaldi. I really don't want you to feel like I'm dismissing your ideas - I think they've got some really interesting aspects and that when aging up was an aspect of that incarnation it really would be interesting to see the same incarnation reversed short term yet I think it would need to be careful as it does some somewhat antithetical to what all involved seemed to be trying to create in revising Clara's relationship with The Doctor. I see your point, if I do ever write this story for big finish I will be very careful about how I portray it. I still think there is evidence that 12 and Clara are a couple, just alone in Last Christmas Clara says that he was the only person other than Danny she would want to marry, it’s just subtler than it was with 11 and Clara. Yes they have a different kind of relationship but it clearly is still there. Also this interview😉 www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-05-19/steven-moffat-its-funny-watching-peter-capaldis-doctor-pretend-he-doesnt-fancy-clara/Yet that article right below it has Capaldi again saying it was him who asked specifically to avoid any hints of actual romance and that if Moffat sees it differently "Guess we’ll have to wait until the new series to see who turns out to be right…" - well, we did see the new series and Capaldi was right! To me that is just Moffat being the carnival barker saying "who knows what you might see, might not - who knows...you'll have to watch and find out..." In the vid you posted above Moffat talks about Hartnell flirting with Barbara and Troughton with Zoe so I guess Moff just sees the Doctor flirting everywhere! That article, and I'd imagine it's this very kind of article Whovitt was remembering, came out between Seasons 8 and 9 and as we saw there was even less flirting in that next run than in S8, but more classically romantic ideas with the major theme of the season being that The Doctor worries about Clara's welfare in being reckless wanting to travel with him as some kind of death wish after Danny's death. We'd obviously see that reach it's conclusion later in Series 9 where he realised the most "romantic" thing they could do would be break up for good. I just that underpinned deeper feeling is so much more powerful than anything physical could be. Especially when we would have a coda to 2015's season with River where you really CAN find the sort of physical romance I just don't think is there between Capaldi's Doc and Jenna.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 17:36:51 GMT
Yet that article right below it has Capaldi again saying it was him who asked specifically to avoid any hints of actual romance and that if Moffat sees it differently "Guess we’ll have to wait until the new series to see who turns out to be right…" - well, we did see the new series and Capaldi was right! To me that is just Moffat being the carnival barker saying "who knows what you might see, might not - who knows...you'll have to watch and find out..." In the vid you posted above Moffat talks about Hartnell flirting with Barbara and Troughton with Zoe so I guess Moff just sees the Doctor flirting everywhere! That article came out between Seasons 8 and 9 and as we saw there was even less flirting in that next run than in S8, but more classically romantic ideas with the major theme of the season being that The Doctor worries about Clara's welfare in being reckless wanting to travel with him as some kind of death wish after Danny's death. We'd obviously see that reach it's conclusion later in Series 9 where he realised the most "romantic" thing they could do would be break up for good. I just that underpinned deeper feeling is so much more powerful than anything physical could be. Especially when we would have a coda to 2015's season with River where you really CAN find the sort of physical romance I just don't think is there between Capaldi's Doc and Jenna. Your point is valid and you do back it up well, I just have a slightly different opinion than you on the matter ( and that’s okay, it’s good that everyone has different opinions🙂). I am still sticking to my opinions on the matter because I think it’s is not a black and white issue, and there are multiple layers to the relationship. I think while your take is absolutely valid there equally evidence to the contrary, and I am sure I am not alone in my thinking. I know full well I am in the minority of people who don’t mind romance between the Doctor and companions but I am sticking to my views on this one. On a side note I would like to compliment you on your debate skills, you would make a good lawyer or politician🙂 I should say I'm all for romance on the show, and like you am all for it involving The Doctor but that's not to say I think it need always be there, or always is intended as more than an inkling but I think you're 100% right, we either see it or we don't and there's no right or wrong in reading subtext. It's subjective. I think they made a conscious change in light of Peter's casting and that he himself clearly felt it was needed, hence his (apparently oft-quoted given its in both a video and an article on this page!) "Papa-Nicole" anxiety. You should indeed follow your inclinations if it's you who wants to write the piece as imagine how hard you'd kick yourself if someone else did something similiar! Why not submit it the next time they have the Short Trips submissions open?
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Post by Whovitt on Feb 11, 2020 0:24:22 GMT
I don't think there's much more for me to say here, @davygallagher has already covered everything fully and more fluently than I would have. I'm very much in his line of thinking, but I'm still behind a younger Twelve story as there really are a number of possibilities that could be done with the idea
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Post by Whovitt on Feb 11, 2020 5:06:49 GMT
I don't think there's much more for me to say here, @davygallagher has already covered everything fully and more fluently than I would have. I'm very much in his line of thinking, but I'm still behind a younger Twelve story as there really are a number of possibilities that could be done with the idea That’s fair enough I just have a slight difference of opinion from you guys, and that’s okay 😉 I am glad you like my story idea though 😀 Out of curiosity, what possibilities would you want to see explored with my young 12 story?😊 It's an interesting question. Your idea of a young Twelve has a lot of merit, but if it were to happen these are the main points I'd like to see (though they may not all fit with the way your interpretation would take it): 1.The story should take place before Into the Dalek. 2. Clara would realise that while she liked her dashing young Doctor, it wasn't being young and dashing that made him who he was, it was his deeds and the way he went about achieving them. She'll appreciate the Doctor's efforts to conform to what she knows, but she'll want him be who he wants to be and not what they both thought she wanted (but doesn't want any more). [This one probably works in the way you would tell the story] 3. Clara would realise that while she thought she wanted to have a more "permanent" relationship with the Doctor (for lack of a better word), she realises that the bond they share is something far more significant. They both compliment each other in so many important ways that having that sort of serious relationship might detract from what makes them work together so well. [This one probably wouldn't work with the story you would tell] 4. The Doctor would move passed his insecurities about his older form. While he's just trying to keep his friend by doing what he thinks will make them happy (much like Missy does in Death in Heaven), he'll decide that he doesn't want to pretend to be somebody he's not, so he'll return to his older form (but not tell Clara that this is his reason for doing so). He will change back before Clara gets a chance to say that that's what she actually wants (another comparison to Death in Heaven with their cafe scene, with neither actually saying what's really going on), so neither is 100% certain how the other one feels but are both prepared to take the risk and continue travelling together (allowing Twelve to continue questioning himself and proceed with the "Good Man" arc). This ultimately pays off as we've seen all the adventures that take place afterwards. [This might work in your story] Basically, I want the characters to reach the natural conclusions about themselves without letting the other know how they're truly feeling about it all. It would allow for reasonable character development but also a tinge of tragedy. It also maintains established continuity pretty well (because I'm a sucker for that ) but still feels like a believable stretch in a new direction. Don't ask me what the main narrative plot of the story should be though, as I've got no idea
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Post by timegirl on Feb 11, 2020 5:23:28 GMT
That’s fair enough I just have a slight difference of opinion from you guys, and that’s okay 😉 I am glad you like my story idea though 😀 Out of curiosity, what possibilities would you want to see explored with my young 12 story?😊 It's an interesting question. Your idea of a young Twelve has a lot of merit, but if it were to happen these are the main points I'd like to see (though they may not all fit with the way your interpretation would take it): 1.The story should take place before Into the Dalek. 2. Clara would realise that while she liked her dashing young Doctor, it wasn't being young and dashing that made him who he was, it was his deeds and the way he went about achieving them. She'll appreciate the Doctor's efforts to conform to what she knows, but she'll want him be who he wants to be and not what they both thought she wanted (but doesn't want any more). [This one probably works in the way you would tell the story] 3. Clara would realise that while she thought she wanted to have a more "permanent" relationship with the Doctor (for lack of a better word), she realises that the bond they share is something far more significant. They both compliment each other in so many important ways that having that sort of serious relationship might detract from what makes them work together so well. [This one probably wouldn't work with the story you would tell] 4. The Doctor would move passed his insecurities about his older form. While he's just trying to keep his friend by doing what he thinks will make them happy (much like Missy does in Death in Heaven), he'll decide that he doesn't want to pretend to be somebody he's not, so he'll return to his older form (but not tell Clara that this is his reason for doing so). He will change back before Clara gets a chance to say that that's what she actually wants (another comparison to Death in Heaven with their cafe scene, with neither actually saying what's really going on), so neither is 100% certain how the other one feels but are both prepared to take the risk and continue travelling together (allowing Twelve to continue questioning himself and proceed with the "Good Man" arc). This ultimately pays off as we've seen all the adventures that take place afterwards. [This might work in your story] Basically, I want the characters to reach the natural conclusions about themselves without letting the other know how they're truly feeling about it all. It would allow for reasonable character development but also a tinge of tragedy. It also maintains established continuity pretty well (because I'm a sucker for that ) but still feels like a believable stretch in a new direction. Don't ask me what the main narrative plot of the story should be though, as I've got no idea Interesting I like it!😊 I will keep these idea in consideration! Interestingly I was hoping to bring a twinge of melancholy 😢to the story which I think is what you imagined as well🤔🙂
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Post by timegirl on Feb 14, 2020 22:56:17 GMT
Thinking about that very awkward scene between Graham and 13, what if it was foreshadowing something in this big Last Great Cyber War finale we are getting at the end of this of this series? Now don’t get me wrong this would be extremely dark and downright controversial twist if they did this, but what if Graham is so worried about his cancer coming back and let down by the fact that 13 is unable to properly reassure him about it; that he purposely volunteers himself to be converted into a Cyberman after hearing about how conversion will free him from illness!😱🤔
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 14, 2020 23:11:46 GMT
Thinking about that very awkward scene between Graham and 13, what if it was foreshadowing something in this big Last Great Cyber War finale we are getting at the end of this of this series? Now don’t get me wrong this would be extremely dark and downright controversial twist if they did this, but what if Graham is so worried about his cancer coming back and let down by the fact that 13 is unable to properly reassure him about it; that he purposely volunteers himself to be converted into a Cyberman after hearing about how conversion will free him from illness!😱🤔 Yeah, on several internet groups this has already been suggested as a kind of obvious fore-shadowed twist... I still hope it turns out to be a bit more clever than this to be honest... I don't know, it just sounds a bit like an easy way out. And it would be yet another companion converted. In a finale.
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Post by timegirl on Feb 14, 2020 23:31:47 GMT
Thinking about that very awkward scene between Graham and 13, what if it was foreshadowing something in this big Last Great Cyber War finale we are getting at the end of this of this series? Now don’t get me wrong this would be extremely dark and downright controversial twist if they did this, but what if Graham is so worried about his cancer coming back and let down by the fact that 13 is unable to properly reassure him about it; that he purposely volunteers himself to be converted into a Cyberman after hearing about how conversion will free him from illness!😱🤔 Yeah, on several internet groups this has already been suggested as a kind of obvious fore-shadowed twist... I still hope it turns out to be a bit more clever than this to be honest... I don't know, it just sounds a bit like an easy way out. And it would be yet another companion converted. In a finale.
Alternatively what if Graham finds out his cancer has come back and simply self sacrifices himself in the finale? Or and this is even more out there ( but come after the plot twists we have already had this series anything could happen) what if in the Timeless Children it’s revealed Graham is actually another Chameleon arched incarnation of the Doctor like Ruth?! He does get mistaken for the Doctor an awful lot, maybe it’s for a very good reason!🤔😉
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 14, 2020 23:38:02 GMT
Yeah, on several internet groups this has already been suggested as a kind of obvious fore-shadowed twist... I still hope it turns out to be a bit more clever than this to be honest... I don't know, it just sounds a bit like an easy way out. And it would be yet another companion converted. In a finale.
Alternatively what if Graham finds out his cancer has come back and simply self sacrifices himself in the finale? Or and this is even more out there ( but come after the plot twists we have already had this series anything could happen) what if in the Timeless Children it’s revealed Graham is actually another Chameleon arched incarnation of the Doctor like Ruth?! He does get mistaken for the Doctor an awful lot, maybe it’s for a very good reason!🤔😉 Plus, do not forget! Yaz has been behaving really oddly all series, too.
I still have the pet theory that they (or maybe just the Doctor) are trapped inside the Master's Tardis since Spyfall and this is why all the weird stuff happens... and everything appears to be out of sync.
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Post by timegirl on Feb 14, 2020 23:46:43 GMT
Alternatively what if Graham finds out his cancer has come back and simply self sacrifices himself in the finale? Or and this is even more out there ( but come after the plot twists we have already had this series anything could happen) what if in the Timeless Children it’s revealed Graham is actually another Chameleon arched incarnation of the Doctor like Ruth?! He does get mistaken for the Doctor an awful lot, maybe it’s for a very good reason!🤔😉 Plus, do not forget! Yaz has been behaving really oddly all series, too.
I still have the pet theory that they (or maybe just the Doctor) are trapped inside the Master's Tardis since Spyfall and this is why all the weird stuff happens... and everything appears to be out of sync.
That would be an amazing and unique twist if it is the case!😃 if it is all in the master’s TARDIS is everything an illusion that’s been happening or is the master’s TARDIS really just that big?! Also what do you think is up with Yaz do you think she could have been working with the Master this whole time or could she have a secret identity as well?!
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Post by frisby78 on Feb 15, 2020 0:07:27 GMT
Alternatively what if Graham finds out his cancer has come back and simply self sacrifices himself in the finale? Or and this is even more out there ( but come after the plot twists we have already had this series anything could happen) what if in the Timeless Children it’s revealed Graham is actually another Chameleon arched incarnation of the Doctor like Ruth?! He does get mistaken for the Doctor an awful lot, maybe it’s for a very good reason!🤔😉 Plus, do not forget! Yaz has been behaving really oddly all series, too.
I still have the pet theory that they (or maybe just the Doctor) are trapped inside the Master's Tardis since Spyfall and this is why all the weird stuff happens... and everything appears to be out of sync.
Interesting idea, though they would have to be careful it didn't turn into a 'Dallas shower cop out'.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 6:08:49 GMT
Plus, do not forget! Yaz has been behaving really oddly all series, too. I still have the pet theory that they (or maybe just the Doctor) are trapped inside the Master's Tardis since Spyfall and this is why all the weird stuff happens... and everything appears to be out of sync.
Interesting idea, though they would have to be careful it didn't turn into a 'Dallas shower cop out'. Yeah, it'd have to be handled delicately to avoid the "We were inside VR all along!" kind of resolution. Mind you, it does open up some truly fascinating possibilities. For instance, we don't actually know what happens when more than two TARDISes materialise within one another. Does it become like a Russian nesting doll where it's capsules all the way down? Or do the dimensions amalgamate into their own macrouniverse? Is it like a stable generation ship with a recognisable landscape or much more chaotic? There've got to be whole battalions still floating out there trapped inside one another by temporal weaponry. Just as a set piece, what if the TARDIS accidentally materialised among the "battleground casualties", so to speak, of the War and the Doctor had to contend with TARDISes gone mad, bad and dangerous to know?
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Post by timegirl on Feb 25, 2020 22:37:43 GMT
This is probably a really bizarre idea, but what if say in the the 60th anniversary special all the incarnations of the Doctor temporarily fused together into some sort of omniDoctor that combined all of their personalities and abilities into one being?🤔😀
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