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Post by timegirl on Oct 6, 2020 13:30:21 GMT
I love Human Nature, and I love 10 ( second favorite New Who Doctor), but I think it would have rung a lot more true if it was with a far more alien incarnation of the Doctor. I haven’t read the original novel it’s based on with 7 yet, but I would imagine that the contrast is much more effective between the Doctor and John Smith. I kind of wish Human Nature (tv episode) was with a more alien New Who incarnation of the Doctor like 9, 11, or 12. I imagine the contrast if any of them became human would be much more drastic and shocking. In fact I wish I could see what all the Doctors as humans would be like 🤔
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Post by timegirl on Oct 18, 2020 15:12:24 GMT
I am so tired of always hearing about how Last Christmas should have ended with Clara being old and the Doctor should have gone off with Shona and how the ending where Clara is young again and they leave together is tacked on and stupid. I truly believe that the ending that they gave us is beautiful and magical and uplifting (plus it doesn’t hurt for me that Clara gave 12 a kiss on the cheek)and I cry every time I watch it! I am glad Clara stayed with the Doctor because the arc of series 9 would not have worked at all with any new ordinary companion, because there is an epic almost mythical element to 12 and Clara’s relationship with the way they continue to make sacrifices and take risks for each other. The ending to this episode to me has the feel of some of the best Christmas stories and fairytales ( almost evoking the Nutcracker in some ways ) and I think it is highly underrated and deserves more praise than hate.
This is going to sound weird but sometimes I feel guilty for not liking 13 more than I do. Don’t get me wrong there are things I like about like her , she’s very good in episodes like Demons of the Punjab, It takes You Away, Fugitive of the Judoon and Timeless Children and you can tell Jodie is trying her best with the material. But I guess I feel guilty because she’s the first female Doctor, so I want to cheer her on. I think it has to do with the fact that I love the previous incarnation of the Doctor (12) so much more to the point where in my mind he’s often still the Doctor and not her. 12 just seems much more like a living breathing person than 13, to the point where I actually avoid rewatching his regeneration scene because it feels too much like a real death. I try to come up with fun head cannons and things with 13, but I often just struggle because 13’s personality and arch just appeals to me less. I also don’t like some of 13’s actions like letting the spiders suffocate, letting kerblam continue to mistreat it’s employees, and turning of the Master’s perception filter so the Nazis would get him. Sometimes (and this isn’t Jodie’s fault) her Doctor feels a little to falsely cheerful in a way that grates a bit. I try to route for 13 because I want to like her but I have come to the conclusion she will never be my favorite. I do have a feeling however that one day BF might work their magic on her and do a bit of fixing.
Even though 10 is my second favorite new Who Doctor, I have come to the conclusion that this because of the strength David Tennant’s performance and I wouldn’t like 10 nearly as much if he was played by anyone else. I think I have noticed more flaws in 10’s character I don’t like recently such as mistreating Martha, mistreating Wilf, not to mention severe arrogance and vanity. I also noticed that 10 has a lot of the same issues I have with 13, including that they are often both too falsely cheerful to the point where it’s grating. 10 used to be my favorite Doctor, until I watched 12’s era the second time through. I still love certain aspects of his character, such as his hopeless romantic side and his love of humanity, not to mention all the modern classic episodes he has. I guess I just am looking at him less through rose tinted glasses, these days.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Nov 9, 2020 10:03:40 GMT
A few random thoughts / theories that came to me whilst listening to the audiobook of the Resurrection of the Daleks novelisation yesterday.
Saward appears to have ben very influenced by Blakes 7 when writing it. Try to imagine the TV version with Paul Darrow playing Lytton and Michael Keating playing Stein, possibly even Steven Pacey playing Mercer and Glynis Barber playing Styles, and you'll see what I mean. It's very very easy to imagine - almost as if Saward was putting the B7 characters into a Dr Who. Even Davros is rather Servalan-like in his scheming although, since they are both Terry Nation created villains and Davros' MO has already been established in earlier stories, we can't really blame Saward for that one.
One of the major differences between DW and B7 is that DW is essentially optimistic while B7 is cynical and pessimistic. In DW - most of the time - is it fair to say that good, noble heroes can make the world a better place whereas in B7 the world is a grim unpleasant place and any attempt to improve will ultimately fail. Saward is much more suited to the B7 philosophy than the DW philosophy - his stories are full of cynical loners with very few "nice" supporting characters and there is a gloominess in all his novelisations*, even when he is being humourous. Arguably that pessimistic B7 philosophy temporarily takes over DW in seasons 21 and 22. In season 21 DW still had Five's "feckless charm" and charisma to carry the show so they just about get away with it, but with an unpleasant Dr in Season 22 the show well and truly loses its heart and that is the real reason why Six often comes bottom of the best Dr polls.
* Except for the Visitation which IIRC is more of a conventional he said/she said novelisation, although it must be approx. 30 years since I last read it
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Post by timegirl on Nov 26, 2020 1:45:45 GMT
I like Last Christmas a lot more than Husbands of River Song. They both have merits as Christmas episodes but for me Last Christmas is the stronger of the two! The main reason being that I have come to the conclusion that Last Christmas has the greatest ending of any Doctor Who episode ever! It’s truly magical uplifting and romantic! The rest of last Christmas is such a unique blend of ridiculous comedy, mind bending horror, and melancholy heartbreak. Husbands still has great bits in it but the plot isn’t as tight and I found it almost too cruel to have 12 get all romantic with River the very next episode after his and Clara’s tragic goodbyes. I desperately wanted a happy ending for 12 and Clara and Husbands felt too soon.
12 and Clara’s relationship wasn’t toxic, they clearly loved and cared about each other. I see it as being more tragic that two equals who clearly meant the world to each other got separated by circumstances. Yes both of them made (massive) mistakes and weren’t perfect but they were each other’s soul mates and grew as people from their relationship. Of course 12 did what he had to do to bring her back in Hell Bent, it’s what she did for him when she thought he was out of regenerations.
This is going to sound strange but even though I like 13 okay and she looks good in it, I have difficulty even looking at her in 12’s old suit. It’s just feels too morbid and painful to watch her wear my favorite incarnations clothes after a regeneration that felt too much like an actual death.
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Post by grinch on Dec 4, 2020 22:55:25 GMT
I believe that The Ultimate Adventure and it’s sequel Beyond the Ultimate Adventure are absolutely canonical within the Doctor Who universe.
Shocking, I know.
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Post by timegirl on Dec 4, 2020 23:02:48 GMT
12 should have spent 24 years with Clara instead of River.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 14:50:57 GMT
In my opinion (never a good start), Nev Fountain isn't a good writer for Doctor Who. That is to say, his stories aren't for me. His twists in Omega and Peri and the Piscan Paradox are excellent, but you have to wade through a lot of flimsy comedy to get there. I've read (don't ask me where) that his Who work is not unlike that of Douglas Adams - I think it is totally unlike Adams, who has said in interviews that comedy is better when played straight and does not devolve into 'a load of silly voices'. Sadly, Nev's stories devolve into a lot of silly voices to let us know when to laugh.
Sorry about that!
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Post by timegirl on Dec 16, 2020 15:03:03 GMT
I think BF should try to redeem Arabella Weir’s Doctor from Exhile. There was interesting material there with her being this sort of washed up troubled incarnation who was trying to live incognito, they just didn’t handle her Doctor exactly right. Perhaps they could even pair her with the unbound Warner Doctor. The “Exhile” Doctor could be really compelling if they gave her an interesting character arch and got rid of all the vomiting scenes (or at least cut down on them) and either ignore or retcon the bit about her existence being because her previous incarnation killed themselves. BF could really turn around people’s perception of her incarnation in the same way they did for Sixie.
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Post by mark687 on Dec 16, 2020 15:09:00 GMT
I think BF should try to redeem Arabella Weir’s Doctor from Exhile. There was interesting material there with her being this sort of washed up troubled incarnation who was trying to live incognito, they just didn’t handle her Doctor exactly right. Perhaps they could even pair her with the unbound Warner Doctor. The “Exhile” Doctor could be really compelling if they gave her an interesting character arch and got rid of all the vomiting scenes (or at least cut down on them) and either ignore or retcon the bit about her existence being because her previous incarnation killed themselves. BF could really turn around people’s perception of her incarnation in the same way they did for Sixie. Oh No Exile should never have been attempted don't attempt to redeem it LOL Regards mark687
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Post by timegirl on Dec 16, 2020 15:20:02 GMT
I think BF should try to redeem Arabella Weir’s Doctor from Exhile. There was interesting material there with her being this sort of washed up troubled incarnation who was trying to live incognito, they just didn’t handle her Doctor exactly right. Perhaps they could even pair her with the unbound Warner Doctor. The “Exhile” Doctor could be really compelling if they gave her an interesting character arch and got rid of all the vomiting scenes (or at least cut down on them) and either ignore or retcon the bit about her existence being because her previous incarnation killed themselves. BF could really turn around people’s perception of her incarnation in the same way they did for Sixie. Oh No Exile should never have been attempted don't attempt to redeem it LOL Regards mark676 I definitely see where you are coming from but I genuinely think there is interesting material that could be mined from her incarnation. Perhaps they give her a redemptive character arch where she has to learn to be the Doctor again and struggle to become sober. I think she could have as a compelling a character journey as Sixie or 12 if they just handled her character a bit differently and got rid of the gross out humor.
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Post by The Brigadier on Dec 16, 2020 15:24:36 GMT
I think BF should try to redeem Arabella Weir’s Doctor from Exhile. There was interesting material there with her being this sort of washed up troubled incarnation who was trying to live incognito, they just didn’t handle her Doctor exactly right. Perhaps they could even pair her with the unbound Warner Doctor. The “Exhile” Doctor could be really compelling if they gave her an interesting character arch and got rid of all the vomiting scenes (or at least cut down on them) and either ignore or retcon the bit about her existence being because her previous incarnation killed themselves. BF could really turn around people’s perception of her incarnation in the same way they did for Sixie. Some things are best left forgotten....
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Post by timegirl on Dec 16, 2020 15:29:25 GMT
I think BF should try to redeem Arabella Weir’s Doctor from Exhile. There was interesting material there with her being this sort of washed up troubled incarnation who was trying to live incognito, they just didn’t handle her Doctor exactly right. Perhaps they could even pair her with the unbound Warner Doctor. The “Exhile” Doctor could be really compelling if they gave her an interesting character arch and got rid of all the vomiting scenes (or at least cut down on them) and either ignore or retcon the bit about her existence being because her previous incarnation killed themselves. BF could really turn around people’s perception of her incarnation in the same way they did for Sixie. Some things are best left forgotten.... I see where you are coming from but I would be curious to see BF try to redeem her incarnation if nothing else as an experiment. They did work wonders with Sixie after all😉
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Post by timegirl on Dec 17, 2020 2:25:24 GMT
As much as I love Clara, I’m not sure I would ever want a BF spin-off with her traveling in her dinner TARDIS with ME/Ashidir. It just wouldn’t feel right to happen her traveling with anyone other than 12, let alone a character as cold and unlikeable as ME/Ashidir. ME’s actress does a good job playing her but her character is far too cold, self important, and unlikable. This may sound strange but I think I would miss Clara traveling with 12 so much that it would make it too difficult for me to even enjoy it. The only way I could enjoy it is if they give ME/Ashidir a full personality makeover (the complete Sixie treatment). Also if perhaps Clara visited 12 incognito and they fell back in love with each other without him ever knowing her true identity. By the same token, I know this is the popular suggestion for when Capaldi eventually goes to BF, but I really really don’t want a whole bunch of 12 and River boxsets. I have nothing against Alex Kingston, she plays her part very well and she’s a brilliant actress, but to me Husbands of River Song was far too cruel after 12 and Clara had to tragically separate in Hell Bent. 12 and Clara were soul mates and just feels upsetting and wrong to me for 12 and River getting all romantic. I know if this is the case I will still have to listen to all of them because it’s Capaldi and he’s my favorite but I will still have a twinge of discomfort because I desperately wanted a happy ending for 12 and Clara. I wouldn’t mind if they maybe do one or two boxsets but I would want it to be balanced with 12 and Clara content. I know this is stubborn but it doesn’t really feel right to me to have 12 and Clara paired up romantically with anyone but each other. The one exception I have oddly and I am not sure why this is but I kind of like it when Missy flirts with both of them. But ultimately 12 and Clara only feel right to me as romantic partners for each other. The rest of the companions to 12 should only be friends, students, and surrogate children. I really feel there is a lot more to to be mined from 12 and Clara’s relationship especially if BF explores the Beauty and the Beast parallels their relationship has and show more of their journey of trusting each other. Also I would like for once for them to kiss on the lips if they can work that in at some point I think it would be a really heartwarming and triumphant for them as a couple if handled correctly. I even have some ideas myself of how the kiss could believably play out perfectly in character and keeping in their arch. I know it’s silly but I have this fear that BF will mistakenly portray their relationship as father daughter which can’t be further from the nature of their relationship. I think the only reasons people make this mistake is because they are blinded by the age difference between Peter and Jenna and the “No Papa Nicole” comment Peter made before Series 8. First off the age difference issue is silly and secondly he only made those comments to hide the surprise of the revelations of their relationship starting in “Mummy on the Orient Express”. Here’s a link to an interview where Peter says that 12 and Clara have a “truly romantic relationship”: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2sI don’t mind if some BF stories portray 12 and Clara platonically (focus just on the friendship aspect) or ambiguously (sort of in between friendship and romance) but please, please don’t portray them as father and daughter, because that’s not what they are. Sorry to go on with these things but I guess I just really want BF to get things right when the time eventually comes. It is my my favorite era after all! Whatever they do with it when the time eventually comes I will enjoy it overall though because I would be excited to hear Peter as 12 again! Sorry I know I have very specific tastes when it comes to DW but that’s just me😉
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Post by theillusiveman on Dec 17, 2020 5:35:31 GMT
Gareth Roberts should have been the main writer/ show runner For Series 11&12 as his work on the Sarah Jane adventures had more of the doctor who spirit than Torchwood ever did
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Post by timegirl on Dec 17, 2020 14:11:34 GMT
Similar to how we have the animated reconstructions and BF I think it would be amazing if for the surviving past Doctors both Classic and New Who they did original feature length animated movies. I know it would be a gamble but I think it would be something fans would love, it would be a way to get new adventures of past favorite Doctors without having to worry about if they are older, and it would allow for all kinds of creative freedom with what you could do visually that you couldn’t do in live action. If the BBC did try this I think they should start with giving 8 an animated movie, everyone wants more 8 content so it would probably get really good interest. Then if that was a success they could try classic Doctors, perhaps in a multi Doctor movie. This would probably 4,5,6,7 and 8 ( with maybe a few surprise cameos by modern Doctors). Then you could give them modern Doctors their own animated specials! As much as I love 10, his Doctor has had lots of attention recently. Perhaps they could give one of the more underrated modern Doctors the focus like 12 or 9. They could do animated movie for the current Doctor as well and perhaps the fugitive Doctor! The could try all sorts of different animation styles for different DW movies: Disney style hand drawn animation, cgi, stop motion, anime, etc. They could have all different kinds of genres as well like a stop motion horror, action, perhaps even an animated musical ( I would love if they did this one with 12 in particular!). I think even if it was a bit of risk it would be something new and innovative that fans would love!
Side note: I actually got this idea after noticing the the most recent fan art WIP (work in progress) @johannathemad did for me almost looks like 12 and Clara as traditionally animated Disney characters! Which made me think what if we got animated movies for past Doctors!😊
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Post by timegirl on Dec 23, 2020 5:07:50 GMT
This is going to sound strange but sometimes I feel really guilty for not loving every single aspect of Doctor Who. I ‘m not sure why this is but I love DW so much as an entity sometimes I feel bad if I don’t like a story, character, or plot resolution. This is especially the case with my favorite era (12th Doctor) I adore it so much but I feel bad that it upsets me 12 and Clara had to separate and I kind of hate that 12 gets all romantic with River right after. This is really silly but I just get mad even looking at a picture of 12 and River because I feel it should be 12 and Clara instead. I feel like I should love every aspect of his era but I just can’t make myself like those elements! Same goes for DW overall, I almost feel like a traitor if I don’t love everything. I don’t know why this is, does anyone else feel really bad for not loving every aspect of DW?
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Post by theillusiveman on Dec 23, 2020 8:39:33 GMT
This is going to sound strange but sometimes I feel really guilty for not loving every single aspect of Doctor Who. I ‘m not sure why this is but I love DW so much as an entity sometimes I feel bad if I don’t like a story, character, or plot resolution. This is especially the case with my favorite era (12th Doctor) I adore it so much but I feel bad that it upsets me 12 and Clara had to separate and I kind of hate that 12 gets all romantic with River right after. This is really silly but I just get mad even looking at a picture of 12 and River because I feel it should be 12 and Clara instead. I feel like I should love every aspect of his era but I just can’t make myself like those elements! Same goes for DW overall, I almost feel like a traitor if I don’t love everything. I don’t know why this is, does anyone else feel really bad for not loving every aspect of DW? Why should you feel guilty for not blindly liking everything about Doctor Who? you shouldn't feel remotely guilty at all at parts of it you dislike or hate or find critical
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 8:41:04 GMT
This is going to sound strange but sometimes I feel really guilty for not loving every single aspect of Doctor Who. I ‘m not sure why this is but I love DW so much as an entity sometimes I feel bad if I don’t like a story, character, or plot resolution. This is especially the case with my favorite era (12th Doctor) I adore it so much but I feel bad that it upsets me 12 and Clara had to separate and I kind of hate that 12 gets all romantic with River right after. This is really silly but I just get mad even looking at a picture of 12 and River because I feel it should be 12 and Clara instead. I feel like I should love every aspect of his era but I just can’t make myself like those elements! Same goes for DW overall, I almost feel like a traitor if I don’t love everything. I don’t know why this is, does anyone else feel really bad for not loving every aspect of DW? In perfect truth? It's okay. Doctor Who is a massive hotchpotch of genres, ranging from action, historical fiction, romance, gothic, thrillers, crime, mystery, spy-fi, space operas, comedies, tragedies, westerns, satire, human interest stories, travelogues, urban fantasy, etc. There are going to be elements in there that are more interesting than others. Not because there's nothing to like about the other facets -- often quite the opposite -- but simply because (current) personal preferences lie elsewhere. I'm having a lot of trouble choosing for the "criticise/praise your least/favourite most era" thread precisely because of that, actually. Best/worst individual stories? I can do that. Best/worst tenures? That's much more difficult. There's enough to like in so many of those eras, one way or another, that I just can't qualify it off the top of my head. Not for a lack of critique, per se, but more from the fact that the rough edges don't cut far enough into the show's virtues for it to really matter. The good tends to outshine the bad. Particularly in hindsight. So, it's fine, there's no obligation there. In either case, the things that bother you now tend, more likely than not, to soften over time. That's usually to be how these sort of things turn out.
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Post by timegirl on Dec 23, 2020 12:58:51 GMT
This is going to sound strange but sometimes I feel really guilty for not loving every single aspect of Doctor Who. I ‘m not sure why this is but I love DW so much as an entity sometimes I feel bad if I don’t like a story, character, or plot resolution. This is especially the case with my favorite era (12th Doctor) I adore it so much but I feel bad that it upsets me 12 and Clara had to separate and I kind of hate that 12 gets all romantic with River right after. This is really silly but I just get mad even looking at a picture of 12 and River because I feel it should be 12 and Clara instead. I feel like I should love every aspect of his era but I just can’t make myself like those elements! Same goes for DW overall, I almost feel like a traitor if I don’t love everything. I don’t know why this is, does anyone else feel really bad for not loving every aspect of DW? Why should you feel guilty for not blindly liking everything about Doctor Who? you shouldn't feel remotely guilty at all at parts of it you dislike or hate or find critical
Thanks, I guess I just want to be a kind fan and I sometimes feel bad because I tend to speak up if I don’t like something as much as I would if love something in DW. Also elsewhere on the internet a bunch of people got mad at me simply because I was honest and said I don’t like River with 12 and prefer him with Clara. I didn’t say they could not like 12 and River but they were unnecessarily irritated at me for voicing my opinion. The more I think about it though I should voice my opinions because those are what I truly think and that instance was with the people who cyber bullied me for having too many different ideas than them.
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Post by timegirl on Dec 23, 2020 13:02:38 GMT
This is going to sound strange but sometimes I feel really guilty for not loving every single aspect of Doctor Who. I ‘m not sure why this is but I love DW so much as an entity sometimes I feel bad if I don’t like a story, character, or plot resolution. This is especially the case with my favorite era (12th Doctor) I adore it so much but I feel bad that it upsets me 12 and Clara had to separate and I kind of hate that 12 gets all romantic with River right after. This is really silly but I just get mad even looking at a picture of 12 and River because I feel it should be 12 and Clara instead. I feel like I should love every aspect of his era but I just can’t make myself like those elements! Same goes for DW overall, I almost feel like a traitor if I don’t love everything. I don’t know why this is, does anyone else feel really bad for not loving every aspect of DW? In perfect truth? It's okay. Doctor Who is a massive hotchpotch of genres, ranging from action, historical fiction, romance, gothic, thrillers, crime, mystery, spy-fi, space operas, comedies, tragedies, westerns, satire, human interest stories, travelogues, urban fantasy, etc. There are going to be elements in there that are more interesting than others. Not because there's nothing to like about the other facets -- often quite the opposite -- but simply because (current) personal preferences lie elsewhere. I'm having a lot of trouble choosing for the "criticise/praise your least/favourite most era" thread precisely because of that, actually. Best/worst individual stories? I can do that. Best/worst tenures? That's much more difficult. There's enough to like in so many of those eras, one way or another, that I just can't qualify it off the top of my head. Not for a lack of critique, per se, but more from the fact that the rough edges don't cut far enough into the show's virtues for it to really matter. The good tends to outshine the bad. Particularly in hindsight. So, it's fine, there's no obligation there. In either case, the things that bother you now tend, more likely than not, to soften over time. That's usually to be how these sort of things turn out. This made me feel better 😊 no worries about the other thread, if you come up with something that’s great if not don’t worry about it 😊
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