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Post by timegirl on Dec 26, 2020 15:51:06 GMT
I’ve been thinking recently about why exactly I prefer Clara over River as a love interest for 12. Before I get to far into this I would like to say as a disclaimer though that I think both Jenna Coleman and Alex Kingston are both very talented actors and I am sure very lovely people this is just my opinion of the characters they play.
Admittedly there is a slight overlap between the two personality wise, they are both somewhat sassy adventurous women who aren’t quite a normal human who were put in the path of the Doctor by villainous women ( Madam Kavorkia, Missy). However Clara feels more like a real person than River. Clara is a school teacher, is deeply flawed and has everyday struggles in the real world and most importantly her relationship with the Doctor feels more like a real relationship than the one with River. River doesn’t feel as real to me with her constant double entendres and “Hello sweeties” and overbearing fem fatal shtick. With Clara you really feel the progression and struggles between her the Doctor (11and especially 12). Their relationship isn’t all “hello sweeties”. Yes Missy put the Doctor and Clara together but she didn’t force them to fall in love. River on the other hand was basically groomed from childhood to become obsessed with the Doctor. To me the relationship between River and the Doctor feels more fake and forced. Where with 12 and Clara, sacrificed everything for each other. Clara died multiple times to save the Doctor and the Doctor died repeatedly over a billion years for her. To me 12 should have had his happy ending with Clara rather than River. 12 and Clara having their happy ending and spending 24 years (or more) together would have felt far more satisfying after how far they came in their relationship and the absolute hell they went for each other.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 11:37:16 GMT
I think Orphan 55 is great!
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Post by timegirl on Jan 3, 2021 15:21:18 GMT
I think Orphan 55 is great! I don’t think it’s amazing, but I will agree with you it’s not as bad as people say!
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Post by timegirl on Jan 5, 2021 22:14:55 GMT
I’m not too upset if the rumors of Jodie leaving after next series are true. I feel bad for people for whom she was their favorite Doctor, because I know it’s hard when your Doctor goes you feel like you are loosing a friend. I will feel bad if she doesn’t get at least one big showcase episode next series. Every Doctor deserves at least one of those, and so far she hasn’t had one yet. I like aspects of her Doctor and I am sure Jodie is a lovely person, but to me I feel like 13 didn’t really come across as a living breathing person the way other incarnations do. 13’s a pleasant incarnation but I feel like I don’t really feel the depth and heartbreak that say 12 has. I’m still mourning 12’s departure but to be honest I probably won’t for 13. I think 13 will probably be a better incarnation once BF eventually gets ahold of Jodie and gives her the full Sixie treatment. I hope 13 has a good last series and goes out on a high note though! I hope 14 is Jo Martin or someone equally amazing!🤞
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Post by timegirl on Jan 27, 2021 20:09:41 GMT
I don’t think I will watch the 60th anniversary special if 12 isn’t in it, I would be too sad😔
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jan 27, 2021 21:00:37 GMT
I don’t think I will watch the 60th anniversary special if 12 isn’t in it, I would be too sad😔 I won't watch it if 13 isn't in it.
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Post by timegirl on Jan 27, 2021 21:03:15 GMT
I don’t think I will watch the 60th anniversary special if 12 isn’t in it, I would be too sad😔 I won't watch it if 13 isn't in it. That’s understandable, it’s really hard loosing your favorite Doctor. Hopefully they will both do BF, and we get someone really good as 14 like Jo Martin🤞
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jan 27, 2021 21:04:08 GMT
I won't watch it if 13 isn't in it. That’s understandable, it’s really hard loosing your favorite Doctor. Hopefully they will both do BF, and we get someone really good as 14 like Jo Martin🤞 In a related point. If the 14th doctor is a man I won't watch.
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Post by timegirl on Jan 27, 2021 21:25:57 GMT
That’s understandable, it’s really hard loosing your favorite Doctor. Hopefully they will both do BF, and we get someone really good as 14 like Jo Martin🤞 In a related point. If the 14th doctor is a man I won't watch. I have a feeling it will be another female Doctor, it would make sense to do at least a few female Doctors in a row before going back to a male incarnation. I know where you are coming from but personally I’m not bothered by what 14’s gender is, so as long as they are good in the part.
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Post by theillusiveman on Jan 27, 2021 23:15:28 GMT
That’s understandable, it’s really hard loosing your favorite Doctor. Hopefully they will both do BF, and we get someone really good as 14 like Jo Martin🤞 In a related point. If the 14th doctor is a man I won't watch. Why wouldn’t you watch it?
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Post by timegirl on Jan 27, 2021 23:56:10 GMT
If one day Capaldi and Coleman do BF, 12 and Clara need to kiss at least once. Also 12 should definitely start singing as part of his rock star persona, Capaldi has a really good singing voice and there is so much that could done with it! I even have ideas how they could combine both of these into one story! Side note: Peter did say 12 and Clara have a truly romantic relationship: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2s
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 10:43:43 GMT
That’s understandable, it’s really hard loosing your favorite Doctor. Hopefully they will both do BF, and we get someone really good as 14 like Jo Martin🤞 In a related point. If the 14th doctor is a man I won't watch. That's exactly the kind of viewpoint you berated fans for when a female Doctor was announced.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 11:10:31 GMT
If one day Capaldi and Coleman do BF, 12 and Clara need to kiss at least once. Also 12 should definitely start singing as part of his rock star persona, Capaldi has a really good singing voice and there is so much that could done with it! I even have ideas how they could combine both of these into one story! Side note: Peter did say 12 and Clara have a truly romantic relationship: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2sI love that you love the Capaldi/Coleman relationship so much! I adore them both too (we've discussed this before), and the Twelfth Doctor and Clara definitely had more going on between them than just 'companion/Doctor', which is often fascinating to watch. The only time I think their complex relationship became too much to believe was when she was ready to kill The Doctor if he didn't go back in time to save Mr Pink. Although it did give rise to the Doctor's magnificent "Do you think I care for you so little that betrayal would make a difference?" line.
Their relationship could be explored further with BF if both actors agreed to do more - but would we want it all explained away, or left as it is,a fascinating enigma? A difficult one to answer, I think.
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Post by theillusiveman on Jan 28, 2021 12:02:12 GMT
In a related point. If the 14th doctor is a man I won't watch. That's exactly the kind of viewpoint you berated fans for when a female Doctor was announced. Ironic isnt it
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Post by timegirl on Jan 28, 2021 12:38:26 GMT
If one day Capaldi and Coleman do BF, 12 and Clara need to kiss at least once. Also 12 should definitely start singing as part of his rock star persona, Capaldi has a really good singing voice and there is so much that could done with it! I even have ideas how they could combine both of these into one story! Side note: Peter did say 12 and Clara have a truly romantic relationship: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2sI love that you love the Capaldi/Coleman relationship so much! I adore them both too (we've discussed this before), and the Twelfth Doctor and Clara definitely had more going on between them than just 'companion/Doctor', which is often fascinating to watch. The only time I think their complex relationship became too much to believe was when she was ready to kill The Doctor if he didn't go back in time to save Mr Pink. Although it did give rise to the Doctor's magnificent "Do you think I care for you so little that betrayal would make a difference?" line.
Their relationship could be explored further with BF if both actors agreed to do more - but would we want it all explained away, or left as it is,a fascinating enigma? A difficult one to answer, I think.
I think it could work if they explored different aspects of their relationship, while still keeping some aspects a mystery. I really would like to see more of their romance though😊
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 14:25:41 GMT
I love that you love the Capaldi/Coleman relationship so much! I adore them both too (we've discussed this before), and the Twelfth Doctor and Clara definitely had more going on between them than just 'companion/Doctor', which is often fascinating to watch. The only time I think their complex relationship became too much to believe was when she was ready to kill The Doctor if he didn't go back in time to save Mr Pink. Although it did give rise to the Doctor's magnificent "Do you think I care for you so little that betrayal would make a difference?" line.
Their relationship could be explored further with BF if both actors agreed to do more - but would we want it all explained away, or left as it is,a fascinating enigma? A difficult one to answer, I think.
I think it could work if they explored different aspects of their relationship, while still keeping some aspects a mystery. I really would like to see more of their romance though😊 So would I. I had my issues with Clara, if I'm honest, but as written, she had more of a profound effect on the Doctor's lives than just about anyone - and she was closer to Number 12 than she was to anyone of the other incarnations (which is why I found it so hard to accept she would feel the need to blackmail him over Danny Pink). That is definitely worthy of further BF exploration!
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Post by timegirl on Jan 28, 2021 14:57:10 GMT
I think it could work if they explored different aspects of their relationship, while still keeping some aspects a mystery. I really would like to see more of their romance though😊 So would I. I had my issues with Clara, if I'm honest, but as written, she had more of a profound effect on the Doctor's lives than just about anyone - and she was closer to Number 12 than she was to anyone of the other incarnations (which is why I found it so hard to accept she would feel the need to blackmail him over Danny Pink). That is definitely worthy of further BF exploration! I would love for bf to explore all the little progressions of 12 and Clara’s relationship. I think they should do a few two handers, stories where it’s just 12 and Clara so we can really zero in on their relationship. I also think there is a lot more to explore with 12’s complex relationship to physical touch and the impact Clara had to make him feel more comfortable with it. I also think there could be more scenarios that could test their relationship that would be interesting. Although 11 briefly met Clara’s Dad and grandmother, it would be interesting to see 12 interact with them and see how her family would react to Clara’s relationship with 12. I think they should explore 12’s midlife crisis more during his relationship with Clara. What does a midlife crisis look like to someone like the Doctor? Also there is no reason why in DW 12 and Clara’s age difference couldn’t temporarily disappear 😉 Another thing worth exploring is that 12 started expressing himself more creatively by playing the guitar after his relationship with Clara became stronger around series 9. Clara is most definitely 12’s muse, considering he wrote Clara’s theme for her. I definitely think that aspect of their relationship could be expanded on. Did she inspire him to write any other songs? I think it could be interesting to show 12 writing songs inspired by their relationship and adventures. Also it would be interesting to see more of the ways 12 and Clara become more alike. There is a lot of good and bad that could come from that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 20:59:20 GMT
So would I. I had my issues with Clara, if I'm honest, but as written, she had more of a profound effect on the Doctor's lives than just about anyone - and she was closer to Number 12 than she was to anyone of the other incarnations (which is why I found it so hard to accept she would feel the need to blackmail him over Danny Pink). That is definitely worthy of further BF exploration! I would love for bf to explore all the little progressions of 12 and Clara’s relationship. I think they should do a few two handers, stories where it’s just 12 and Clara so we can really zero in on their relationship. I also think there is a lot more to explore with 12’s complex relationship to physical touch and the impact Clara had to make him feel more comfortable with it. I also think there could be more scenarios that could test their relationship that would be interesting. Although 11 briefly met Clara’s Dad and grandmother, it would be interesting to see 12 interact with them and see how her family would react to Clara’s relationship with 12. I think they should explore 12’s midlife crisis more during his relationship with Clara. What does a midlife crisis look like to someone like the Doctor? Also there is no reason why in DW 12 and Clara’s age difference couldn’t temporarily disappear 😉 Another thing worth exploring is that 12 started expressing himself more creatively by playing the guitar after his relationship with Clara became stronger around series 9. Clara is most definitely 12’s muse, considering he wrote Clara’s theme for her. I definitely think that aspect of their relationship could be expanded on. Did she inspire him to write any other songs? I think it could be interesting to show 12 writing songs inspired by their relationship and adventures. Also it would be interesting to see more of the ways 12 and Clara become more alike. There is a lot of good and bad that could come from that. I wrote a lovely long reply to this, moaning about the fact that we never heard more from Clara's father Brian, played by Mark Williams. I couldn't work out why he didn't appear with Peter Capaldi. Then I remembered that Brian was Rory's dad, not Clara's! Ah well
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Post by timegirl on Jan 28, 2021 21:06:49 GMT
I would love for bf to explore all the little progressions of 12 and Clara’s relationship. I think they should do a few two handers, stories where it’s just 12 and Clara so we can really zero in on their relationship. I also think there is a lot more to explore with 12’s complex relationship to physical touch and the impact Clara had to make him feel more comfortable with it. I also think there could be more scenarios that could test their relationship that would be interesting. Although 11 briefly met Clara’s Dad and grandmother, it would be interesting to see 12 interact with them and see how her family would react to Clara’s relationship with 12. I think they should explore 12’s midlife crisis more during his relationship with Clara. What does a midlife crisis look like to someone like the Doctor? Also there is no reason why in DW 12 and Clara’s age difference couldn’t temporarily disappear 😉 Another thing worth exploring is that 12 started expressing himself more creatively by playing the guitar after his relationship with Clara became stronger around series 9. Clara is most definitely 12’s muse, considering he wrote Clara’s theme for her. I definitely think that aspect of their relationship could be expanded on. Did she inspire him to write any other songs? I think it could be interesting to show 12 writing songs inspired by their relationship and adventures. Also it would be interesting to see more of the ways 12 and Clara become more alike. There is a lot of good and bad that could come from that. I wrote a lovely long reply to this, moaning about the fact that we never heard more from Clara's father Brian, played by Mark Williams. I couldn't work out why he didn't appear with Peter Capaldi. Then I remembered that Brian was Rory's dad, not Clara's! Ah well It’s the thought that counts!😉
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Post by Superium on Jan 28, 2021 21:22:09 GMT
There are more duds in Smith's era than there are in the 60s and 70s combined.
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