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Post by Hieronymus on Apr 20, 2016 2:33:14 GMT
The Valeyard was distilled from all the refuse biomatter that Capaldi's Doctor generated over the millenia while digging through that diamond wall.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 6:01:02 GMT
The "Clara, I'm not your boyfriend," angle really does come straight out of nowhere. So much so, that I am very tempted to believe that the writers were trying to speak to a particular demographic in the audience through Vastra to Clara. It's like a conversation between a longtime fan of the show and a shipper of Eleven/Clara. I remember sitting in the cinema and thinking: "Okay... You're not talking to me and you're not really talking to Clara, who are you talking to?" Yeah, that was just weird. Like, when did Clara ever think the Doctor was her boyfriend? Not in anything I've read, seen or heard... Clara's characterisation as a whole kind of came out of left field for Deep Breath really. I liked it and it really gave the main antagonist some much needed gravitas, but there really wasn't any kind of precedent for it from what we'd seen before or since then. I'm at a loss to explain it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 6:13:02 GMT
The "Clara, I'm not your boyfriend," angle really does come straight out of nowhere. So much so, that I am very tempted to believe that the writers were trying to speak to a particular demographic in the audience through Vastra to Clara. It's like a conversation between a longtime fan of the show and a shipper of Eleven/Clara. I remember sitting in the cinema and thinking: "Okay... You're not talking to me and you're not really talking to Clara, who are you talking to?" Yeah, that was just weird. Like, when did Clara ever think the Doctor was her boyfriend? Well in Time of the Doctor she introduced him to her family as her boyfriend, so I just took it as a call back to that.
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Post by Whovitt on Apr 20, 2016 7:52:01 GMT
My biggest issue with Clara in Deep Breath is the fact that she reacted badly to the Doctor's regeneration in the first place. Only three stories ago did she step into his time stream, see all his different faces, PRESUMABLY IN THE ORDER! Even if she hadn't, she would know that he can regenerate into a man of any age, she's 'seen' it a dozen times, so why the problem now? Because this was specifically her Doctor? (Incidently, she mentions to the Doctor in Day of the Doctor that she'd seen all his faces, so there can't be an issue of whether she remembers being in his time stream or not) (I might post some of my own theories/other opinions at some point, but I'll probably need a few posts to complete the list of controvestials )
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 20, 2016 8:28:39 GMT
I really hate the family aspect in NuWho. Rose, Martha, Mickey, Donna, Amy, Rory and Clara all had family and partners whilst travelling in TARDIS. I always felt that a companion joined the Doctor to get away from family and friends. It doesn't help that every companion is from present day (the cheapest stories to film). Going back to see family and partners intruded on the main plot.
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Post by Ela on Apr 20, 2016 13:14:50 GMT
Yeah, that was just weird. Like, when did Clara ever think the Doctor was her boyfriend? Well in Time of the Doctor she introduced him to her family as her boyfriend, so I just took it as a call back to that. Yeah, but in that story it was clearly not because she thought the Doctor was her boyfriend but because she had to produce a supposed "boyfriend" to show her family.
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Post by Ela on Apr 20, 2016 13:24:02 GMT
I really hate the family aspect in NuWho. Rose, Martha, Mickey, Donna, Amy, Rory and Clara all had family and partners whilst travelling in TARDIS. I always felt that a companion joined the Doctor to get away from family and friends. It doesn't help that every companion is from present day (the cheapest stories to film). Going back to see family and partners intruded on the main plot. I never thought that a companion joined the Doctor to get away from family and friends. Maybe in a couple cases but not in most. Let's look at a couple, just at random, not in any particular order: - Barbara and Ian ended up traveling with the Doctor by accident, and clearly wanted to go back to their own time and place. - Steven was stranded on a planet with no family and friends and stowed away, basically, I think, to get away from a place where there was nothing for him. - Vicki was abandoned on a strange planet and had no family and friends to go back to, so the Doctor took her with. - Ben and Polly ended up traveling with the Doctor by accident and did want to go home eventually. - Victoria was also, in a sense, abandoned, had no family left, and the Doctor had promised to take care of her. - Sarah Jane was just in a particular place and time when the Doctor showed up and ended up working with him. I never recall that she expressed a desire to get away from family and friends. I could go on, but this isn't meant to be an exhaustive list.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 21:43:56 GMT
I really hate the family aspect in NuWho. Rose, Martha, Mickey, Donna, Amy, Rory and Clara all had family and partners whilst travelling in TARDIS. I always felt that a companion joined the Doctor to get away from family and friends. It doesn't help that every companion is from present day (the cheapest stories to film). Going back to see family and partners intruded on the main plot. I never thought that a companion joined the Doctor to get away from family and friends. Maybe in a couple cases but not in most. Let's look at a couple, just at random, not in any particular order: - Barbara and Ian ended up traveling with the Doctor by accident, and clearly wanted to go back to their own time and place. - Steven was stranded on a planet with no family and friends and stowed away, basically, I think, to get away from a place where there was nothing for him. - Vicki was abandoned on a strange planet and had no family and friends to go back to, so the Doctor took her with. - Ben and Polly ended up traveling with the Doctor by accident and did want to go home eventually. - Victoria was also, in a sense, abandoned, had no family left, and the Doctor had promised to take care of her. - Sarah Jane was just in a particular place and time when the Doctor showed up and ended up working with him. I never recall that she expressed a desire to get away from family and friends. I could go on, but this isn't meant to be an exhaustive list. Victoria falls under a fairly rare category for companions in that her close family was annihilated through her initial encounter with the Doctor. Sara's brother Brett and Adric's brother Vash suffered similar unfortunate fates to Edward Waterfield. Even those travelling in the TARDIS weren't immune to later tragedy as The Reaping demonstrated for Peri. It's a funny little clash with what we later see in Mindwarp actually, she's homesick but has no home to go back to. Ooh, here's something controversial. I was very resistant to the post-Trial Doctor/Peri stories because I definitively believed that our Peri died on Thoros Beta and that was a key defining moment of the Sixth Doctor's later personality. She his best friend who stayed with him during the worst aspects of his life and he failed her. He didn't listen and he got her killed. That and his fear of what the Valeyard represented were ultimately what caused him to reform his character. The sheer quality of The Widow's Assassin and the later implication that the one thing Peri wanted in the whole world, she can now no longer be given because of him, were what sold the idea of post-Thoros Beta stories for me. They're going to have to really earn that friendship back.
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Post by Ela on Apr 20, 2016 22:27:20 GMT
Ooh, here's something controversial. I was very resistant to the post-Trial Doctor/Peri stories because I definitively believed that our Peri died on Thoros Beta and that was a key defining moment of the Sixth Doctor's later personality. She his best friend who stayed with him during the worst aspects of his life and he failed her. He didn't listen and he got her killed. That and his fear of what the Valeyard represented were ultimately what caused him to reform his character. The sheer quality of The Widow's Assassin and the later implication that the one thing Peri wanted in the whole world, she can now no longer be given because of him, were what sold the idea of post-Thoros Beta stories for me. They're going to have to really earn that friendship back. I think Nicola Bryant wanted Peri to die on Thoros Beta, too, from what I've read. Not that she wanted to stop playing Peri, mind you, but I've heard she liked the way that episode ended and wasn't crazy about the later edit. I haven't listened to The Widow's Assassin yet (I've gotten distracted from my MR listening by other releases. ) but there are some other post-Thoros Beta stories that made post-Thoros Beta Peri work for me.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 20, 2016 22:51:45 GMT
I probably should have rephrased it to "Getting away from where they were" To leave any troubles behind. Every NuWho companions returned many times to where/when they started from.
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Post by Ela on Apr 20, 2016 22:52:49 GMT
I probably should have rephrased it to "Getting away from where they were" Well, that would be more true, but still not true in all cases.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 23:35:03 GMT
Ooh, here's something controversial. I was very resistant to the post-Trial Doctor/Peri stories because I definitively believed that our Peri died on Thoros Beta and that was a key defining moment of the Sixth Doctor's later personality. She his best friend who stayed with him during the worst aspects of his life and he failed her. He didn't listen and he got her killed. That and his fear of what the Valeyard represented were ultimately what caused him to reform his character. The sheer quality of The Widow's Assassin and the later implication that the one thing Peri wanted in the whole world, she can now no longer be given because of him, were what sold the idea of post-Thoros Beta stories for me. They're going to have to really earn that friendship back. I think Nicola Bryant wanted Peri to die on Thoros Beta, too, from what I've read. Not that she wanted to stop playing Peri, mind you, but I've heard she liked the way that episode ended and wasn't crazy about the later edit. I haven't listened to The Widow's Assassin yet (I've gotten distracted from my MR listening by other releases. ) but there are some other post-Thoros Beta stories that made post-Thoros Beta Peri work for me. Good enough reason as any. There's a little special feature at the end of the Trial of a Time Lord boxset where you hear Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant react to the revelation that Peri was alive. Nicola's response was a laugh and the words: " Oh, dear..." Colin felt responsible for the addition because he asked the production crew what had really happened on Thoros Beta and by doing so he'd accidentally robbed her of a really dramatic conclusion. Steve Lyons had the Doctor's mind wiped in Time of Your Life and Killing Ground so he could write about a Doctor who knew in the vaguest of senses that something awful had happened to Peri. They're an interesting set of books actually, they deal with a depressed Sixy in mourning, who feels as though he's failed in his calling and doesn't belong in the wider universe anymore. In the first novel, becomes a hermit on a backwater planet and in the following book even contemplates suicide to make sure nobody else dies because of him. It's a neat little bridge between the Sixth Doctor we know and love and the one we saw on television (who we may also know and love).
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Post by Ela on Apr 20, 2016 23:42:54 GMT
There's a little special feature at the end of the Trial of a Time Lord boxset where you hear Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant react to the revelation that Peri was alive. Nicola's response was a laugh and the words: " Oh, dear..." Colin felt responsible for the addition because he asked the production crew what had really happened on Thoros Beta and by doing so he'd accidentally robbed her of a really dramatic conclusion. Ooh, I acquired that box set, but haven't listened to it yet. Something to look forward to. I heard the end was changed because fans complained about a companion being killed off, though. Steve Lyons had the Doctor's mind wiped in Time of Your Life and Killing Ground so he could write about a Doctor who knew in the vaguest of senses that something awful had happened to Peri. They're an interesting set of books actually, they deal with a depressed Sixy in mourning, who feels as though he's failed in his calling and doesn't belong in the wider universe anymore. In the first novel, becomes a hermit on a backwater planet and in the following book even contemplates suicide to make sure nobody else dies because of him. It's a neat little bridge between the Sixth Doctor we know and love and the one we saw on television (who we may also know and love). Interesting. I may try to get a hold of those books.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Apr 21, 2016 9:42:11 GMT
That's not possible - the 'resurrection' scene in question would have been recorded before the fans knew anything about Peri's death.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Apr 21, 2016 10:37:22 GMT
I really hate the family aspect in NuWho. Rose, Martha, Mickey, Donna, Amy, Rory and Clara all had family and partners whilst travelling in TARDIS. I always felt that a companion joined the Doctor to get away from family and friends. It doesn't help that every companion is from present day (the cheapest stories to film). Going back to see family and partners intruded on the main plot. I do understand where you are coming from (at points in the RTD era it felt more like Eastenders in Space than Doctor Who) but I have the opposite problem with Classic Who, we know next to nothing about most the companions history and families, and it seems kinda hard to believe they could dissapear for months or years at a time without their families noticing...
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Post by Ela on Apr 21, 2016 14:38:25 GMT
That's not possible - the 'resurrection' scene in question would have been recorded before the fans knew anything about Peri's death. Fair enough. But I thought I read somewhere that "someone" was upset about Peri's having been killed off. So maybe it was someone involved in the production of the series. It's hard to keep up with all the stories and rumors.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Apr 21, 2016 14:44:12 GMT
I think you're just mangling the story about Colin raising it as "Does that mean Peri isn't dead then?" when they started revealing that evidence was faked.
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Post by Ela on Apr 21, 2016 14:47:02 GMT
Nope, not a bit of it.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Apr 21, 2016 15:10:34 GMT
Honestly can't think of any story about anyone being upset. Nicola was upset they went back on it.
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Post by Ela on Apr 21, 2016 15:39:21 GMT
Yes, I know that Nicola was upset. If I figure out where I heard it I'll let you know.
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