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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2021 3:22:32 GMT
No, no - not at all - debate is debate and always good to see where others are coming from It's the people who don't want to say "That's interesting...but how about..." that aren't worth the time. Good, friendly debate is something I really enjoy. Again, we can all see things as different and that's good - keeps things interesting. Though in the context of that Last Christmas, the man she wanted to marry who is impossible is surely supposed to be Danny? He's literally her dream man there, and being dead he's obviously "impossible" to marry. If Moffat didn't intend it to be Danny, it'd be very odd to even cast Samuel again in the role. Though clearly, like the tangerine at the end...Moffat's happy for us to have a bit of fun wondering and speculating more than usual in that episode so maybe there was an extra layer there. One of the things I like about the Moffat/Capaldi era is that things can be left a bit more meta. I think of Robin Hood telling The Doctor "I'm as real as you are.." for example. It's like Moffat is kinda challenging the audience there, saying "It's all made up anyway - just have fun", and you do that with your own reading of the era. I just would hate to think that should BF ever get them on board (or even in Short Trips or Chronicles) you end up getting more let down because of your own expectations about some very specific things. I'd be sad to think you would have such a pre-conceived notion of what should and shouldn't be in their relationship that it's hard to see the wood for the trees and feel let down. Capaldi's my favourite Doctor too - by far. He's someone I was advocating for the role in the early 2000s when the show was coming back. It was a dream for me when he was announced and an even more exciting one when he was, unlike Tennant, allowed to keep his accent in the role as a working class Glasgow boy as The Doctor? Well, I wouldn't have believed it when I got into the show in the early 90s sitting as a working class Glasgow boy myself. Yet I'm open to expanding any era, with any Doctor when it comes to licenced media - BF, books, comics...it's something that makes their world bigger even if it's not a direction I'd have thought about myself. I would never have thought the show's most serious era overall - the Third Doctor one - would end up with some of the most fun stories ever with the likes of The Scorchies on audio or Verdigris in the books. Sometimes you get things you didn't know you wanted. And that can be exciting, sometimes more so, than what you expected to get. I feel better now š And since you are up for debate, it wasnāt Danny she was talking about in āLast Christmasā as āone other man but he was impossibleā because the implication was that Clara was saying that there was one man she would marry other than Danny. The reference to the man being āimpossibleā is Claraās way of saying she would love to marry 12 but itās difficult because she is human with a limited life span and he is an immortal alien. Itās also a reference to how the Doctor referred to her as his āImpossible Girlā. So basically Clara would only ever marry Danny or 12 and you are forgetting that Clara kissed 12 on the cheek with the shape of a heart in the backgroundš Well if I donāt want to be disappointed if and when they come on board at BF. I will just have to try to get hired as a writer for BF and write stories for 12 and Clara that show more of the romantic undertones. Maybe I would be able to convince more fans of their love š¤š I take it back...that opinion stuff all makes you a horrible person! Well - I'll make you a deal. You take over BF (it shouldn't be hard, the higher ups are all nearing retirement age, amazingly!) and I'll buy your stories. But if I give them bad reviews....don't pull me up on Twitter like the current boss!!!
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Post by timegirl on May 16, 2021 3:29:00 GMT
I feel better now š And since you are up for debate, it wasnāt Danny she was talking about in āLast Christmasā as āone other man but he was impossibleā because the implication was that Clara was saying that there was one man she would marry other than Danny. The reference to the man being āimpossibleā is Claraās way of saying she would love to marry 12 but itās difficult because she is human with a limited life span and he is an immortal alien. Itās also a reference to how the Doctor referred to her as his āImpossible Girlā. So basically Clara would only ever marry Danny or 12 and you are forgetting that Clara kissed 12 on the cheek with the shape of a heart in the backgroundš Well if I donāt want to be disappointed if and when they come on board at BF. I will just have to try to get hired as a writer for BF and write stories for 12 and Clara that show more of the romantic undertones. Maybe I would be able to convince more fans of their love š¤š I take it back...that opinion stuff all makes you a horrible person! Well - I'll make you a deal. You take over BF (it shouldn't be hard, the higher ups are all nearing retirement age, amazingly!) and I'll buy your stories. But if I give them bad reviews....don't pull me up on Twitter like the current boss!!! Itās a dealš
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Post by grinch on May 16, 2021 10:24:53 GMT
They could just retcon and say that Martha married Tom Ellis's Character from Last of The Time Lords (which she was engaged to as referenced in The Doctor's Daughter) but Hell No to the idea of Ashildr coming back as she was just a bland boring character in one of Capaldis worst seasons.
Regarding the female lead Torchwood really? haven't we already got enough female lead spin offs given that the doctor who franchise already has heaps of female lead spin offs- K9 and Company, The Sarah Jane Adventures, Class and all the Big Finish Spin offs such as: Missy, UNIT, The Paternoster Gang, Class (agian), Rose Tyler Dimension Cannon, Jenny The Doctors Daughter, Lady Chrisitina, The Year of Martha Jones, The Robots, Donna Knoble Kidnapped, Charley Pollard, Bernice Summerfield, Graceless and Vienna
The ranges could be all female led and I'd be happy if they all have a reason to exist beyond "we can get that actor" and they all have unique identities. I really don't dig when I hear a Jenny story that could easily be a Vienna, or a River that you can change some names and make a River out of.Ā Sometimes I hear stories from the expanded spinoffs that almost feel like the skeleton was written without a real idea what range it was for. That's not how commissions work, of course, but it perhaps speaks to how same-y some of the ranges are and some of the leads are too. Luckily actors like Alex Kingston or Lisa Bowerman know their characters so well that they inject character into stories that helps make them *feel* different even if the bullet points of the script aren't. It's perhaps another reason I didn't take to Nova in Eccleston's new set very well - she's another feisty inquisitive Who companion taking an awful lot in her stride. Seen dozens and dozens just like her on TV, in books, comics, audios. I feel like we could use some totally fresh companions, different to what we have already in spades. The classic Doctors moving to boxsets seems like an ideal time to do that to me. Freshen things up a bit. It's amazing how new companions can (not always but often) invigorate The Doctor and the actor playing them. Ashildir to me was a very clever, if cynical, bit of casting. Maisie was at the height of her popularity in Game Of Thrones and I don't think having her first story in a village not unlike something from GoT was a coincidence. I didn't take to her in the second story much at all and when she's at the end of the Universe, I was mostly sitting thinking "Does Steven Moffat actually know what the hybrid is himself?" so I wasn't too fussed about her there. Given she got a novel of short stories announced and released at the time, I think it's clear there were hopes she would be a much more popular character than she was, leading to spin-off media beyond that. Never really happened. I must admit, I don't miss her. I loved me some Arya Stark but it's like Maisie was on autopilot doing DW.Ā Ā Ashildr is a weird one. My personal theory is that she was originally meant to be in just the one episode as a guest role and then when Moffat discovered they could get Maisie Williams he rewrote her and added her into the following stories. As you said though, I donāt think anyone really fell in love with her as a character after that hence why her appearances in EU material came and went. And I still call bull on the idea that sheās the only immortal who lasted until the end of the universe. But thatās a topic for another time.
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Post by timegirl on May 16, 2021 13:25:55 GMT
Techno babble heavy run arounds are one of my least favorite types of Doctor Who stories. These types of stories are slightly better on tv because at least then I might have something interesting to look at, but on audio there is nothing for me to hold onto. Techno babble does not have much meaning, I like dialogue to actually really mean something.
In contrast I think the best and most memorable kinds of Doctor Who stories are the ones that put the emotions of the characters before anything else. This is probably part of the reason why the Capaldi era is my favorite! No matter what the emotions of 12 and his companions always came first in every episode. These are the kind of BF Doctor Who stories I enjoy as well. I often find that in Sixieās and Eightās run where they seem particularly invested the lives of these Doctors and their companions.I think DW stories that put the emotions the characters first are sometimes even better when they manage to meld the sci-fi concepts in with the emotions of the characters.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 2:23:04 GMT
Techno babble heavy run arounds are one of my least favorite types of Doctor Who stories. These types of stories are slightly better on tv because at least then I might have something interesting to look at, but on audio there is nothing for me to hold onto. Techno babble does not have much meaning, I like dialogue to actually really mean something. In contrast I think the best and most memorable kinds of Doctor Who stories are the ones that put the emotions of the characters before anything else. This is probably part of the reason why the Capaldi era is my favorite! No matter what the emotions of 12 and his companions always came first in every episode. These are the kind of BF Doctor Who stories I enjoy as well. I often find that in Sixieās and Eightās run where they seem particularly invested the lives of these Doctors and their companions.I think DW stories that put the emotions the characters first are sometimes even better when they manage to meld the sci-fi concepts in with the emotions of the characters. This is why strong worldbuilding is so important. You can definitely be technical, develop a dialect of your own in storytelling, but it loses its edge when it doesn't have a purpose behind it. Meaning that the characters derive from it. A good example is the phrase "transtemporal engineering". Cut that down into its constituent components: trans- (across or beyond), temporal (time), engineering (practical application of science). Someone has the ability to develop a material object from a science that exists beyond a conventional understanding of Time. They can use that dimension like a building material. In the same way as stone or wood. If you're human, that might be either an amazing or frightening reality. If you're a Time Lord, it might mean whoever's behind it is a friend or an enemy.
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Post by timegirl on May 17, 2021 14:16:41 GMT
I know BF and other areas of expanded universe have, but why has there never been another tv episode set in the Land of Fiction after The Mind Robber? There are endless possibilities of stories that could happen in that setting and there is even more that could be done with the special effects we have now. The setting is practically gift wrapped and packaged for interesting stories. Plus the Land of Fiction is one of those Classic era throw backs that would be nostalgic for those who have seen āThe Mind Robberā while also being a concept that wouldnāt need much explaining to new viewers and its one that could be very easily embraced by a new generation of fans!
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Post by timegirl on May 17, 2021 20:01:38 GMT
Even though there are a few good things about it like Eccelston, some twists, and the ending, I really hope one day if and when BF gets Capaldi they take a different approach than āRavengers.ā This is just my take and I am sure some people love it and they are entitled to and of course I am sure everyone worked really hard on āRavengersā, but I really donāt like this approach for reintroducing a Doctor for BF. Itās just too techno babble heavy and I can barely remember what happened. The first story for reintroducing a Doctor should be a meaningful character piece not a run around. Of course it can still be fun and a romp even but there is a way to do that and integrate character work and drama with that. They should definitely not take the run around approach if and when BF get Capaldi, his Doctorās era is all about the character development of him and his companions. It needs to be something memorable that really takes its time and explores his character even more. Something that really stays with you.
Sidenote: I know this would probably never happen, but if I was in charge of writing Peterās first story for BF I know exactly what story I would tell and trust me when I say whether or not people enjoyed it there would be zero chance of anyone forgetting it afterwards.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 18, 2021 17:56:45 GMT
I don't get the calls for the Master to be the Timeless Child - I think it'd be a colossal copout if Chris does that, and it adds practically nothing to him or opens up new layers to explore. While we've yet to see how it pans out for the Doctor, I do think it works there as the Doctor was the one thing that The Master, for all his many failings and mistakes, thought he had figured out. Taking that away from him, that last sliver of something he could consider 'his win', his 'mastery', would be devastating.
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Post by timegirl on May 20, 2021 14:35:31 GMT
Doctor Who is many different things but it is always slightly silly. DW should always have at least some hint of silliness weather it be a subtle funny line or quirk of the Doctor or an episode done entirely in all out camp. DW can be serious, meaningful, and profound but it should never be just a straightforward sci-fi drama because after all it is about an idiot in a box with screwdriver helping out and learning. We should also, I think, always remind ourselves as fans (including myself) that Doctor Who is always slightly silly so that way we donāt take it too overly seriously. You canāt have Doctor Who without the silliness, or else it wouldnāt be Doctor Who.
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Post by timegirl on May 21, 2021 13:06:43 GMT
I know 12 referred to them once in Zygon Invasion / Zygon Inversion, but 12 really should have worn the question mark underpants on screen in DW at least once š Itās too funny an idea not to see them at least once! I wonder if they are boxers or briefs? Personally I think imagine 12 wearing boxers š¤š What color are the question marks?š¤
Does 12 have multiple pairs of the same underpants of does he have a variety of all different question mark underpants in all different designs and colors?š
Sidenote: In my head cannon, Clara most definitely accidentally walked in on 12 wearing just his question mark undies around the TARDIS, possibly while he was playing the guitar š
Sidenote: If Peter comes to BF one day, there should definitely be at least one story where 12 for some bizarre reason ends up having to spend most of the story in his question mark underpants and runs around London or somewhere in themš
I donāt know why I love this little detail about 12 itās just so funny š
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Post by sherlock on May 21, 2021 13:15:02 GMT
I know 12 referred to them once in Zygon Invasion / Zygon Inversion, but 12 really should have worn the question mark underpants on screen in DW at least once š Itās too funny an idea not to see them at least once! I wonder if they are boxers or briefs? Personally I think imagine 12 wearing boxers š¤š What color are the question marks?š¤ Does 12 have multiple pairs of the same underpants of does he have a variety of all different question mark underpants in all different designs and colors?š Sidenote: In my head cannon, Clara most definitely accidentally walked in on 12 wearing just his question mark undies around the TARDIS, possibly while he was playing the guitar š Sidenote: If Peter comes to BF one day, there should definitely be at least one story where 12 for some bizarre reason ends up having to spend most of the story in his question mark underpants and runs around London or somewhere in themš I donāt know why I love this little detail about 12 itās just so funny š Itās not a detail unique to Twelve, the Eighth Doctor (well strictly speaking a parallel universe version of him married to Grace Holloway) was revealed to wear them in The Glorious Dead. See below- Edit: Yes I did just go to the TARDIS Wiki with a sole purpose of finding a picture of these pants, and naturally I was not disappointed.
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Post by timegirl on May 21, 2021 13:30:37 GMT
I know 12 referred to them once in Zygon Invasion / Zygon Inversion, but 12 really should have worn the question mark underpants on screen in DW at least once š Itās too funny an idea not to see them at least once! I wonder if they are boxers or briefs? Personally I think imagine 12 wearing boxers š¤š What color are the question marks?š¤ Does 12 have multiple pairs of the same underpants of does he have a variety of all different question mark underpants in all different designs and colors?š Sidenote: In my head cannon, Clara most definitely accidentally walked in on 12 wearing just his question mark undies around the TARDIS, possibly while he was playing the guitar š Sidenote: If Peter comes to BF one day, there should definitely be at least one story where 12 for some bizarre reason ends up having to spend most of the story in his question mark underpants and runs around London or somewhere in themš I donāt know why I love this little detail about 12 itās just so funny š Itās not a detail unique to Twelve, the Eighth Doctor (well strictly speaking a parallel universe version of him married to Grace Holloway) was revealed to wear them in The Glorious Dead. See below- View AttachmentEdit: Yes I did just go to the TARDIS Wiki with a sole purpose of finding a picture of these pants, and naturally I was not disappointed. I have seen that picture! š I would still like to see the question mark undies on 12 though!š¤š I wonder if what kind of question mark undies the Doctor wears is different for each incarnation of the Doctor? At least I have this hanging in my room to tide me over: @johannathemad johannathemad.tumblr.com/This scene is 100% cannon in my head!š
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Post by timegirl on May 23, 2021 18:10:07 GMT
I like Jago and Lightfoot better as a BF spinoff than I do in āTalons of Weng Chiangā . While āTalonsā does have a lot going for it with the dark gothic horror tone and the start of Jago and Lightfootās relationship, it also unfortunately has distractingly offensive use of yellow face that I wish wasnāt there. Jago and Lightfoot the BF spinoff deepens and fleshes out the characters to more fully formed characters, adds the pivotal third member of their investigative team of Ellie the bar maid, and just has a more wide variety of creative premises that range from traditional gothic horror to surreal dream logic to 1960s farce to musical, and everything else in between. I do recognize without ātalonā we wouldnāt have the BF spinoff but I think on audio is where the team really shines the brightest.
On a related note itās a shame that āTalonsā had to pick a gothic horror sub genre that has such horrible racist undertones because otherwise it would be perfect. I donāt know weather if they had cast actual Asian actors and toned down certain aspects if that would have saved that side of plot but even at the time it was culturally insensitive. If they had picked say Phantom of the Opera or Sweeney Todd (which would later be loosely paid homage to Deep Breath with the half face man) to homage āTalonsā would have aged far better.
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Post by Superium on May 28, 2021 16:22:43 GMT
The Sontarans in 'The Two Doctors' is their best design and should've been used from the start.
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Post by grinch on Jun 3, 2021 11:37:28 GMT
Although, perhaps a bit violent for most I think the Cybermen crushing Lyttonās hands in Attack of the Cybermen is perfectly in keeping with the modus operandi of the race.
Mainly in how they exploit human weakness while also highlighting the fragility of flesh.
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Post by timegirl on Jun 3, 2021 17:10:15 GMT
I would like to see the idea of incarnations of the Doctor having different alternative forms/alter egos being explored more. There is a lot that could be said through alternate forms about their incarnation: their hopes, fears, dreams, desires. Not the Valeyard or evil, but just a different side to their incarnation that is hidden or we donāt normally see.
Sidenote: I have particular ideas about what 12ās alternative form is like, but you guys already know that š
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 8:44:17 GMT
Although, perhaps a bit violent for most I think the Cybermen crushing Lyttonās hands in Attack of the Cybermen is perfectly in keeping with the modus operandi of the race. Mainly in how they exploit human weakness while also highlighting the fragility of flesh. And the expendibility of "raw materials". Lytton is just a column of meat to the Cybermen, to be augmented and replaced as needed. With his final fate in mind, they can do whatever they like to him because anything damaged can be replaced. I'm a fan of Attack of the Cybermen's approach to its titular villains. It's the first time that our worst fears of their cybernetic processing methods are confirmed. We get to see it firsthand. The image of Lytton in the unit, lolling his pale features as his brain is pumped full of drugs, is still quite imposing. A rather visceral personification of what the Cybermen take away.
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Post by timegirl on Jun 4, 2021 16:48:10 GMT
I would like to see/hear/read more DW stories with more personal character driven stakes than the standard universe is ending.
Also more stories about the Doctor and their companions in their off time doing mundane things around the Tardis or fun things like having a sleepover, going camping, stargazing, or going dancing.
Also I really donāt like cybermen stories where they are just portrayed as basically robots. Itās very boring. Why even do a Cyberman story if you arenāt going to do anything with the fact that they are converted humans?
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Post by grinch on Jun 4, 2021 17:04:54 GMT
Although, perhaps a bit violent for most I think the Cybermen crushing Lyttonās hands in Attack of the Cybermen is perfectly in keeping with the modus operandi of the race. Mainly in how they exploit human weakness while also highlighting the fragility of flesh. And the expendibility of "raw materials". Lytton is just a column of meat to the Cybermen, to be augmented and replaced as needed. With his final fate in mind, they can do whatever they like to him because anything damaged can be replaced. I'm a fan of Attack of the Cybermen's approach to its titular villains. It's the first time that our worst fears of their cybernetic processing methods are confirmed. We get to see it firsthand. The image of Lytton in the unit, lolling his pale features as his brain is pumped full of drugs, is still quite imposing. A rather visceral personification of what the Cybermen take away. Wonderfully put. In a way, the main strengths behind the idea of the Cybermen is always their greatest weakness. Considering that for the most part Doctor Who is a family show, thereās no way you could ever fully take advantage of the body horror that such a premise allows for. However, I do think the closest we have to come to it is the World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls two parter.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 17:05:00 GMT
Although, perhaps a bit violent for most I think the Cybermen crushing Lyttonās hands in Attack of the Cybermen is perfectly in keeping with the modus operandi of the race. Mainly in how they exploit human weakness while also highlighting the fragility of flesh. For all their terrible acts, that hand-crushing scene and subsequent treatment of Lytton is, to my mind, the single most brutal and terrifying thing they have done. To go further, I think Attack of the Cybermen is one of the best Cyber-tales (notwithstanding imprisoning the Doctor in a cell with enough explosive to destroy Cyber-Control. Not their wisest decision. Brawn over brain, perhaps?).
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