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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 21, 2016 20:17:56 GMT
I really hate the family aspect in NuWho. Rose, Martha, Mickey, Donna, Amy, Rory and Clara all had family and partners whilst travelling in TARDIS. I always felt that a companion joined the Doctor to get away from family and friends. It doesn't help that every companion is from present day (the cheapest stories to film). Going back to see family and partners intruded on the main plot. I do understand where you are coming from (at points in the RTD era it felt more like Eastenders in Space than Doctor Who) but I have the opposite problem with Classic Who, we know next to nothing about most the companions history and families, and it seems kinda hard to believe they could dissapear for months or years at a time without their families noticing... Sorry for going on about this, but... The dynamic comes from the relationship between Doctor and companion, and what the companion can bring to the story. Is there anyone on this forum who watched Classic Who before NuWho, and thought "I would have enjoyed Inferno more, if I had seen Liz Shaws parents"? or "I would have enjoyed Robot more if we had a flashback to Harry Sullivans parents waving to him from the platform as he took the train to enlisted in the Navy"? I don't need to know anything about the companions private life/parents. If you've read the classic literature of Conan Doyles Sherlock Holmes, we basically only know information about his brother. Nothing, or extremely, very little about his parents. Its not important. It doesn't help tell the story. Its padding. Granada Productions had nothing about his parents. It didn't advance the story. Now, Moffat comes along and we meet Sherlocks parents. Its very sad for tv.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 21, 2016 20:18:43 GMT
Yes, I know that Nicola was upset. If I figure out where I heard it I'll let you know. Its definitely on the DVD.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 5:48:42 GMT
I do understand where you are coming from (at points in the RTD era it felt more like Eastenders in Space than Doctor Who) but I have the opposite problem with Classic Who, we know next to nothing about most the companions history and families, and it seems kinda hard to believe they could dissapear for months or years at a time without their families noticing... Sorry for going on about this, but... The dynamic comes from the relationship between Doctor and companion, and what the companion can bring to the story. Is there anyone on this forum who watched Classic Who before NuWho, and thought "I would have enjoyed Inferno more, if I had seen Liz Shaws parents"? or "I would have enjoyed Robot more if we had a flashback to Harry Sullivans parents waving to him from the platform as he took the train to enlisted in the Navy"? I don't need to know anything about the companions private life/parents. If you've read the classic literature of Conan Doyles Sherlock Holmes, we basically only know information about his brother. Nothing, or extremely, very little about his parents. Its not important. It doesn't help tell the story. Its padding. Granada Productions had nothing about his parents. It didn't advance the story. Now, Moffat comes along and we meet Sherlocks parents. Its very sad for tv. Yes. It always bugged me that families were often treated as though they never existed and the companion's travels impact on the family was ignored. The little touches of family that started to be added by JNT helped address that, and RTD was only building on that foundation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 6:59:01 GMT
Sorry for going on about this, but... The dynamic comes from the relationship between Doctor and companion, and what the companion can bring to the story. Is there anyone on this forum who watched Classic Who before NuWho, and thought "I would have enjoyed Inferno more, if I had seen Liz Shaws parents"? or "I would have enjoyed Robot more if we had a flashback to Harry Sullivans parents waving to him from the platform as he took the train to enlisted in the Navy"? I don't need to know anything about the companions private life/parents. If you've read the classic literature of Conan Doyles Sherlock Holmes, we basically only know information about his brother. Nothing, or extremely, very little about his parents. Its not important. It doesn't help tell the story. Its padding. Granada Productions had nothing about his parents. It didn't advance the story. Now, Moffat comes along and we meet Sherlocks parents. Its very sad for tv. Yes. It always bugged me that families were often treated as though they never existed and the companion's travels impact on the family was ignored. The little touches of family that started to be added by JNT helped address that, and RTD was only building on that foundation. To compromise between the two, I personally like it when it feels relevant to the character. I don't feel a burning need to see Tegan's parents or the farm outside Brisbane, but having Claudia Christian come on board to play Peri's mother, Janine, was a really good way to develop her character beyond what we'd seen at that stage. The one thing I think writers have to remember is, just because they're related to another character, doesn't mean that they themselves are automatically interesting. You also run the risk of not only demystifying a character (like in the case of Sherlock), but also making your world seem a lot smaller (like in Star Wars), so a fine line has to be drawn between the two.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 22, 2016 9:57:36 GMT
Yes. It always bugged me that families were often treated as though they never existed and the companion's travels impact on the family was ignored. The little touches of family that started to be added by JNT helped address that, and RTD was only building on that foundation. To compromise between the two, I personally like it when it feels relevant to the character. I don't feel a burning need to see Tegan's parents or the farm outside Brisbane, but having Claudia Christian come on board to play Peri's mother, Janine, was a really good way to develop her character beyond what we'd seen at that stage. The one thing I think writers have to remember is, just because they're related to another character, doesn't mean that they themselves are automatically interesting. You also run the risk of not only demystifying a character (like in the case of Sherlock), but also making your world seem a lot smaller (like in Star Wars), so a fine line has to be drawn between the two. Interesting that you picked a Big Finish story. There is a time and place to included family, and 30 years later on cd is probably the right time and place. And, (edited), JNTs little touches are nice, but the viewer never gets to see the family, ever again. Thats fine, in my book. Going backwards and forwards seeing family isn't!
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Apr 22, 2016 10:12:52 GMT
I wouldn't have missed Jackie Tyler or Sylvia Noble or Wilf for anything.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 22, 2016 10:36:50 GMT
I wouldn't have missed Jackie Tyler or Sylvia Noble or Wilf for anything. Can't stand any of them!
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Post by jasonward on Apr 22, 2016 10:45:06 GMT
I can't stand all the family stuff, and agree with PaulMorris, it's totally unneeded, doesn't advance the story and just makes me think of soap operas which I really dislike. Unfortunately for me, soap operas seem quite popular, but Doctor Who does not need to become one or mimic one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 11:19:47 GMT
I can't stand all the family stuff, and agree with PaulMorris, it's totally unneeded, doesn't advance the story and just makes me think of soap operas which I really dislike. Unfortunately for me, soap operas seem quite popular, but Doctor Who does not need to become one or mimic one. I agree it got overdone and soap-opera like. Moffat got the mix better, bring family in when they can add to the emotion of a situation, then jettison them.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 22, 2016 11:45:31 GMT
I can't stand all the family stuff, and agree with PaulMorris, it's totally unneeded, doesn't advance the story and just makes me think of soap operas which I really dislike. Unfortunately for me, soap operas seem quite popular, but Doctor Who does not need to become one or mimic one. I agree it got overdone and soap-opera like. Moffat got the mix better, bring family in when they can add to the emotion of a situation, then jettison them. I never enjoyed the Rory/Father, Amy/Parents, Amy/Rory, Clara/Danny or Clara/Parent elements!
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Apr 22, 2016 12:04:54 GMT
oh, yeah, Brian - I wish they'd introduced him a year or two earlier.
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Post by mrperson on Apr 22, 2016 14:00:28 GMT
I can't stand all the family stuff, and agree with PaulMorris, it's totally unneeded, doesn't advance the story and just makes me think of soap operas which I really dislike. Unfortunately for me, soap operas seem quite popular, but Doctor Who does not need to become one or mimic one. Same here.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 22, 2016 18:37:46 GMT
oh, yeah, Brian - I wish they'd introduced him a year or two earlier. Who, and why?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 18:44:25 GMT
oh, yeah, Brian - I wish they'd introduced him a year or two earlier. Who, and why? I think bobod meant Brian Williams. Actually I think he got introduced just in time for Rory's departure to have real emotional impact, only to have the p.s. scene cut before ever being made. such a shame, it would have made that episode so much more powerful to have it be about the people who get left behind rather than coming up with convoluted ways to have the Doctor become grief stricken over two people living long happy lives together.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 22, 2016 18:48:18 GMT
Very convoluted! And, Moffat continues to do it!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 19:11:32 GMT
I love the family aspect in places. It was something new. And for people saying it didn't add anything...not everything has to be plot-driven. RTD is a master of advancing character as well - something lacking from many companions in history who never felt like living, breathing people with a past and a future once the cameras stopped.
Moffat obviously doesn't care as much for that aspect - we never saw Mr and Mrs Pond again after the wedding, Brian was an afterthough, Clara's dad changed actor and neither Amy or Clara's family losing them was ever addressed at all. Perhaps that was the right idea after the Tylers, Jones' and Nobles all played quite a big role in their eras.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 22, 2016 21:32:58 GMT
RTD was never a master of advancing character.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Apr 23, 2016 17:55:28 GMT
Well countered there, I'm sure you've convinced him.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 23, 2016 21:18:26 GMT
You've not changed my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2016 5:56:11 GMT
Well, that's what the thread is for: odd, unpopular or controversial opinions. By its very nature, not everyone is going to agree.
Like... I think Daleks have poetry, art, and music, just not in the same way we do. It's all in service of the state and the ultimate Dalek ideal. I also believe that towards the Sixth Doctor's era there's ideological dissension on Skaro as individual drones begin to question which method of exploitation is more efficient due to the return of Davros. They don't stop being Daleks, but they begin to question what aspect of their culture should be brought to the forefront. Conquest or extermination?
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