|
Post by paulmorris7777 on Jun 11, 2016 0:22:13 GMT
Its for people who have short attention spans. For soap fans. Viewers who fall in love with the leads. Viewers who can't differentiate between real life and make believe, who cry when the Doctor regenerates. Serious question no malice intended:
What was the last episode of the programme that you actually enjoyed?
Regards
mark687
From beginning to end, with very few flaws, and lots of hindsight - The Caves of Androzani - was the last chronological story, I actually enjoyed. I continued to watch until the final original run, but overall, they were poor! I never liked the "Cartmel plan", and NuWho is an insult.
|
|
|
Post by grazey on Jun 11, 2016 0:37:25 GMT
Popularity is only maybe made up of a tiny percentage of quality. There are a whole TARDIS load of reasons why something is successful beyond if it's any good or not, including timing, marketing, appeal, target demographic, necessity, cultural and social context and baggage to name a few. I'm not saying Moffat's era is bad by any means, but I'm just saying you can't just box off opposing views with a couple of blanket 'x likes this' remarks. If you like the show as is, awesome, no one denies you that right and more power to you, but discussion is a two way street and not having it would be more harmful than helpful. If the story's crap, the audience won't watch though. That's why independent films generally don't do very well - they strive to break the rules of storytelling and so mainstream audiences tend to find them hard to follow or just generally dislike the move from the traditional Hollywood three-act structure. That doesn't explain why people go and see such crap such as transformers or the turtles. Both franchises have crap stories but make a killing at the box office. It's lack of promotion and studio backing that are the factors in films doing well or not. Take this weekend for example you have the new Melissa McCarthy film the boss which has had a critical mauling and yet because the distributors backed it and fully decided to promote it is at most cinemas. On the other hand when marnie was there had overwhelming positive reviews and a good few critics named it their film of the week but due to next to next to no promotion or studio backing only a handful of cinemas is showing it. If marnie had the same amount of backing as the boss would it make the same amount? Probably not but lack of promotion or backing does make a major difference. Film audiences have no issue of complex films. there are an endless list of complex independent films that were financial hits. Film studios wouldn't still make them if people weren't going to see them. Yes a good number barely break even but they are a small risk compared with the next big blockbuster if it flops. Would transformers 4 made over a billion at the box office if it didn't have hundreds of millions of dollars promotion? Nope. It's all down to promotion. Awareness is key. And the majority of independent films are down to lack of promotion. After all how are people supposed to see it if it isn't advertised.
|
|
|
Post by paulmorris7777 on Jun 11, 2016 7:18:42 GMT
The Japanese market had a lot to do with the Transformers franchise success. Some films are only made if they think it will succeed in Japan. Just cause it is successful doesn't mean its any good. Just look at Jedward!
|
|
|
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 11, 2016 7:56:26 GMT
If the story's crap, the audience won't watch though. That's why independent films generally don't do very well - they strive to break the rules of storytelling and so mainstream audiences tend to find them hard to follow or just generally dislike the move from the traditional Hollywood three-act structure. That doesn't explain why people go and see such crap such as transformers or the turtles. Because to those audiences it's a good story they believe in. Story and character always comes first. The Lone Ranger flopped because audiences called bull**** on the narrative. Because Studio Ghibli tend to make complex adult animated films and they aren't mainstream because the story is too weird. I wouldn't say that. Most independent films are niche and only known among either people like myself who study TV and Film Production or lecturers/experts in the area of film. Actually, they would because it's independent filmmakers who make them and often they don't have the backing of a major studio. There are a few that have been released through BFI for example.
|
|
|
Post by grazey on Jun 11, 2016 9:33:29 GMT
That doesn't explain why people go and see such crap such as transformers or the turtles. Because to those audiences it's a good story they believe in. Story and character always comes first. The Lone Ranger flopped because audiences called bull**** on the narrative. Because Studio Ghibli tend to make complex adult animated films and they aren't mainstream because the story is too weird. I wouldn't say that. Most independent films are niche and only known among either people like myself who study TV and Film Production or lecturers/experts in the area of film. Actually, they would because it's independent filmmakers who make them and often they don't have the backing of a major studio. There are a few that have been released through BFI for example. [bra Lone Ranger had such a bad stigma attached to it that it already had flopped in the publics eyes long before released. Johnny depp even joked that reviews had sunk it before it was even finished. Studio ghibli complex adult films? I take it you haven't watched my neighbour totoro or ponyo or Kiki delivery service or spirited away or a good percentage of their films. I'd neither describe the majority of them as adult or complex. One of the main Criticism of my neighbour is that it isn't a complex story. There are plenty of children who love their films as they are simple stories on the surface. As for weird it's more magical than anything else. When marnie was there had made 30 million dollars out of a 10 million dollar budget. That makes it a success. An independent film being a success who'd have thought it. plus it was Oscar nominated also so it should have been shown at more than just half a dozen cineworlds. Nope I totally disagree with only film lectures and film students only knowing independent films. I go to independent films on a weekly basis and have friends that also do so and none of them have any knowledge of being a lecturer or a film student. Would the witch have made 38 million dollars out of a million dollar budget by just lectures and students no of course not. That number may not sound like a huge amount compared with what marvel or Disney make but it's a success in the studio eyes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 9:53:15 GMT
Ironically (and having been to Koganei in Tokyo Metropolis), those Studio Ghibli films are definitely marketed for children. They absolutely love them to pieces, so complex adult stories...? They can be, but that wasn't the production studio's intention. Princess Mononoke and Grave of the Fireflies might be the only two that they made explicitly adult. Madhouse are who you're thinking of, they're the ones who have produced and published works like Black Lagoon, Tokyo Godfathers and Perfect Blue. For the most part, I think it's because they're stories that are deeply rooted in Japanese culture and mythology, much in the same way that the animated Disney films are. It's a bit of a shame they've never made any conclusive leap across beyond the emerging anime subculture because they're just as great to show children as Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, Winnie the Pooh or 101 Dalmations.
I can answer the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Transformers question very, very easily: they both use a combination of nostalgia and ignorance to draw in that audience. It's why so many people went and saw both the Star Trek reboot films and the newest Star Wars, although the ironic thing about the former is that the more Trek I see, the less I like those films. It's a familiar, comfortable and undemanding experience that doesn't require too much thought or energy.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Jun 11, 2016 10:50:55 GMT
Serious question no malice intended:
What was the last episode of the programme that you actually enjoyed?
Regards
mark687
From beginning to end, with very few flaws, and lots of hindsight - The Caves of Androzani - was the last chronological story, I actually enjoyed. I continued to watch until the final original run, but overall, they were poor! I never liked the "Cartmel plan", and NuWho is an insult. Cheers for the reply
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 11, 2016 13:36:33 GMT
Because to those audiences it's a good story they believe in. Story and character always comes first. The Lone Ranger flopped because audiences called bull**** on the narrative. Because Studio Ghibli tend to make complex adult animated films and they aren't mainstream because the story is too weird. I wouldn't say that. Most independent films are niche and only known among either people like myself who study TV and Film Production or lecturers/experts in the area of film. Actually, they would because it's independent filmmakers who make them and often they don't have the backing of a major studio. There are a few that have been released through BFI for example. Nope I totally disagree with only film lectures and film students only knowing independent films. I go to independent films on a weekly basis and have friends that also do so and none of them have any knowledge of being a lecturer or a film student. Would the witch have made 38 million dollars out of a million dollar budget by just lectures and students no of course not. That number may not sound like a huge amount compared with what marvel or Disney make but it's a success in the studio eyes. You are someone who clearly has an interest in films though. The casual audience are unlikely to see an independent film. As with everything, there are exceptions - Little Miss Sunshine is technically an independent film but it was a huge success - but you'll find most independent films have more of a niche audience in comparison to the big blockbusters.
|
|
|
Post by Ela on Jun 19, 2016 16:37:08 GMT
Studio ghibli complex adult films? I take it you haven't watched my neighbour totoro or ponyo or Kiki delivery service or spirited away or a good percentage of their films. I'd neither describe the majority of them as adult or complex. One of the main Criticism of my neighbour is that it isn't a complex story. There are plenty of children who love their films as they are simple stories on the surface. As for weird it's more magical than anything else. When marnie was there had made 30 million dollars out of a 10 million dollar budget. That makes it a success. An independent film being a success who'd have thought it. plus it was Oscar nominated also so it should have been shown at more than just half a dozen cineworlds. There are a number of Studio Ghibli films that are well worth watching, even for adults. I have many adult friends who love these films. Some of them are students of film-making, others are writers and people with a variety of interests. I haven't watched a lot of them myself, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the ones I did watch. Nope I totally disagree with only film lectures and film students only knowing independent films. I go to independent films on a weekly basis and have friends that also do so and none of them have any knowledge of being a lecturer or a film student. Would the witch have made 38 million dollars out of a million dollar budget by just lectures and students no of course not. That number may not sound like a huge amount compared with what marvel or Disney make but it's a success in the studio eyes. Agree on that. While I don't see independent films as much as you seem to, I have seen a number and they are often very interesting, although they do get a smaller audience than the big films produced by major studios.
|
|