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Post by relativetime on Jun 13, 2016 23:29:36 GMT
I had no idea how much I needed an audio drama like this until I listened to it. The Master and the Master - really, why HADN'T this been done sooner? This definitely lived up to my expectations. Now I have to revisit And You Will Obey Me and Vampire of the Mind again to pick out everything I missed!
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Post by constonks on Jun 14, 2016 1:04:02 GMT
Just realized something amusing while updating my Master timeline... It seemed like And You Will Obey Me was near the END of Beevers' time and Vampire of the Mind was near the BEGINNING of Macqueen's time and instead Obey is near the END of Macqueen's time and Vampire is near the BEGINNING of Beevers'. Utterly mad. Loved it.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jun 14, 2016 2:44:08 GMT
Absolutely amazing authorship and truly extraordinary lead performances. Mr. John Dorney, please do take a bow - out of all your great stories, I hope you're particularly proud of this one, since you have every reason to be.
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Post by Whovitt on Jun 14, 2016 3:18:22 GMT
So let me get this straight: in the Master's timeline, Beevers (pre-zombification) is ambushed by Macqueen, zombified and sent to Terserus (or however it's spelt). Their minds are swapped and Beevers-in-Macqueen is allowed to go. At this point Beevers-in-Macqueen goes through the events of Vampire of the Mind, after which he becomes the general in the war in The Two Masters, where he is reinstated into his zombified body and sent back to his own time when the story finishes (presumably a lead in to The Deadly Assassin). Some incarnations later, Macqueen returns to Terserus and the Cult, who give him the task to kill Beevers. Macqueen fails to kill Beevers, resulting in the mind swap. After Beevers-in-Macqueen is set free, Macqueen-in-Beevers escapes to the events of And You Will Obey Me. Once this is over, he tracks down the Seventh Doctor to help him find Beevers-in-Macqueen. They succeed and put their minds back in their proper bodies and the rest of The Two Masters plays out (again). Is that right? If so, we now also know: 1. Macqueen is responisble for Beevers' zombification, which places The Two Masters and hence And You Will Obey Me somewhere between Frontier in Space and The Deadly Assassin for Beevers (as Beevers is a later incarnation than Delgado), as he obviously isn't a 'zombie' before Macqueen tracks him down (Macqueen also makes reference to the fact that a certain Chancellor is probably about to track down the newly zombified Beevers, presumably referencing Chancellor Goth from The Deadly Assassin). 2. Bearing in mind that Macqueen-in-Beevers hasn't met the Seventh Doctor yet (at the start of The Two Masters he mentions the Doctor having a new face), we can assume that these events are set before UNIT: Dominion, where he does know the Seventh Doctor (incidentally, Dominion is earlier in the Doctor's timeline, as he doesn't recognise Macqueen in Dominion, whereas he does in The Two Masters). Even though the Masters don't remember the events of this trilogy afterwards, they would have had any previous memories while the stories were taking place, so if Dominion had already taken place for Macqueen he would have recognised him as Macqueen-in-Beevers at the start of The Two Masters. 2.1. If this is the case, then these are the earliest Macqueen stories so far. 2.2. There must be another story where Macqueen meets the Seventh Doctor, where the Seventh Doctor knows who Macqueen is but Macqueen doesn't recognise the Doctor, otherwise he wouldn't know who the Doctor is during Dominion (anyone else confused yet ). 3. Macqueen mentions to Beevers that there were several other Masters he could have chosen, including 'the Snake'. This proves without doubt that this Master is post- Movie, placing him (somewhere) between Eric Roberts and Derek Jacobi, and could potentially (not definitely) have been a Time War Master (there could have been several). 3.1. There is obviously a point between The Movie and the Time War where the Time Lords resurrect the Master and give him a new set of regenerations, otherwise Macqueen couldn't exist after Roberts, and thus Jacobi and the rest couldn't exist after Macqueen. These points are only true if I've got the original sequence of events right. If not, I may have just wasted my last thirty or so minutes sorting it all out So, all in all, we've actually got a lot more spaces (I don't want to use the words 'gaps' or 'holes') in the Master's timeline. However it does mean that there could hopefully be plenty more stories to explain them (please please please!) Anything anyone wants to disagree with there? (I'm not claiming to be an expert on these matters ) Also, should I have posted this in the Master's Timeline thread? I'll let the post be moved if it's better off there
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Jun 14, 2016 5:29:10 GMT
I had the mcquun master as post 8th doctor movie. As he is in the dark eyes stories and seems to fit well.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jun 14, 2016 7:10:14 GMT
So let me get this straight: in the Master's timeline, Beevers (pre-zombification) is ambushed by Macqueen, zombified and sent to Terserus (or however it's spelt). Their minds are swapped and Beevers-in-Macqueen is allowed to go. At this point Beevers-in-Macqueen goes through the events of Vampire of the Mind, after which he becomes the general in the war in The Two Masters, where he is reinstated into his zombified body and sent back to his own time when the story finishes (presumably a lead in to The Deadly Assassin). Some incarnations later, Macqueen returns to Terserus and the Cult, who give him the task to kill Beevers. Macqueen fails to kill Beevers, resulting in the mind swap. After Beevers-in-Macqueen is set free, Macqueen-in-Beevers escapes to the events of And You Will Obey Me. Once this is over, he tracks down the Seventh Doctor to help him find Beevers-in-Macqueen. They succeed and put their minds back in their proper bodies and the rest of The Two Masters plays out (again). Is that right? If so, we now also know: 1. Macqueen is responisble for Beevers' zombification, which places The Two Masters and hence And You Will Obey Me somewhere between Frontier in Space and The Deadly Assassin for Beevers (as Beevers is a later incarnation than Delgado), as he obviously isn't a 'zombie' before Macqueen tracks him down (Macqueen also makes reference to the fact that a certain Chancellor is probably about to track down the newly zombified Beevers, presumably referencing Chancellor Goth from The Deadly Assassin). 2. Bearing in mind that Macqueen-in-Beevers hasn't met the Seventh Doctor yet (at the start of The Two Masters he mentions the Doctor having a new face), we can assume that these events are set before UNIT: Dominion, where he does know the Seventh Doctor (incidentally, Dominion is earlier in the Doctor's timeline, as he doesn't recognise Macqueen in Dominion, whereas he does in The Two Masters). Even though the Masters don't remember the events of this trilogy afterwards, they would have had any previous memories while the stories were taking place, so if Dominion had already taken place for Macqueen he would have recognised him as Macqueen-in-Beevers at the start of The Two Masters. 2.1. If this is the case, then these are the earliest Macqueen stories so far. 2.2. There must be another story where Macqueen meets the Seventh Doctor, where the Seventh Doctor knows who Macqueen is but Macqueen doesn't recognise the Doctor, otherwise he wouldn't know who the Doctor is during Dominion (anyone else confused yet ). 3. Macqueen mentions to Beevers that there were several other Masters he could have chosen, including 'the Snake'. This proves without doubt that this Master is post- Movie, placing him (somewhere) between Eric Roberts and Derek Jacobi, and could potentially (not definitely) have been a Time War Master (there could have been several). 3.1. There is obviously a point between The Movie and the Time War where the Time Lords resurrect the Master and give him a new set of regenerations, otherwise Macqueen couldn't exist after Roberts, and thus Jacobi and the rest couldn't exist after Macqueen. These points are only true if I've got the original sequence of events right. If not, I may have just wasted my last thirty or so minutes sorting it all out So, all in all, we've actually got a lot more spaces (I don't want to use the words 'gaps' or 'holes') in the Master's timeline. However it does mean that there could hopefully be plenty more stories to explain them (please please please!) Anything anyone wants to disagree with there? (I'm not claiming to be an expert on these matters ) Also, should I have posted this in the Master's Timeline thread? I'll let the post be moved if it's better off there Regarding point 2- that's Beevers in Macqueen, not Macqueen in Beevers.
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Post by captain jack on Jun 14, 2016 7:55:52 GMT
2. Bearing in mind that Macqueen-in-Beevers hasn't met the Seventh Doctor yet (at the start of The Two Masters he mentions the Doctor having a new face), we can assume that these events are set before UNIT: Dominion, where he does know the Seventh Doctor (incidentally, Dominion is earlier in the Doctor's timeline, as he doesn't recognise Macqueen in Dominion, whereas he does in The Two Masters). Even though the Masters don't remember the events of this trilogy afterwards, they would have had any previous memories while the stories were taking place, so if Dominion had already taken place for Macqueen he would have recognised him as Macqueen-in-Beevers at the start of The Two Masters. 2.1. If this is the case, then these are the earliest Macqueen stories so far. 2.2. There must be another story where Macqueen meets the Seventh Doctor, where the Seventh Doctor knows who Macqueen is but Macqueen doesn't recognise the Doctor, otherwise he wouldn't know who the Doctor is during Dominion (anyone else confused yet ). . Surely the Macqueen Master would recognise Seven anyway as he's already encountered Seven when he was in the Ainley Body?
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Post by omega on Jun 14, 2016 8:36:26 GMT
It's one of the better epics Big Finish have done, and an interesting way of threatening the universe even if the reset switch was pulled. In a way it's fitting that the biggest spanner in the works for the Master were the people he was using to achieve his goals. If the Cult didn't Freaky Friday him and the Beevers Master then the Doctor likely wouldn't have gotten involved and the MacQueen Master may have won. The two Masters were well written and performed. They actually did more to progress the narrative than the Seventh Doctor. The guest cast didn't leave much of an impression on me. There's also the fact that all but the Doctor and the Masters died during the story (even if they were brought back by the end). Jemima was generic companion, but she also reminded me of Rachel Cooper from Architects of History as a could-be companion who got caught up in a universe changing event. There's something John Dorney said in the extras for Assassination Games, that when he writes for the Seventh Doctor he feels compelled to write a complicated scheme. He certainly succeeded this time! This is proper draw a diagram with annotations complex. So let me get this straight (a plot synopsis): {Spoiler}The MacQueen Master (M Master) knows about the Heretic and the Anomaly Cage. He seeks out the Cult of the Heretic and offers to activate the Cage. The leader of the Cult agrees to give the M Master access, but on the condition the M Master kill a previous incarnation. The M Master is unaware that the Cult intend to use the Master to activate the Cage.
The M Master travels to Tersurus, near the end the Beevers Master's (B Master) life, where he knows the B Master will get burned and picked up by Chancellor Goth where he will become the Deadly Assassin. The M Master traps the B Master and intends to kill him, but the leader of the Cult interferes and swaps the minds of the two Masters (B in M Master and M in B Master). They intend to use the bodyswapped Masters to spread a virus across space and time, while using his bio-data to activate the Cage.
The M in B Master goes in his TARDIS, which begins to behave erratically as a result of the bodyswap. It crashes in a barn near Hexford and the Cult sends assassins after him. The events of And You Will Obey Me follow. Because of the virus effect, the Fifth Doctor only retains very hazy memories of the events of the story and doesn't remember the Master's involvement.
The B in M Master goes to a scientific institute on the island where UNIT had imprisoned him. Using the alias Dr Damien Scott, he experiments with a Mind Leach in facilitate memory transference. The Sixth Doctor gets involved during Vampire of the Mind, by the end of which his short term memory is gone. The boatman from the same story was a spy for the M in B Master, who plants a tracker in the B in M Master's TARDIS while the B in M Master is distracted by the Sixth Doctor's presence.
The B in M Master travels to the last years of the Gorlan Civil War, during the fight for the Torazine Hypertunnel. He takes part in the defence of the Hypertunnel as General Malgrove for Baron Kalazar.
The M in B Master teleports onto a Rocket Men ship where the Seventh Doctor and Jemima are trying to get back to the Doctor's TARDIS before they reach a spot of no-time (caused by the M in B Master's presence). With the M in B Master's help they succeed, and the M in B Master forces the Doctor to aid him in dealing with the B in M Master.
The Doctor's TARDIS arrives on the flagship, where the M in B Master sends the Doctor to the B in M Master while the M in B Master kills Jemima and navigates the flagship toward the Hypertunnel. The box he instructed the Doctor to give to the B in M Master is revealed to be a device that emits a sonic tone keyed to destroy the Gorlans. The M in B Master knocks the Doctor out, and ties him up in the missile bay.
The Doctor comes to, and reveals that he's worked out what's happening. The two Masters have each other's personalities, and that they must have switched bodies. The B in M Master is surprised, but the M in B Master doesn't want to return to his own body. The M in B Master proposes that the M Master is restored to his own body while the B Master takes the Seventh Doctor's body, leaving the Seventh Doctor with his mind trapped in the body of the B Master. The two Masters make Contact, and return to their original bodies.
The Masters take the Doctor's TARDIS to the Anomaly Cage and kill the Cult of the Heretic, leaving the Doctor on the Gorlan flagship about to crash into he Hypertunnel. By this point their personalities begin to clash. Just as they are on the verge of using the Cage to recreate the universe as they see fit, the Doctor shows up in the Master's TARDIS, having escaped the flagship just before it crashed. The Doctor asks the Masters who will rule over their new universe, further widening the cracks in their conflicting personalities. The Doctor is able to remain alive through means earlier provided by the two Masters, adding fuel to the fire of their fight. While they bicker, the Doctor uses the Cage's controls to reset the universe as it was before, additionally sending the Masters back to their proper places in their timestreams (wiping their memories of their involvement with the Cult in the process) and undoing Jemima's death. Overall a great story. It promises great relisten value for the trilogy as a whole, and now I want Big Finish to do a multi-Doctor and multi-Master story, if only for the scene where the Doctors overcome their differences to work together while the two Masters squabble. 4 out of 5 Masters (so that's Delgado, Beevers, Ainley and MacQueen but not Roberts)
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Post by acousticwolf on Jun 14, 2016 8:45:48 GMT
As scripts go to Cardiff for "vetting", does this mean that "B Master" ( omega ref) is now canonically a separate incarnation and stops Delgado being "Mr Crispy"? Cheers Tony
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Post by CookieMaster on Jun 14, 2016 8:46:09 GMT
So let me get this straight (a plot synopsis): {Spoiler}The MacQueen Master (M Master) knows about the Heretic and the Anomaly Cage. He seeks out the Cult of the Heretic and offers to activate the Cage. The leader of the Cult agrees to give the M Master access, but on the condition the M Master kill a previous incarnation. The M Master is unaware that the Cult intend to use the Master to activate the Cage.
The M Master travels to Tersurus, near the end the Beevers Master's (B Master) life, where he knows the B Master will get burned and picked up by Chancellor Goth where he will become the Deadly Assassin. The M Master traps the B Master and intends to kill him, but the leader of the Cult interferes and swaps the minds of the two Masters (B in M Master and M in B Master). They intend to use the bodyswapped Masters to spread a virus across space and time, while using his bio-data to activate the Cage.
The M in B Master goes in his TARDIS, which begins to behave erratically as a result of the bodyswap. It crashes in a barn near Hexford and the Cult sends assassins after him. The events of And You Will Obey Me follow. Because of the virus effect, the Fifth Doctor only retains very hazy memories of the events of the story and doesn't remember the Master's involvement.
The B in M Master goes to a scientific institute on the island where UNIT had imprisoned him. Using the alias Dr Damien Scott, he experiments with a Mind Leach in facilitate memory transference. The Sixth Doctor gets involved during Vampire of the Mind, by the end of which his short term memory is gone. The boatman from the same story was a spy for the M in B Master, who plants a tracker in the B in M Master's TARDIS while the B in M Master is distracted by the Sixth Doctor's presence.
The B in M Master travels to the last years of the Gorlan Civil War, during the fight for the Torazine Hypertunnel. He takes part in the defence of the Hypertunnel as General Malgrove for Baron Kalazar.
The M in B Master teleports onto a Rocket Men ship where the Seventh Doctor and Jemima are trying to get back to the Doctor's TARDIS before they reach a spot of no-time (caused by the M in B Master's presence). With the M in B Master's help they succeed, and the M in B Master forces the Doctor to aid him in dealing with the B in M Master.
The Doctor's TARDIS arrives on the flagship, where the M in B Master sends the Doctor to the B in M Master while the M in B Master kills Jemima and navigates the flagship toward the Hypertunnel. The box he instructed the Doctor to give to the B in M Master is revealed to be a device that emits a sonic tone keyed to destroy the Gorlans. The M in B Master knocks the Doctor out, and ties him up in the missile bay.
The Doctor comes to, and reveals that he's worked out what's happening. The two Masters have each other's personalities, and that they must have switched bodies. The B in M Master is surprised, but the M in B Master doesn't want to return to his own body. The M in B Master proposes that the M Master is restored to his own body while the B Master takes the Seventh Doctor's body, leaving the Seventh Doctor with his mind trapped in the body of the B Master. The two Masters make Contact, and return to their original bodies.
The Masters take the Doctor's TARDIS to the Anomaly Cage and kill the Cult of the Heretic, leaving the Doctor on the Gorlan flagship about to crash into he Hypertunnel. By this point their personalities begin to clash. Just as they are on the verge of using the Cage to recreate the universe as they see fit, the Doctor shows up in the Master's TARDIS, having escaped the flagship just before it crashed. The Doctor asks the Masters who will rule over their new universe, further widening the cracks in their conflicting personalities. The Doctor is able to remain alive through means earlier provided by the two Masters, adding fuel to the fire of their fight. While they bicker, the Doctor uses the Cage's controls to reset the universe as it was before, additionally sending the Masters back to their proper places in their timestreams (wiping their memories of their involvement with the Cult in the process) and undoing Jemima's death. Yeah, eat your heart out Steven Moffat!! What i would love to know is, what did Beevers dress like before?
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jun 14, 2016 8:53:09 GMT
So let me get this straight (a plot synopsis): {Spoiler}The MacQueen Master (M Master) knows about the Heretic and the Anomaly Cage. He seeks out the Cult of the Heretic and offers to activate the Cage. The leader of the Cult agrees to give the M Master access, but on the condition the M Master kill a previous incarnation. The M Master is unaware that the Cult intend to use the Master to activate the Cage.
The M Master travels to Tersurus, near the end the Beevers Master's (B Master) life, where he knows the B Master will get burned and picked up by Chancellor Goth where he will become the Deadly Assassin. The M Master traps the B Master and intends to kill him, but the leader of the Cult interferes and swaps the minds of the two Masters (B in M Master and M in B Master). They intend to use the bodyswapped Masters to spread a virus across space and time, while using his bio-data to activate the Cage.
The M in B Master goes in his TARDIS, which begins to behave erratically as a result of the bodyswap. It crashes in a barn near Hexford and the Cult sends assassins after him. The events of And You Will Obey Me follow. Because of the virus effect, the Fifth Doctor only retains very hazy memories of the events of the story and doesn't remember the Master's involvement.
The B in M Master goes to a scientific institute on the island where UNIT had imprisoned him. Using the alias Dr Damien Scott, he experiments with a Mind Leach in facilitate memory transference. The Sixth Doctor gets involved during Vampire of the Mind, by the end of which his short term memory is gone. The boatman from the same story was a spy for the M in B Master, who plants a tracker in the B in M Master's TARDIS while the B in M Master is distracted by the Sixth Doctor's presence.
The B in M Master travels to the last years of the Gorlan Civil War, during the fight for the Torazine Hypertunnel. He takes part in the defence of the Hypertunnel as General Malgrove for Baron Kalazar.
The M in B Master teleports onto a Rocket Men ship where the Seventh Doctor and Jemima are trying to get back to the Doctor's TARDIS before they reach a spot of no-time (caused by the M in B Master's presence). With the M in B Master's help they succeed, and the M in B Master forces the Doctor to aid him in dealing with the B in M Master.
The Doctor's TARDIS arrives on the flagship, where the M in B Master sends the Doctor to the B in M Master while the M in B Master kills Jemima and navigates the flagship toward the Hypertunnel. The box he instructed the Doctor to give to the B in M Master is revealed to be a device that emits a sonic tone keyed to destroy the Gorlans. The M in B Master knocks the Doctor out, and ties him up in the missile bay.
The Doctor comes to, and reveals that he's worked out what's happening. The two Masters have each other's personalities, and that they must have switched bodies. The B in M Master is surprised, but the M in B Master doesn't want to return to his own body. The M in B Master proposes that the M Master is restored to his own body while the B Master takes the Seventh Doctor's body, leaving the Seventh Doctor with his mind trapped in the body of the B Master. The two Masters make Contact, and return to their original bodies.
The Masters take the Doctor's TARDIS to the Anomaly Cage and kill the Cult of the Heretic, leaving the Doctor on the Gorlan flagship about to crash into he Hypertunnel. By this point their personalities begin to clash. Just as they are on the verge of using the Cage to recreate the universe as they see fit, the Doctor shows up in the Master's TARDIS, having escaped the flagship just before it crashed. The Doctor asks the Masters who will rule over their new universe, further widening the cracks in their conflicting personalities. The Doctor is able to remain alive through means earlier provided by the two Masters, adding fuel to the fire of their fight. While they bicker, the Doctor uses the Cage's controls to reset the universe as it was before, additionally sending the Masters back to their proper places in their timestreams (wiping their memories of their involvement with the Cult in the process) and undoing Jemima's death. Yeah, eat your heart out Steven Moffat!! What i would love to know is, what did Beevers dress like before? dungarees and lilac spats.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 11:13:07 GMT
One and a half episodes into this, and it's absolutely brilliant. Beever's Master doesn't usually have this much fun ("Not in this incarnation," as the Doctor popints out), so something's amiss. The dialogue for the main characters is terrific, and the Doctor's 'monkey' Jemima is lovely. At least she was before ... anyway, this is such fun, I'd better get back to it. Many congrats to all.
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Post by dasmaniac on Jun 14, 2016 12:04:27 GMT
So let me get this straight: in the Master's timeline, Beevers (pre-zombification) is ambushed by Macqueen, zombified and sent to Terserus (or however it's spelt). Their minds are swapped and Beevers-in-Macqueen is allowed to go. At this point Beevers-in-Macqueen goes through the events of Vampire of the Mind, after which he becomes the general in the war in The Two Masters, where he is reinstated into his zombified body and sent back to his own time when the story finishes (presumably a lead in to The Deadly Assassin). Some incarnations later, Macqueen returns to Terserus and the Cult, who give him the task to kill Beevers. Macqueen fails to kill Beevers, resulting in the mind swap. After Beevers-in-Macqueen is set free, Macqueen-in-Beevers escapes to the events of And You Will Obey Me. Once this is over, he tracks down the Seventh Doctor to help him find Beevers-in-Macqueen. They succeed and put their minds back in their proper bodies and the rest of The Two Masters plays out (again). Is that right? If so, we now also know: 1. Macqueen is responisble for Beevers' zombification, which places The Two Masters and hence And You Will Obey Me somewhere between Frontier in Space and The Deadly Assassin for Beevers (as Beevers is a later incarnation than Delgado), as he obviously isn't a 'zombie' before Macqueen tracks him down (Macqueen also makes reference to the fact that a certain Chancellor is probably about to track down the newly zombified Beevers, presumably referencing Chancellor Goth from The Deadly Assassin). 2. Bearing in mind that Macqueen-in-Beevers hasn't met the Seventh Doctor yet (at the start of The Two Masters he mentions the Doctor having a new face), we can assume that these events are set before UNIT: Dominion, where he does know the Seventh Doctor (incidentally, Dominion is earlier in the Doctor's timeline, as he doesn't recognise Macqueen in Dominion, whereas he does in The Two Masters). Even though the Masters don't remember the events of this trilogy afterwards, they would have had any previous memories while the stories were taking place, so if Dominion had already taken place for Macqueen he would have recognised him as Macqueen-in-Beevers at the start of The Two Masters. 2.1. If this is the case, then these are the earliest Macqueen stories so far. 2.2. There must be another story where Macqueen meets the Seventh Doctor, where the Seventh Doctor knows who Macqueen is but Macqueen doesn't recognise the Doctor, otherwise he wouldn't know who the Doctor is during Dominion (anyone else confused yet ).3. Macqueen mentions to Beevers that there were several other Masters he could have chosen, including 'the Snake'. This proves without doubt that this Master is post- Movie, placing him (somewhere) between Eric Roberts and Derek Jacobi, and could potentially (not definitely) have been a Time War Master (there could have been several). 3.1. There is obviously a point between The Movie and the Time War where the Time Lords resurrect the Master and give him a new set of regenerations, otherwise Macqueen couldn't exist after Roberts, and thus Jacobi and the rest couldn't exist after Macqueen. These points are only true if I've got the original sequence of events right. If not, I may have just wasted my last thirty or so minutes sorting it all out So, all in all, we've actually got a lot more spaces (I don't want to use the words 'gaps' or 'holes') in the Master's timeline. However it does mean that there could hopefully be plenty more stories to explain them (please please please!) Anything anyone wants to disagree with there? (I'm not claiming to be an expert on these matters ) Also, should I have posted this in the Master's Timeline thread? I'll let the post be moved if it's better off there In Dark Eyes 2 the Macqueen Master was expecting the Seventh Doctor. Many have previously said that's because he encountered him in Unit: Dominion but I have always said that it implies that the Macqueen Master had encountered the Seventh Doctor several times. Otherwise there would be no reason for him to expect that particular incarnation. He was surprised to see the Eighth so he had to have encountered Seven quite a few times.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jun 14, 2016 12:14:05 GMT
Well, as I say point 2 is incorrect, therefore the follow on points are also incorrect - but also, regarding 2.2, he is always going to recognise the Doctor in Dominion, becuase his earlier incarnations (both Beevers and Ainley) have already encountered him.
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Post by Whovitt on Jun 14, 2016 13:01:43 GMT
Well, as I say point 2 is incorrect, therefore the follow on points are also incorrect - but also, regarding 2.2, he is always going to recognise the Doctor in Dominion, becuase his earlier incarnations (both Beevers and Ainley) have already encountered him. Sorry, I didn't think I'd have got everything right there (no one's pointed out any problems with the rest though, so I'm happy with most of the conclusions ). However, Macqueen-in-Beevers did say that the Doctor was going through bodies faster than he had, and that the Seventh Doctor was a new incarnation for him at the start of The Two Masters, didn't he? Wouldn't that mean that Macqueen's consciousness hadn't met that Doctor yet? Or maybe just forgot about that incarnation?
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Post by constonks on Jun 14, 2016 13:39:21 GMT
There's a line in here that directly references the Master's break-in at Terserus Base in UNIT: Dominion. So it's after that. I place Two Masters as both the earliest and latest Big Finish full-cast Master story at the moment.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,067
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Post by dorney on Jun 14, 2016 13:42:15 GMT
Well, as I say point 2 is incorrect, therefore the follow on points are also incorrect - but also, regarding 2.2, he is always going to recognise the Doctor in Dominion, becuase his earlier incarnations (both Beevers and Ainley) have already encountered him. Sorry, I didn't think I'd have got everything right there (no one's pointed out any problems with the rest though, so I'm happy with most of the conclusions ). However, Macqueen-in-Beevers did say that the Doctor was going through bodies faster than he had, and that the Seventh Doctor was a new incarnation for him at the start of The Two Masters, didn't he? Wouldn't that mean that Macqueen's consciousness hadn't met that Doctor yet? Or maybe just forgot about that incarnation? Nope that's Beevers-in-Macqueen. When he meets the Doctor on the bridge of the Gorlan ship.
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Post by CookieMaster on Jun 14, 2016 13:48:46 GMT
Yeah, eat your heart out Steven Moffat!! What i would love to know is, what did Beevers dress like before? dungarees and lilac spats. Cosplay sorted
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Post by CookieMaster on Jun 14, 2016 13:55:07 GMT
There's a line in here that directly references the Master's break-in at Terserus Base in UNIT: Dominion. So it's after that. I place Two Masters as both the earliest and latest Big Finish full-cast Master story at the moment. Yeah that is pretty cool and sounds perfect to me. I did like how our Mr Dorney put the line "I anticipated your anticipation" in, it reminded me of a certain 1999 charity spoof. I must say though, all these visits to Tersurus and nobody has farted.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,067
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Post by dorney on Jun 14, 2016 14:00:28 GMT
There's a line in here that directly references the Master's break-in at Terserus Base in UNIT: Dominion. So it's after that. I place Two Masters as both the earliest and latest Big Finish full-cast Master story at the moment. Yeah that is pretty cool and sounds perfect to me. I did like how our Mr Dorney put the line "I anticipated your anticipation" in, it reminded me of a certain 1999 charity spoof. I must say though, all these visits to Tersurus and nobody has farted. I was about an inch away from including a line about the inhabitants being quite anti-social. Thought it might have been a step too far.
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