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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 12:52:00 GMT
You know, I think half the problem is this announcing of companions and other characters in the press. Frankly I preferred the Classic Who tradition of new companions being a surprise - it kept you guessing throughout stories as to whether one companion would leave and another join, and meant that the dangers in the episode felt real as companions could die or leave at any point. I can appreciate why new Doctors are announced, but companions? Better to go back to the old system and stop the destructive speculation... Chriss C. In these social media times, we'd see Matt on set through leaked photos and videos a hundred times before the series started anyway. You can keep small cameos secret - sometimes - but not a recurring character who is going to be on set a lot. Pandora's box can't be closed again on that one.
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Post by chrisscorkscrew on Jun 15, 2016 12:54:14 GMT
Bobod said: What period of the show are you referring to? All the new companions on the period I was watching the original show were in the papers beforehand, following press calls.Ah. This could be my former youth talking. I was thinking of Classic Who, but I only started watching in '87 and would have missed any media storm about new companions for the earlier Classic Doctors. Take it from me, it is far more fun to be surprised that a Lady Savage or mouthy Australian are joining the Doctor than being told of it months in advance... Chriss C.
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Post by chrisscorkscrew on Jun 15, 2016 13:09:26 GMT
You know, I think half the problem is this announcing of companions and other characters in the press. Frankly I preferred the Classic Who tradition of new companions being a surprise - it kept you guessing throughout stories as to whether one companion would leave and another join, and meant that the dangers in the episode felt real as companions could die or leave at any point. I can appreciate why new Doctors are announced, but companions? Better to go back to the old system and stop the destructive speculation... Chriss C. In these social media times, we'd see Matt on set through leaked photos and videos a hundred times before the series started anyway. You can keep small cameos secret - sometimes - but not a recurring character who is going to be on set a lot. Pandora's box can't be closed again on that one. I see your point about social media and I'm sure people who want to know stuff will find it out - and do see the point of introducing a new Doctor as it helps with the transition - but having 'introduction' programme snippets (as for Bill) or photo stories in magazines for companions just seems OTT to me and forces the knowledge of future characters on people whether they want it or not. Pandora's box is open, but every surely every secret doesn't have to come out just to make an easy headline or quick social media splash for lazy journalists and fans who can't wait? Chriss C.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jun 15, 2016 13:13:17 GMT
Bobod said: What period of the show are you referring to? All the new companions on the period I was watching the original show were in the papers beforehand, following press calls.Ah. This could be my former youth talking. I was thinking of Classic Who, but I only started watching in '87 and would have missed any media storm about new companions for the earlier Classic Doctors. Take it from me, it is far more fun to be surprised that a Lady Savage or mouthy Australian are joining the Doctor than being told of it months in advance... Chriss C. I remember Adric being announced. Don't remember the same for Nyssa and Tegan. But have seen the Tegan press call photos since. And remember Peri, Mel and Ace all being announced beforehand. I remember thinking 'oh that means Tegan must be leaving' when Peri was announced. And I remember the Amsterdam photocall - with Tegan in it - being the first I knew that Tegan hadn't left at the end of Time-Flight.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 13:20:27 GMT
In these social media times, we'd see Matt on set through leaked photos and videos a hundred times before the series started anyway. You can keep small cameos secret - sometimes - but not a recurring character who is going to be on set a lot. Pandora's box can't be closed again on that one. I see your point about social media and I'm sure people who want to know stuff will find it out - and do see the point of introducing a new Doctor as it helps with the transition - but having 'introduction' programme snippets (as for Bill) or photo stories in magazines for companions just seems OTT to me and forces the knowledge of future characters on people whether they want it or not. Pandora's box is open, but every surely every secret doesn't have to come out just to make an easy headline or quick social media splash for lazy journalists and fans who can't wait? Chriss C. Well, they don't have to watch the clip of the new companion but she's going to be on magazine covers, adverts, trailers, merchandise and all sorts before she debuts in the show proper so I'm not sure anyone wishing to completely avoid knowing a new companion is coming is living in reality. As Bobod says, it's just what happens. The show needs to let the public know there's a change, there's a hook to what comes next. Especially in an entire year off air the show needs to sporadically remind people it's coming back. Even if there wasn't the PR from the show, the press would scoop it anyway and we'd know either way - indeed Pearl Mackie's casting was revealed by the media before the official announcement and there's nothing that the Beeb can do to control that.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 15, 2016 15:45:45 GMT
Actually i think Paul has raised some good points here, sometimes you just have to tell it as it is. I'm loathed to throw any season into the mud before it's even had an opportunity to get off the ground, but there's this very nasty little trend that's been developing to the tune of what Paul has said. Unless there's a sudden swerve towards the Heaven Sent-style of storytelling, it may be that we're in for another year of throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. The Twelfth Doctor still hasn't found his feet yet and the companions are starting to become interchangeable facsimiles that can be summed up as "goofy, smarmy and almost constantly showing up the Doctor." Honestly, the solution is very simple. Big Finish managed to have it nailed almost from the get-go -- have dramatic consequences for your story and you fix everything. Kill your cast and keep them dead, show us why we should care about these characters, give us threatening villains who mean what they say and will do what they claim without hesitation. There's a reason why most, if not all Dalek and Cybermen stories during this run haven't worked. There are no stakes, give the characters something to fight for and have the audience fear that they will lose. Brilliantly put my friend you've hit the nail on the head.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 15, 2016 16:06:01 GMT
Short of cancelling the show, nothing would please you about it. Nothing. Not at all. DW needs a complete rethink. The scripts are poor, and Capaldi and Missy have fans divided. Continually killing companions and bringing them back are a nonsense. A subtle performance from the right Doctor and Master could work wonders. A companion from a different time zone isn't asking much, and a break from visual effects and sonic devices would definitely help the narrative. Missy maybe, though I think she's more accepted now, but I don't know where you got Capaldi being divisive. Almost everyone likes him, save for the usual 'I miss my Doctor (usually Tennant)´ blowhards and the fangirls who can't use him for yaoi because 'old'. The rest of the points... okay, kinda agree though I think the creative team should still be pushing the visual element hard just to prove that even on limited money you can still make great looking television. If anything, it sets an example for genre based British TV shows so that they don't overspend or get stuck trying to get funding if people say 'oh it needs x amount of pounds to be possible'.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jun 15, 2016 16:33:15 GMT
Not at all. DW needs a complete rethink. The scripts are poor, and Capaldi and Missy have fans divided. Continually killing companions and bringing them back are a nonsense. A subtle performance from the right Doctor and Master could work wonders. A companion from a different time zone isn't asking much, and a break from visual effects and sonic devices would definitely help the narrative. Missy maybe, though I think she's more accepted now, but I don't know where you got Capaldi being divisive. Almost everyone likes him, save for the usual 'I miss my Doctor (usually Tennant)´ blowhards and the fangirls who can't use him for yaoi because 'old'. The rest of the points... okay, kinda agree though I think the creative team should still be pushing the visual element hard just to prove that even on limited money you can still make great looking television. If anything, it sets an example for genre based British TV shows so that they don't overspend or get stuck trying to get funding if people say 'oh it needs x amount of pounds to be possible'. "Almost everyone likes him..." Thats not what I've been reading.
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Post by chrisscorkscrew on Jun 15, 2016 17:18:09 GMT
I see your point about social media and I'm sure people who want to know stuff will find it out - and do see the point of introducing a new Doctor as it helps with the transition - but having 'introduction' programme snippets (as for Bill) or photo stories in magazines for companions just seems OTT to me and forces the knowledge of future characters on people whether they want it or not. Pandora's box is open, but every surely every secret doesn't have to come out just to make an easy headline or quick social media splash for lazy journalists and fans who can't wait? Chriss C. Well, they don't have to watch the clip of the new companion but she's going to be on magazine covers, adverts, trailers, merchandise and all sorts before she debuts in the show proper so I'm not sure anyone wishing to completely avoid knowing a new companion is coming is living in reality. As Bobod says, it's just what happens. The show needs to let the public know there's a change, there's a hook to what comes next. Especially in an entire year off air the show needs to sporadically remind people it's coming back. Even if there wasn't the PR from the show, the press would scoop it anyway and we'd know either way - indeed Pearl Mackie's casting was revealed by the media before the official announcement and there's nothing that the Beeb can do to control that. I just don't see how all this pre-promotion differs from spoilers, and I really, really hate spoilers!
How often is it these days when a TV show can really surprise you, and isn't it wonderful when it does...?
Chriss C.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 15, 2016 20:35:52 GMT
Which is odd because in my circle. small though it may be, of long time Who fans and followers, Capaldi is generally liked, if not adored, for the simple fact that the 12th Doctor is the most classic style Doctor the revival has put forward. And this is just me speaking but it also doesn't hurt that Peter Capaldi may the finest actor to ever play the role. And again Paul I ask again, when was the last time you liked something about the revived series and what was it? Missy maybe, though I think she's more accepted now, but I don't know where you got Capaldi being divisive. Almost everyone likes him, save for the usual 'I miss my Doctor (usually Tennant)´ blowhards and the fangirls who can't use him for yaoi because 'old'. The rest of the points... okay, kinda agree though I think the creative team should still be pushing the visual element hard just to prove that even on limited money you can still make great looking television. If anything, it sets an example for genre based British TV shows so that they don't overspend or get stuck trying to get funding if people say 'oh it needs x amount of pounds to be possible'. "Almost everyone likes him..." Thats not what I've been reading.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 15, 2016 21:28:31 GMT
Missy maybe, though I think she's more accepted now, but I don't know where you got Capaldi being divisive. Almost everyone likes him, save for the usual 'I miss my Doctor (usually Tennant)´ blowhards and the fangirls who can't use him for yaoi because 'old'. The rest of the points... okay, kinda agree though I think the creative team should still be pushing the visual element hard just to prove that even on limited money you can still make great looking television. If anything, it sets an example for genre based British TV shows so that they don't overspend or get stuck trying to get funding if people say 'oh it needs x amount of pounds to be possible'. "Almost everyone likes him..." Thats not what I've been reading. Clearly you and I frequent very different forums and social media pages.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 15, 2016 22:14:33 GMT
Season 9 is one of the entire show's best seasons. Heaven Sent is one of the best episodes ever, and The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar and The Zygon Invasion/Inversion were both amazing. Me was a cool character, and her episodes were always fun even if they weren't always amazing. Really, the only bad episode was Sleep No More. With the way things have been going for the past decade, I am entirely confident that Moffat has a good reason to bring back this minor side character.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 15, 2016 22:15:32 GMT
Well, they don't have to watch the clip of the new companion but she's going to be on magazine covers, adverts, trailers, merchandise and all sorts before she debuts in the show proper so I'm not sure anyone wishing to completely avoid knowing a new companion is coming is living in reality. As Bobod says, it's just what happens. The show needs to let the public know there's a change, there's a hook to what comes next. Especially in an entire year off air the show needs to sporadically remind people it's coming back. Even if there wasn't the PR from the show, the press would scoop it anyway and we'd know either way - indeed Pearl Mackie's casting was revealed by the media before the official announcement and there's nothing that the Beeb can do to control that. I just don't see how all this pre-promotion differs from spoilers, and I really, really hate spoilers!
How often is it these days when a TV show can really surprise you, and isn't it wonderful when it does...?
Chriss C.
Telling us the cast isn't a spoiler. We still have absolutely no idea what will happen in any of this season's episodes.
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Post by dasmaniac on Jun 16, 2016 1:30:58 GMT
I don't know who this guy but I'm very concerned that they're bringing back Frank Cottrell Boyce. In the Forest of the Night was painfully bad. It had such a unique concept and utterly ran it into the ground.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 16, 2016 3:15:16 GMT
I don't know who this guy but I'm very concerned that they're bringing back Frank Cottrell Boyce. In the Forest of the Night was painfully bad. It had such a unique concept and utterly ran it into the ground. Kill The Moon wasn't great either, but they brought Peter Harness back and he wrote the incredible Zygon Incasion/Inversion. There's nothing wrong with giving a writer a second chance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 4:18:52 GMT
I don't know who this guy but I'm very concerned that they're bringing back Frank Cottrell Boyce. In the Forest of the Night was painfully bad. It had such a unique concept and utterly ran it into the ground. Kill The Moon wasn't great either, but they brought Peter Harness back and he wrote the incredible Zygon Incasion/Inversion. There's nothing wrong with giving a writer a second chance. I totally agree. We should give F.C.B a second chance, However that does not mean we can't be very cautious when it comes to that episode.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 4:35:50 GMT
I don't know who this guy but I'm very concerned that they're bringing back Frank Cottrell Boyce. In the Forest of the Night was painfully bad. It had such a unique concept and utterly ran it into the ground. Kill The Moon wasn't great either, but they brought Peter Harness back and he wrote the incredible Zygon Incasion/Inversion. There's nothing wrong with giving a writer a second chance. I thought the Zygon story was awful, an interminable 90 minutes that really only lives in my memory because of one great speech by Capaldi and quite a good performance from Jenna. I could list things wrong with it all day, but this really isn't the time or the place.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 16, 2016 8:09:47 GMT
I don't know who this guy but I'm very concerned that they're bringing back Frank Cottrell Boyce. In the Forest of the Night was painfully bad. It had such a unique concept and utterly ran it into the ground. I actually really enjoyed it. I agree with Moffat that it was a nicely poetic episode and one that will go up in people's estimations over time.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jun 16, 2016 14:46:22 GMT
I don't know who this guy but I'm very concerned that they're bringing back Frank Cottrell Boyce. In the Forest of the Night was painfully bad. It had such a unique concept and utterly ran it into the ground. I actually really enjoyed it. I agree with Moffat that it was a nicely poetic episode and one that will go up in people's estimations over time. Yeah, I don't get what people have against it. I found it to be a pretty average episode. It wasn't amazing, but it certainly wasn't bad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 23:26:57 GMT
Kill The Moon wasn't great either, but they brought Peter Harness back and he wrote the incredible Zygon Incasion/Inversion. There's nothing wrong with giving a writer a second chance. I thought the Zygon story was awful, an interminable 90 minutes that really only lives in my memory because of one great speech by Capaldi and quite a good performance from Jenna. I could list things wrong with it all day, but this really isn't the time or the place. I was talking with some service guys who had seen the episode and they were really, really angry at how useless the UNIT soldiers had been portrayed. After rewatching the two-parter recently, I can't help but feel they have a right to be insulted, UNIT has never been that bad taking orders or killing people. My main issue with the episodes was and still is that they didn't go far enough with the concept. They should have pushed that idea to its very limit and shown just how nasty it could all be. The excellently performed duet in the last ten minutes is the only thing I think it will really ever be remembered for.
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