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Post by johnnybear on Jun 18, 2016 8:39:52 GMT
This has been my favourite of the Doctor/Dalek stories for BF and probably my favourite Big Finisher to date! I loved the references to the earlier adventures like Dalek Invasion of Earth and the Dalek history being altered by this plague! Even the Thals get a look in with Peter Davison's old mate, Christopher Blake taking his one and only appearance in a BF before his untimely death in 2005 I believe! This would have happened somewhere after Time-Flight and Arc of Infinity and also does not feature Davros which was a big step to include! This was a fan audio from the eighties too I believe although I don't know too much about that one! JB
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 18, 2016 9:00:22 GMT
Originally i think it's one of Nick Briggs audio visuals who i think played the Doctor although i could be wrong, Briggs then adapted it for Big Finish.
This is a great story my only issue is the ending which feels kinda sudden & makes very little sense barring that i rate it a enjoyable 8/10
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 9:08:48 GMT
I can say that the original Audio Visuals play is a very different animal from the Big Finish adaptation. Chalk and cheese as to moths and bees. It deals with an alien colony on Analyas VII that appears to have been set up for the benefit of hopeful refugees, but is actually a massive covert operation controlled by the Daleks from behind-the-scenes. They're using the population in their ongoing genetic experiments, hoping to develop something that will immunise them against the Mutant Phase while it spreads across their homeworld. In the original, the Doctor (Nick Briggs) is murdered after 'Episode One', Ria (Liz Knight) is sent to a concentration camp as an illegal immigrant -- despite her protests that it's against intergalactic law -- and Greg (Gary Russell) ends up a victim of the subterfuge on Analyas VII. The cliffhangers are as follows: - The first has the Doctor shot down and killed, out of hand, by a Dalek assassination squad;
- The second has the Daleks report that the infestation on Skaro is now unstoppable, just as one of the control room's drones is corrupted (a touch of the dinner scene from Alien there), and;
- The final is the dramatic reveal of the Dalek Emperor, who refuses to use the inoculation provided by Ptolem and declaring him a traitor to their cause for collaborating with the Doctor.
Both are rather exciting and have their own virtues, the 1986 story feels like the kind of tale that would have been broadcast with Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant and the 2000 adaptation makes for a very nice update that weaves the narrative into an established canonical era. I'd put up a link to the original four-parter if I knew where exactly the AVs stood in terms of circulating the tapes.
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Post by acousticwolf on Jun 18, 2016 9:55:20 GMT
I'd put up a link to it if I knew where exactly the AVs stand in terms of circulating the tapes. Unfortunately this is a problem we've come across before and haven't yet been able to get an answer from Nick regarding copyright and distribution. Cheers Tony
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 10:06:36 GMT
I'd put up a link to it if I knew where exactly the AVs stand in terms of circulating the tapes. Unfortunately this is a problem we've come across before and haven't yet been able to get an answer from Nick regarding copyright and distribution. Cheers Tony That's a shame, but certainly not unexpected. I remember Gary Russell saying in an interview at one point that they wouldn't re-release their original efforts because it would have been difficult, if not impossible to remaster them to the quality that people expect from a professional production and that they have their own little licencing issues anyway. Maybe because of Nick Briggs as an original incarnation? Maybe because of when they were produced? I hope it's not because of some sense of embarrassment because they really are wonderfully assembled little stories.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 18, 2016 10:15:33 GMT
I have the Doctor Who Adventures version. I enjoyed it at the time, yet for some reason I decided to not buy any Big Finish audios until years later. The Mutant Phase is still one of my favourites.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jun 18, 2016 12:35:52 GMT
Interesting history, this one.
First it was an Audio-Visual.
Then it was a Big Finish play.
Then it was cut down (a bit like the "Genesis of the Daleks" LP) to give away to Doctor Who Adventures listeners.
Then a revised cut of the first episode was given away with something else with Doctor Who Magazine.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 18, 2016 13:08:00 GMT
Coming Soon The Mutant Phase: The Briggs Cut!!!
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 18, 2016 13:08:57 GMT
Did anyone else find the ending to be a little anti-climatic?
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jun 18, 2016 13:10:03 GMT
Based on everything that had gone before the ending was very sudden and confusing
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 18, 2016 13:14:08 GMT
Based on everything that had gone before the ending was very sudden and confusing That's my only gripe with the story it delivers three & three quarters episodes of brilliant audio drama which is let down by a very confusing anti-climax, surely when Briggs was rewriting this story he must have thought "this ending needs more work".
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Post by seeley on Jun 18, 2016 19:56:01 GMT
I can say that the original Audio Visuals play is a very different animal from the Big Finish adaptation, it deals with an alien colony on Analyas VII that appears to have been set up for the benefit of hopeful refugees, but is actually a massive covert operation being controlled by the Daleks from behind the scenes. They're using the population in their ongoing genetic experiments, hoping to develop something that will immunise them against the Mutant Phase while it spreads across their homeworld. In the original, the Doctor (Nick Briggs) is murdered after episode one, Ria (Liz Knight) is sent to a concentration camp as an illegal immigrant despite her protests that it's against intergalactic law and Greg (Gary Russell) ends up a victim of the subterfuge on Analyas VII. The first cliffhanger has the Doctor shot down and killed by a Dalek assassination squad, the second has the Daleks report that the infestation on Skaro is now unstoppable just as one of the control room's drones is corrupted and the final is the dramatic reveal of the Dalek Emperor who refuses to use the inoculation provided by Ptolem, declaring him a traitor to their cause for collaborating with the Doctor. Both are rather exciting and have their own virtues, the 1986 story feels like the kind of tale that would have been broadcast with Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant and the 2000 adaptation makes for a very nice update that weaves the narrative into an established canonical era. I'd put up a link to the original four-parter if I knew where exactly the AVs stood in terms of circulating the tapes. It's also Greg's swansong, featuring one of the most bizarre companion-departures that I can think of. The AVs did weird things with the companions. Poor Ria's departure was absolutely abysmal. It's also worth noting that the original Mutant Phase continues a strand from the first AV Dalek play, The Time Ravagers, concerning the Dalek's continued tampering with their own genetics, in the hopes of making themselves time-sensitive. If memory serves, this comes up again in Planet of Lies. Anyhow, Nick Briggs has described the original Mutant Phase as "a bit of a dog's dinner," and I'm inclined to agree. It's not actively bad, and its ideas are fascinating, but it lacks a certain sparkle and fails to cohere. There's also a rather embarrassing bit were the Doctor construes a holstered gun as inherently threatening. The BF Mutant Phase I quite enjoyed. It makes much better use of the core idea, and even manages to make the causal-loop trope, so often conducive to lazy plotting, work.
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Post by johnnybear on Jun 18, 2016 21:02:59 GMT
It was nice to hear The Robomen once again after their one appearance in the original series back in 1964! JB
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Post by seeley on Jun 19, 2016 2:58:10 GMT
If you think Ria's was horrific, you should hear what Nigel Fairs had in store for Truman had they gone to a fifth season. Honestly as it stands, he's the one companion that got it the easiest as that planet in Geopath feels as though it's moving towards a better future, I'm not sure that the Briggs!Doctor would have stayed around for much longer following that whole arc with Justyce. Ah yes, Terrorist Truman... His was a lucky escape. It's interesting to see how EU companions fare in comparison to their TV counterparts. Fandom reacted hard against that aspect of the Classic Series, with Benny being a notable exception.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 5:29:06 GMT
If you think Ria's was horrific, you should hear what Nigel Fairs had in store for Truman had they gone to a fifth season. Honestly as it stands, he's the one companion that got it the easiest as that planet in Geopath feels as though it's moving towards a better future, I'm not sure that the Briggs!Doctor would have stayed around for much longer following that whole arc with Justyce. Ah yes, Terrorist Truman... His was a lucky escape. It's interesting to see how EU companions fare in comparison to their TV counterparts. Fandom reacted hard against that aspect of the Classic Series, with Benny being a notable exception. The death of a companion was (and still kind of is) regarded as preferable to the alternative because it's unlikely that you will get the opportunity to revisit them again (up until the recent revolving door policy) and it's often quite anticlimactic to have them simply depart for other climes. For instance, there's a great deal of poetry in Sara Kingdom's post-television life because we know that she will meet an altogether rather unpleasant end. She might be my favourite companion from that part of Who as a result because that final death was a release, she never truly managed to reconcile the cold-blooded murder of her brother. Brett haunted her in a way that we wouldn't see in other companions. Had she simply left the TARDIS, I don't think those later Companion Chronicles would have had the same punch that they do now. The multiple departures of Peri are rather interesting to look at via the EU as well. Outside of the Target novelisation, she first reappears in a short story in DWM called Reunion where she and what sounds like the Seventh Doctor part once again on bitter terms. Two years following that tale, Colin Baker's The Age of Chaos had the Sixth Doctor visit her grandchildren on Krontep with Frobisher; Peri herself cameoing at the very end of the story as she examines the TARDIS. A year after that, Steve Lyons semi-retconned her apparent survival by having the Doctor's memories of his immediate past and future erased by the Time Lords immediately following his Trial so that he only remembers that something terrible happened to her. A year after that, she appears in Bad Therapy as Queen Gilliam of the Brown, returning to Earth with a slap and a burning resentment of the Doctor for abandoning her forever on Thoros Beta. Fifteen years later, a version of her who only remembers travelling with the Doctor once gets caught up with both his sixth and fifth iterations in a plot that reveals multiple versions of her exist throughout the continuum. Finally, three years after that the Doctor visits Peri on Krontep where he's implicated in the murder of King Yrcarnos, a week after being wed to his new queen. In the great cosmic scheme of things, there's Mindwarp!Peri (who died on Thoros Beta), Target!Peri (who went on to become a manager on the pro-wrestling circuit with Yrcarnos) and Trial!Peri (who survived her ordeal and became a queen). Branching off from that third timeline is Reunion!Peri (who never forgave the Doctor and remained on Krontep), Chaos!Peri (who became a grandmother), Gillum!Peri (who turned up in Bad Therapy and returned to Earth), Piscon!Peri (who was dumped back on 2009 Earth) and Widow!Peri (who has rejoined the Doctor on his wanderings). No one seemed to quite agree on what had happened to her, thus Nev Fountain decided to amalgamate all of these disparate scenarios together. I don't think any other companion has really had such a rollercoaster ride in terms of what happened after they left the TARDIS. Her death and subsequent revival led to quite a bit of revision, so fans seem to be able to cope with a companion just decamping, but a companion dying and then being revealed to be okay warrants quite a lot of scrutiny. EU exclusive companions like Izzy, Chris, Fey or Fitz seem to get rather tame endings by comparison with a few exceptions here and there. However, they rarely if ever simply just up and go like Dodo, Ben or Polly. It's not until you get into the Eighth Doctor's life that you have to start seriously compiling a list of fatalities.
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Post by omega on Jun 19, 2016 6:07:12 GMT
EU exclusive companions like Izzy, Chris, Fey or Fitz seem to get rather tame endings by comparison with a few exceptions here and there. However, they rarely if ever simply just up and go like Dodo, Ben or Polly. It's not until you get into the Eighth Doctor's life that you have to start seriously compiling a list of fatalities. Anyone apart from the Doctor remember Gus Goodman, a short-lived companion of the Fifth Doctor in DWM? Sam Jones in the EDA novels, unsure how much of her was a manipulation. Compassion, forced to go on the run from the Time Lords because they essentially wanted her to breed a new type of Battle TARDIS (then there's the issue of the randomiser in Fall of Yquatine).
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Post by mrperson on Jun 20, 2016 15:23:31 GMT
Originally i think it's one of Nick Briggs audio visuals who i think played the Doctor although i could be wrong, Briggs then adapted it for Big Finish. This is a great story my only issue is the ending which feels kinda sudden & makes very little sense barring that i rate it a enjoyable 8/10 It made as much sense to me as any paradox story can. The way I saw it, the episode was an attempt to look at how a bootstrap paradox is created; basically, it's a suggestion that while a completed bootstrap paradox contains an insurmountable chicken-and-egg problem, perhaps it wouldn't look quite that way before all elements are present. In other words, that either the chicken OR the egg really does come first, in the first loop of the paradox (its creation).
Here, if I recall, the ending was that the Doctor realized that the Daleks already knew about the infected Daleks and were taking steps to neutralize them. If he interfered and let them use the serum, the serum would fail to eradicate the infection, and that would lead to the Mutant Phase creatures he'd encountered in the future. So he destroyed the serum (or did he convince the emperor not to use it?), the Daleks dealt with infected ones, and the Mutant Phase couldn't come into existence.
So, how'd he previously see Mutant Phase creatures in the beginning, which sight lead him eventually to the creation of the paradox, which he then foiled? I don't know. Paradoxes don't make sense, that's the point...as he says.
So it makes sense to me, but only insasmuch as any time travel paradox can. Which is not much, but at least I think I understand how the moving pieces are supposed to work.
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Post by mrperson on Jun 20, 2016 15:25:41 GMT
Anyway, for me, this is 9.5/10 - 10/10.
One of my favorites, though it seems other people don't give it quite so much love. I think a proper paradox story has got to be extremely hard to pull off well, and this was one of them that worked.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 20, 2016 15:27:16 GMT
Originally i think it's one of Nick Briggs audio visuals who i think played the Doctor although i could be wrong, Briggs then adapted it for Big Finish. This is a great story my only issue is the ending which feels kinda sudden & makes very little sense barring that i rate it a enjoyable 8/10 It made as much sense to me as any paradox story can. The way I saw it, the episode was an attempt to look at how a bootstrap paradox is created; basically, it's a suggestion that while a completed bootstrap paradox contains an insurmountable chicken-and-egg problem, perhaps it wouldn't look quite that way before all elements are present. In other words, that either the chicken OR the egg really does come first, in the first loop of the paradox (its creation).
Here, if I recall, the ending was that the Doctor realized that the Daleks already knew about the infected Daleks and were taking steps to neutralize them. If he interfered and let them use the serum, the serum would fail to eradicate the infection, and that would lead to the Mutant Phase creatures he'd encountered in the future. So he destroyed the serum, the Daleks dealt with infected ones, and the Mutant Phase couldn't come into existence.
So, how'd he previously see Mutant Phase creatures in the beginning, which sight lead him eventually to the creation of the paradox, which he then foiled? I don't know. Paradoxes don't make sense, that's the point...as he says.
So it makes sense to me, but only insasmuch as any time travel paradox can. Which is not much, but at least I think I understand how the moving pieces are supposed to work.
Now you see how you explained it actually makes sense, why couldn't Nick make it a clearer narrative like you did. Cheers mate, I'm going to listen to this tonight & take on board your comments.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 0:00:13 GMT
It made as much sense to me as any paradox story can. The way I saw it, the episode was an attempt to look at how a bootstrap paradox is created; basically, it's a suggestion that while a completed bootstrap paradox contains an insurmountable chicken-and-egg problem, perhaps it wouldn't look quite that way before all elements are present. In other words, that either the chicken OR the egg really does come first, in the first loop of the paradox (its creation).
Here, if I recall, the ending was that the Doctor realized that the Daleks already knew about the infected Daleks and were taking steps to neutralize them. If he interfered and let them use the serum, the serum would fail to eradicate the infection, and that would lead to the Mutant Phase creatures he'd encountered in the future. So he destroyed the serum, the Daleks dealt with infected ones, and the Mutant Phase couldn't come into existence.
So, how'd he previously see Mutant Phase creatures in the beginning, which sight lead him eventually to the creation of the paradox, which he then foiled? I don't know. Paradoxes don't make sense, that's the point...as he says.
So it makes sense to me, but only insasmuch as any time travel paradox can. Which is not much, but at least I think I understand how the moving pieces are supposed to work.
Now you see how you explained it actually makes sense, why couldn't Nick make it a clearer narrative like you did. Cheers mate, I'm going to listen to this tonight & take on board your comments. Oh, hey... It's the same kind of paradox the guerilla fighters from the alternate timeline in Day of the Daleks faced.
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