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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 21, 2016 7:22:30 GMT
Now you see how you explained it actually makes sense, why couldn't Nick make it a clearer narrative like you did. Cheers mate, I'm going to listen to this tonight & take on board your comments. Oh, hey... It's the same kind of paradox the guerilla fighters from the alternate timeline in Day of the Daleks faced. Ha...it is too well spotted my friend. Blimey theres lots of paradoxical bafflegab in Doctor Who
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 9:17:08 GMT
Oh, hey... It's the same kind of paradox the guerilla fighters from the alternate timeline in Day of the Daleks faced. Ha...it is too well spotted my friend. Blimey theres lots of paradoxical bafflegab in Doctor Who You really have to start wondering how much of history still travels in a linear fashion after the Doctor's traipsing across the timestreams... Maybe all those earthshaking, significant events that forever alter humanity's fate gravitate towards the two centuries or so before and after the planet's second millennium because of all the mucking about that he and travellers like him have done with their transcendental shenanigans.
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Post by johnnybear on Jun 23, 2016 18:26:45 GMT
Well The Doctor has visited two apocalyptic earths of the far future in The Sontaran Experiment and The Mysterious Planet. Whether they are meant to be the same period of time or even the same reality has yet to be explained! In fact wasn't the Ravalox incident removed from the web of time? JB
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ljwilson
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It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Oct 28, 2020 16:44:50 GMT
Apologies for the thread bump. One thing that really stands out when listening to The Mutant Phase again is how good it sounds in comparison to some of its predecessors, and this is only MR: no.15. But, that is the reason why I love most of the early ones as they aren't quite as polished.
The story is great too, if a little complicated, but I've never really minded not fully understanding something if it is enjoyable.
I quite like the different factions in this one; the toff and his working class companion hiding away in the huge damp underground bunker, the Thal scientists working with their mortal enemies, daleks fighting freedom fighters in wasp-infested corn (rape) fields..and the crew of the space ship that just about survives the swarm.
Very atmospheric and needs concentration to get the best out of it. 8 out of 10.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Oct 28, 2020 17:57:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2020 21:59:02 GMT
The Mutant Phase is still one of my favourite MR releases, even though the ending could probably have been reworked a little bit. The Mutant Phase is a strong Nick Briggs story that I am very fond of. I will have to dig this out over the weekend for another listen now somebody has bumped this thread. (Thanks!)
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Post by number13 on Oct 29, 2020 1:16:44 GMT
I thought this was a brilliant story, full of good characters and settings and with a plot that's enjoyably complicated, understandable and mystifying plus lots of nods to classic stories and continuity. And which shows the Daleks for what they always are, but in a new way.
As a mere human, I thought the ending made perfect sense if you work events back through the story... to the point where it suddenly doesn't make sense!!
Only the Doctor could really understand it completely, but that's sort of the point isn't it? He's a Time Lord and sees Time and paradoxes in a way that we can't, and I always enjoy it when writers emphasis that side of him. As in the ending to 'The Dinosaur Invasion' for example, where the Doctor can 'swim' against reversing Time because he is inherently different, not just a very very clever scientist loaded with advanced technology.
One of Nick Briggs' best stories imo.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2020 2:59:10 GMT
Funny how we return to old ideas, isn't it? Whether directly or by osmosis, it's never quite drawn from the palette of colours in exactly the way it once could have been, yet The Mutant Phase feels as relevant now for the polycarbide terrors as it did December 2000. Putting the two Audio Visuals remakes side-by-side, Sword of Orion and The Mutant Phase, his first(!) Dalek entry to Big Finish is the one that's undergone the most metamorphosis from the original script. It's almost like comparing chalk and cheese. Wasps and Daleks. Mind you, it's still got that vein of interest in hijacked ecosystems that popped up in the young Messr Briggs works of the time. Another of his scripts, The Secret of Nematoda, dealt with similar themes from the other side of Phase (think The Mutants as done through the lens of The Ballad of Halo Jones) and some of that residual fascination looks as though it's found its way into here. I don't think we really get a sense of the mechanics behind the Dalek incubation process (i.e. "How are little Dalek mutants grown?") before this tale. There's a wonderful wisdom to how it's written too. It's got more than a few subversions behind it. The revisit of The Dalek Invasion of Earth is far from being a retread, showing us a period in that conflict as a genuine historical event. Something difficult to be caught up in and eloped from, rather than singlehandedly fixed. Likewise, the cliffhanger for "Part Two" could have gone with the classic ultimatum of the companion in jeopardy, but... It decides to be a bit more daring. Neither the Doctor, nor Nyssa actually get out of the cliffhanger. It marks a genuine turning point in the course of the story. One in the Daleks' favour. The tension throughout is great. (Also, as a bit of novelty, this was the rejected cover for the Big Finish release. Featuring a chap we're probably a bit more familiar with nowadays...)
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Post by polly on Oct 29, 2020 21:03:40 GMT
Funny how we return to old ideas, isn't it? Whether directly or by osmosis, it's never quite drawn from the palette of colours in exactly the way it once could have been, yet The Mutant Phase feels as relevant now for the polycarbide terrors as it did December 2000. Putting the two Audio Visuals remakes side-by-side, Sword of Orion and The Mutant Phase, his first(!) Dalek entry to Big Finish is the one that's undergone the most metamorphosis from the original script. It's almost like comparing chalk and cheese. Wasps and Daleks. Mind you, it's still got that vein of interest in hijacked ecosystems that popped up in the young Messr Briggs works of the time. Another of his scripts, The Secret of Nematoda, dealt with similar themes from the other side of Phase (think The Mutants as done through the lens of The Ballad of Halo Jones) and some of that residual fascination looks as though it's found its way into here. I don't think we really get a sense of the mechanics behind the Dalek incubation process (i.e. "How are little Dalek mutants grown?") before this tale. There's a wonderful wisdom to how it's written too. It's got more than a few subversions behind it. The revisit of The Dalek Invasion of Earth is far from being a retread, showing us a period in that conflict as a genuine historical event. Something difficult to be caught up in and eloped from, rather than singlehandedly fixed. Likewise, the cliffhanger for "Part Two" could have gone with the classic ultimatum of the companion in jeopardy, but... It decides to be a bit more daring. Neither the Doctor, nor Nyssa actually get out of the cliffhanger. It marks a genuine turning point in the course of the story. One in the Daleks' favour. The tension throughout is great. (Also, as a bit of novelty, this was the rejected cover for the Big Finish release. Featuring a chap we're probably a bit more familiar with nowadays...) What a hideous cover. I'm glad they didn't go with that. I wholeheartedly agree with the bold text above. We all know that nine times out of ten, the Doctor and Nyssa are not going to be killed or maimed by whatever perilous cliffhanger they find themselves in. To me, the better kind of Big Finish cliffhanger is, like you say, a turning point. Something intriguing that launches the story into its next phase.
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Post by grinch on Oct 29, 2020 21:10:37 GMT
I really should give this a re listen sometime. I feel like it’ll be appropriate considering I suspect next years Dalek Universe may tie into it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2020 23:40:55 GMT
Funny how we return to old ideas, isn't it? Whether directly or by osmosis, it's never quite drawn from the palette of colours in exactly the way it once could have been, yet The Mutant Phase feels as relevant now for the polycarbide terrors as it did December 2000. Putting the two Audio Visuals remakes side-by-side, Sword of Orion and The Mutant Phase, his first(!) Dalek entry to Big Finish is the one that's undergone the most metamorphosis from the original script. It's almost like comparing chalk and cheese. Wasps and Daleks. Mind you, it's still got that vein of interest in hijacked ecosystems that popped up in the young Messr Briggs works of the time. Another of his scripts, The Secret of Nematoda, dealt with similar themes from the other side of Phase (think The Mutants as done through the lens of The Ballad of Halo Jones) and some of that residual fascination looks as though it's found its way into here. I don't think we really get a sense of the mechanics behind the Dalek incubation process (i.e. "How are little Dalek mutants grown?") before this tale. There's a wonderful wisdom to how it's written too. It's got more than a few subversions behind it. The revisit of The Dalek Invasion of Earth is far from being a retread, showing us a period in that conflict as a genuine historical event. Something difficult to be caught up in and eloped from, rather than singlehandedly fixed. Likewise, the cliffhanger for "Part Two" could have gone with the classic ultimatum of the companion in jeopardy, but... It decides to be a bit more daring. Neither the Doctor, nor Nyssa actually get out of the cliffhanger. It marks a genuine turning point in the course of the story. One in the Daleks' favour. The tension throughout is great. (Also, as a bit of novelty, this was the rejected cover for the Big Finish release. Featuring a chap we're probably a bit more familiar with nowadays...) What a hideous cover. I'm glad they didn't go with that. I wholeheartedly agree with the bold text above. We all know that nine times out of ten, the Doctor and Nyssa are not going to be killed or maimed by whatever perilous cliffhanger they find themselves in. To me, the better kind of Big Finish cliffhanger is, like you say, a turning point. Something intriguing that launches the story into its next phase. There's a very, very good redesign for the Emperor floating around which has slipped into my mind's eye over the years. Done by a chap called Mechmaster. Half-TV21, half- Evil; let's see if I can find a decent image of it... It's how I tended to picture the fellow in question, circa his Big Finish years. Yeah, and it tends to be much more rewarding for the listener as well. Tartarus, for instance, came in two solid 50-minute blocks, but if you separate each part at the end(ish) of "Track 6" -- you can still get your three four-parter cliffhangers without having to warp the story. I think that if you end up spoiled for choice on what cliffhanger to hit at the right moment, that tends to be a good sign.
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Post by slithe on Oct 30, 2020 10:49:41 GMT
I've recently re-listened to this and I think it hasn't aged too badly in the past 20 years (that is more of the worrying thing - it doesn't seem that long ago). Whatever you might think about the story itself, you can't fault the ambition of BF with these early Dalek Stories - after the epic invasion of Gallifrey in The Apocalypse Element, this one continues to push the boundaries. I also suspect it will have some influence on the animated Daleks! series that is due out next month.
The timey-whimey paradox element is probably better served now as we've seen this more with the TV series than at time of release. Davison comes across well in this and has good interplay with Sutton. You get the feeling that everyone has found their feet with the releases and things are hitting their stride. I thought it was a good release that rounded off an impressive first year for BF. I still like the revisit of Dalek Occupied Earth - it tends to always be 'The Dalek Invasion of the UK' (or mostly England/Home Counties) that is the focus. Davison's sarcasm to the Roboman is also great here and I am glad that future releases would pick up on this trait.
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Post by polly on Oct 30, 2020 21:28:41 GMT
There's a very, very good redesign for the Emperor floating around which has slipped into my mind's eye over the years. Done by a chap called Mechmaster. Half-TV21, half- Evil; let's see if I can find a decent image of it... It's how I tended to picture the fellow in question, circa his Big Finish years. Yeah, and it tends to be much more rewarding for the listener as well. Tartarus, for instance, came in two solid 50-minute blocks, but if you separate each part at the end(ish) of "Track 6" -- you can still get your three four-parter cliffhangers without having to warp the story. I think that if you end up spoiled for choice on what cliffhanger to hit at the right moment, that tends to be a good sign. That Emperor is definitely better, but I think I prefer the New Series version more. I am usually more a fan of the classic series, but I just like this design. It makes the Emperor distinct and menacing from the sheer scale.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2020 4:28:17 GMT
There's a very, very good redesign for the Emperor floating around which has slipped into my mind's eye over the years. Done by a chap called Mechmaster. Half-TV21, half- Evil; let's see if I can find a decent image of it... It's how I tended to picture the fellow in question, circa his Big Finish years. Yeah, and it tends to be much more rewarding for the listener as well. Tartarus, for instance, came in two solid 50-minute blocks, but if you separate each part at the end(ish) of "Track 6" -- you can still get your three four-parter cliffhangers without having to warp the story. I think that if you end up spoiled for choice on what cliffhanger to hit at the right moment, that tends to be a good sign. That Emperor is definitely better, but I think I prefer the New Series version more. I am usually more a fan of the classic series, but I just like this design. It makes the Emperor distinct and menacing from the sheer scale. Yeah, that distinctive tripod of massive sensor globes with a translucent tank beneath the massive dome instantly says regal. I haven't encountered a classic series Dalek yet that was mobile, but there's something about NuWho Daleks at conventions which just makes you take a step back. They've got presence. A deliberate sense of energy behind them as they move. I try to keep behind them just as an instinctive reflex.
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Post by polly on Oct 31, 2020 5:33:02 GMT
Yeah, that distinctive tripod of massive sensor globes with a translucent tank beneath the massive dome instantly says regal. I haven't encountered a classic series Dalek yet that was mobile, but there's something about NuWho Daleks at conventions which just makes you take a step back. They've got presence. A deliberate sense of energy behind them as they move. I try to keep behind them just as an instinctive reflex. Yeah, outside of the Paradigm debacle, the new series did a great job with the Dalek look overall.
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Post by slithe on Oct 31, 2020 9:19:18 GMT
I'll always have a soft spot for the Emperor in Evil... I loved the John Peel novelisation of the story and his extra details in the Introduction seemed to bring the story in line with the wishes of the 1960s production team that it would be the 'Final End' for the Daleks. I've always imagined it that way - the Daleks end up exterminating themselves in a civil war (the irony!)
Really wish a crate of episodes would turn up with Evil in there...
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Post by mark687 on Jan 14, 2021 20:53:12 GMT
Nick Briggs 1st attempt at a Dalek Invasion/ Evil of Homage and in principle should work but once again wrong Doctor pick. This has to have been chosen for the easy flow and conviction of 6th maybe even as an idea for 8th in mind and he's got 5th's ponderous delivery on temporal technobabble.
1st half is very strong particularly Karl and the other survivors but once the penny drops the 2nd half strolls along to the inevitable and glib ending.
3/5
mark687
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Post by Kestrel on Mar 27, 2021 19:46:04 GMT
- "Do I look liek a man who's gotten a good night's sleep?" This is what they call a character-establishing line, right? Too relatable.
Honestly I did not expect this to be a Dalek story. For whatever reason, I just don't associate Daleks with the word, "mutant." (I know, I know.) - Love the mystery in the first episode with the people (who are later revealed to be Kaleds working with the Daleks) waiting for the Doctor and monitoring his movements through time.
- I do kind of wonder about the Doctor popping up in the middle of the Dalek invasion of Earth. It seems like a great pretense for some timey-wimey nonsense with the 1st Doctor, but they wound up going in a totally different direction instead.
- I dunno, several of these vocal performances feel... disinterested. Almost apathetic. Mostly from the supporting cast, but even Nyssa sounds checked-out on occasion.
- So there was a damaged dalek, who was infected by an insect that got inside its casing... but how was it able to transmit this infection to other Daleks? Do Daleks ever come out of their shells? Do the mutants... socialize? And, actually, if it's a genetic mutation, are they implying that the Daleks... mate? Physically? Eww....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 9:59:35 GMT
This story was my introduction to Nyssa. It laid the foundations for my journey of watching her.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2022 7:47:52 GMT
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