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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jul 2, 2016 21:30:02 GMT
Someone has removed their vote!!! It was 12 - 8, its now 12 - 7 ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 21:51:34 GMT
Someone has removed their vote!!! It was 12 - 8, its now 12 - 7 ? That would be me. After reading charleshuriden's post, it convinced me that they are two completely different writers that are both great(In my opinion), but for very different reasons. As he said, it's like comparing Apples to Oranges.
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Post by Ela on Jul 3, 2016 4:49:34 GMT
You could vote for Moffat just to even up the votes more. As I said earlier in the thread, I don't really think it's a fair comparison, as they were different writers for different eras. So the poll is not useful, in my opinion.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jul 3, 2016 13:44:46 GMT
You could vote for Moffat just to even up the votes more. As I said earlier in the thread, I don't really think it's a fair comparison, as they were different writers for different eras. So the poll is not useful, in my opinion. I don't agree. I never saw the original transmissions for alot off Holmes. It wasn't until the 80's that I saw all Pertwee on VHS, and even later the rest on dvd. Holmes may have written for a different era, but they still stand up todays standard and are even better than Moffats current stuff.
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Post by elkawho on Jul 3, 2016 14:10:28 GMT
I refuse to vote. I agree that they are completely different from each other. They are 2 people with different styles of writing, different eras, different voices. I love most of Holmes' episodes, and while I agree that Moffat's work is much more uneven, he has written some of the very best Doctor Who as well (IMO). This just seems like a thread to allow for some intense Moffat-bashing.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 3, 2016 14:24:06 GMT
You could vote for Moffat just to even up the votes more. As I said earlier in the thread, I don't really think it's a fair comparison, as they were different writers for different eras. So the poll is not useful, in my opinion. I don't agree. I never saw the original transmissions for alot off Holmes. It wasn't until the 80's that I saw all Pertwee on VHS, and even later the rest on dvd. Holmes may have written for a different era, but they still stand up todays standard and are even better than Moffats current stuff. But if your talking about standing the Test of Time, I could conceive that
Empty Child/The Doctor Dances
Blink
Listen
Heaven Sent
will always be watched and remarked as having an air of timeless quality, just as many Holmes stories are viewed as now.
As other people have said its comparing apples and oranges though
Regards
mark687
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Post by Timelord007 on Jul 3, 2016 15:04:08 GMT
Robert Holmes all the way, far superior writer in story telling & pacing, didn't hold back on the horror & wasn't afraid to kill off characters.
Moffat uses gimmicky arcs that never quite work, goes for timey wimey slush endings, can't really kill off characters & creates panto like supporting characters like Nardole.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jul 3, 2016 15:27:24 GMT
This just seems like a thread to allow for some intense Moffat-bashing. Where are all the Moffat fans?
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Post by mark687 on Jul 3, 2016 15:57:19 GMT
This just seems like a thread to allow for some intense Moffat-bashing. Where are all the Moffat fans?
You've created the poll with your own bias that Moffat is worse than Homles. what I and several other People are saying is that they're too similar to each other for fair compression therefore its not fair to vote
But regardless your bias is being proven correct by the votes cast yet you still want to provoke confrontational style discussion in regards to Moffat.
Regards
mark687
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jul 3, 2016 16:00:54 GMT
Where are all the Moffat fans?
You've created the poll with your own bias that Moffat is worse than Homles. what I and several other People are saying is that they're too similar to each other for fair compression therefore its not fair to vote
But regardless your bias is being proven correct by the votes cast but you still want to provoke confrontational style discussion in regards to Moffat.
Regards
mark687
I am only ONE person. I can only vote ONCE! The poll is fair! Its the voters opinion! You just don't like others liking someone else other than Moffat! There's the bias!
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Post by mark687 on Jul 3, 2016 16:10:23 GMT
You've created the poll with your own bias that Moffat is worse than Homles. what I and several other People are saying is that they're too similar to each other for fair compression therefore its not fair to vote
But regardless your bias is being proven correct by the votes cast but you still want to provoke confrontational style discussion in regards to Moffat.
Regards
mark687
I am only ONE person. I can only vote ONCE! The poll is fair! Its the voters opinion! You just don't like others liking someone else other than Moffat! There's the bias! As I've just proven in your other Thread I prefer RTD to Moffatt!
But with the 2 options on this poll I can't justify voting as I find Holmes and Moffatt too similar.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Star Platinum on Jul 3, 2016 16:16:48 GMT
I also, don't think the comparison is fair, the show has evolved far beyond what it was when holmes was writing.
I could without hesitation, name Moffatt as the Holmes of the modern show, I can't think of any other writer who has had as much of an influence on writing who nowadays than Moffatt.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jul 4, 2016 15:38:11 GMT
I also, don't think the comparison is fair, the show has evolved far beyond what it was when holmes was writing. I could without hesitation, name Moffatt as the Holmes of the modern show, I can't think of any other writer who has had as much of an influence on writing who nowadays than Moffatt. Probably because Moffat doesn't give anyone else a chance.
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Post by Star Platinum on Jul 4, 2016 17:29:13 GMT
I also, don't think the comparison is fair, the show has evolved far beyond what it was when holmes was writing. I could without hesitation, name Moffatt as the Holmes of the modern show, I can't think of any other writer who has had as much of an influence on writing who nowadays than Moffatt. Probably because Moffat doesn't give anyone else a chance. I don't think so, He's brought on new writers each season (Seven excepted); Simon Nye, Neil Gaiman, Peter Harness and Catherine Treganna. I also counted the number of episodes written by Moffat and Davies, excluding the specials seasons. Comparing four seasons of Davies to four season of Moffat they've written the exact same amount of episodes if you count his co writing credits, otherwise Moffat has written Less than Davies four seasons into their runs. I'm afraid that claim simply doesn't hold up.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jul 4, 2016 17:41:42 GMT
Probably because Moffat doesn't give anyone else a chance. I don't think so, He's brought on new writers each season (Seven excepted); Simon Nye, Neil Gaiman, Peter Harness and Catherine Treganna. I also counted the number of episodes written by Moffat and Davies, excluding the specials seasons. Comparing four seasons of Davies to four season of Moffat they've written the exact same amount of episodes if you count his co writing credits, otherwise Moffat has written Less than Davies four seasons into their runs. I'm afraid that claim simply doesn't hold up. Nothing to do with RTD you said you can't think of any other writer who has had as much of an influence on writing who nowadays than Moffatt. Perhaps, if Moffat wrote less, there could be someone else who could be more influential, but aren't given the chance!
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Post by elkawho on Jul 4, 2016 17:43:42 GMT
Aaaand there you go.
I am not what you would call a Moffat fan. There is a lot about the Moffat era that I don't like, to the point where it drives me insane sometimes. I vastly prefer the RTD era of the modern series over the Moffat era. However, there is a lot that he has done for the show that I think is brilliant and I can give credit where credit it due. Mostly it is down to some of his incredible stories.
As for your assertion that "Moffat doesn't give anyone else a chance.", that is just false. Here is a list of just some of the writers that have contributed to the show during his leadership. Neil Gaiman, Mark Gatiss, Jamie Mathieson, Toby Whithouse, Sarah Dollard, Gareth Roberts, Tom Macrae, Chris Chibnall, Simon Nye, Richard Curtiss, and many others. (In fact, Curtiss wrote Vincent and The Doctor which is, IMO, one of the greatest episodes of Doctor Who ever.)
I don't have a problem with the fact that you don't like anything about modern Doctor Who, but please stop being rude to those of us that do.
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Post by Star Platinum on Jul 4, 2016 17:50:32 GMT
RTD was used to show someone whose written a comparable amount to Moffat and yet whose influence isn't quite as strong.
Who knows, perhaps Chibnall will have a greater influence on doctor who when his time comes?
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jul 4, 2016 18:08:23 GMT
Aaaand there you go. I am not what you would call a Moffat fan. There is a lot about the Moffat era that I don't like, to the point where it drives me insane sometimes. I vastly prefer the RTD era of the modern series over the Moffat era. However, there is a lot that he has done for the show that I think is brilliant and I can give credit where credit it due. Mostly it is down to some of his incredible stories. As for your assertion that "Moffat doesn't give anyone else a chance.", that is just false. Here is a list of just some of the writers that have contributed to the show during his leadership. Neil Gaiman, Mark Gatiss, Jamie Mathieson, Toby Whithouse, Sarah Dollard, Gareth Roberts, Tom Macrae, Chris Chibnall, Simon Nye, Richard Curtiss, and many others. (In fact, Curtiss wrote Vincent and The Doctor which is, IMO, one of the greatest episodes of Doctor Who ever.) I don't have a problem with the fact that you don't like anything about modern Doctor Who, but please stop being rude to those of us that do. Annnnnnnd, there you go. I didn't say that. Moffat writes at least 4 stories a series. Why not let another writer write upto 4 stories a series? If Moffat only wrote 2 scripts a series, he could let Mark Gatiss write 4, Toby Whithouse could write another 4, Sarah Dollard 2,(for example) and so on.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jul 4, 2016 18:13:26 GMT
Hmmm. They're both pretty damn good, so I'll try rating each of their episodes out of 10 and taking an average.
Holmes:
The Krotons: 4 The Space Pirates: 1 Spearhead From Space: 9 Terror of the Autons: 10 Carnival of Monsters: 5 The Time Warrior: 7 The Ark in Space: 7 Pyramids of Mars: 8 The Brain of Morbius: 6 The Deadly Assassin: 7 The Talons of Weng Chiang: 6 The Sun Makers: 4 The Ribos Operation: 9 The Power of Kroll: 4 The Caves of Androzani: 6 The Two Doctors: 6 The Mysterious Planet: 6 The Ultimate Foe: 3 Average: 5.7
Moffat: The Curse of Fatal Death: 9 The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances: 10 The Girl in the Fireplace: 6 Blink: 7 Time Crash: 9 Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead: 10 The Eleventh Hour: 6 The Beast Below: 2 The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone: 6 The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang: 8 A Christmas Carol: 8 Space/Time: 7 The Impssoible Astronaut/Day of the Moon: 8 A Good Man Goes to War: 9 Let's Kill Hitler: 4 The Wedding of River Song: 6 The Doctor, The Widow, and the Wardrobe: 2 Asylum of the Daleks: 8 The Angels Take Manhattan: 9 The Snowmen: 9 The Bells of Saint John: 8 The Name of the Doctor: 7 The Night of the Doctor: 10 The Day of the Doctor: 10 The Time of the Doctor: 8 Deep Breath: 8 Into the Dalek: 6 Listen: 9 Time Heist: 5 The Caretaker: 5 Dark Water/Death in Heaven: 9 Last Christmas: 6 The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar: 10 The Girl Who Died: 8 The Zygon Inversion: 9 Heaven Sent: 11 Hell Bent: 8 The Husbands of River Song: 8 Average: 7.6
Assuming that my math is correct (which it may very well not be), I'm voting for Moffat.
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Post by elkawho on Jul 4, 2016 19:48:11 GMT
icecreamdf, you give Caves of Androzani a 6/10? Are you insane?
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