bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Apr 1, 2017 13:16:18 GMT
I know some of us have kinda touched on it, but since this is 1.1 - the first DS BF release - does anyone have any ideas, even briefly, on what they might have done instead to kickstart the range, assuming you only had the same actors and characters to play with? Following the conversation we were having up-thread about bring in a newbie... Simples - Ed and Susan Griffin arrive in Collinsport to take over the Blue Whale... Quentin comes back to town on the same train? Like Victoria arriving and Burke Devlin returning.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 1, 2017 17:37:03 GMT
I rather like the opening of this echoing the opening of the series with the train setting. It's funny but I was put in mind of Star Trek: The Motion Picture and how all the main characters got their moment to be reintroduced and how that took up almost the entire first segment of the disc. Stix isn't a bad villain and I like how it commands the birds. If this was my first exposure to Dark Shadows I don't know if I'd be in a hurry to keep going as this strikes me as very much something directed to people who are already fans of the show and not new fans needing to be converted. On its own this episode struck me as being quite competent in its design & execution rather than inspired. The serial which follows on the other hand...
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Post by jjjjj on Apr 2, 2017 0:02:19 GMT
I listened to these with no knowledge of the show, and wasn't impressed. I was confused by the raising of Angelique, I thought she was a ghost after they brought her back which was confusing in later scenes, and couldn't get a good grip on who was who. The next three also failed to grab me, I was baffled why these people would hang out together given their obvious distrust and disdain for each other. Angelique helping to do things baffled me, again, since I thought she was just a ghost. 😀
When I finished it, I was done with the range. Then when bloodlust was gearing up, I thought I would give kingdom of the dead a try, and I LOVED it. A story over four discs, more people, bigger threats, and the characters acted a tad more normal. Like Maggie and willy. Then I dove into the single disc stories....But yea, first series, I was not a fan of. It certainly is my fav range now with BF, but almost never got any further into it.
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Post by jjjjj on Apr 2, 2017 0:03:48 GMT
I also have to say I try to watch the show on Hulu sometimes, and it is so boring. So not sure why I can love the audio's, but fall asleep in the original source!
I do remember liking the revamp of the show in early 90s, which is why I kept wanting to like the range. And the time travel aspect of the story I already knew.
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Post by omega on Apr 2, 2017 0:15:39 GMT
I also have to say I try to watch the show on Hulu sometimes, and it is so boring. So not sure why I can love the audio's, but fall asleep in the original source! I do remember liking the revamp of the show in early 90s, which is why I kept wanting to like the range. And the time travel aspect of the story I already knew. Storylines didn't always stick the landing, but there are characters who make watching it worthwhile.
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Post by Trace on Apr 2, 2017 20:33:10 GMT
As a fan of the original series (from its later run on SciFi Channel and on VHS) I think I have a bit of insight into the first series from Big Finish, because I was there when it began in 2006 and have been with it for eleven years since. When the first round was released, I do not recall ANY discussion about trying to make the series accessible to new listeners. Certainly, that was probably the HOPE, but not the main (or stated) intention. It was very much promoted as a CONTINUATION of the TV series, with some knowledge of the TV show inherent. As I said, I'm sure the producers HOPED that newbies would find it accessible enough to get involved, but it really was a "return" for loyal fans/viewers, and was a great success in that goal. Nobody to date had presented a viable continuation that had such respect for the original.
As for getting new listeners interested, I distinctly remember when that became a priority, and Joe Lidster and James Goss (and later, David Darlington) were instrumental in that direction, with a dual-goal in mind--attracting new listeners AND remaining a respectful and 'enhanced' experience for the longtime fan.
So, when you listen to these early audios, keep that perspective in mind. I must say that I always tried to keep the new listener in mind as I listened, and I do really feel that there was very little that was presented in those audios that absolutely needed background material to understand. Yes, it certainly helped as far as character motivations, relationships, etc....but, I think they did a pretty good job of accomplishing their original intent. And everything evolves and fine-tunes over time, and you can see that progression, to a more 'self-contained' experience, with an enhanced bonus for longtime fans.
Just my thoughts, and I'm enjoying all the comments--both positive and negative. I hope that those of you who just couldn't get into these on your first go-round have found perhaps a new appreciation for them now, by keeping in mind what they were trying to do (and DID--better than anything else at that time) when they first came out, paving the way for the thoroughly detailed and brilliant range that it became under the current producers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 21:17:10 GMT
I certainly appreciate that perspective Trace, you're one of the only ones who posts here who has that pre-determined love of DS and it's uber-cool having you as the guru of DS to give us that context. I would say though that BF have plenty of other ranges that are continuations of their respective TV franchises, not least Doctor Who but also Terrahawks, The Omega Factor, Torchwood and others, and they manage mostly to be pretty user-friendly for new folks as well as add to the experience for older fans. Moreso, I dare say, than this did. We've got more than a few people here saying it nearly put them off, or if it was their first they'd never have come back for more. I'm not sure I'd go that far myself but I can't really say for sure as it would be purely hypothetical. I think it's kinda telling when anyone asks where to start, this story is almost never mentioned despite being numero uno. If this first era of DS on audio was never intended to attract new listeners, fair enough, but that seems quite a short term strategy of preaching only to the rather niche choir and I'm glad things changed down the road or I'm not sure we'd still be getting the audios.
I'm really looking forward to hearing people's thoughts on if the range becomes more accessible going forward with Series 1, it's been quite an interesting dicussion.
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Post by Trace on Apr 2, 2017 22:40:51 GMT
Just a clarification--I didn't mean to imply that it "never intended to attract new listeners"--I'm sure it did, just that it wasn't its main focus--or at the very least, if it was, I certainly didn't get that feel from publicity or forum discussions. As you say, it would be a pretty poor business plan for a going concern if it didn't.
A further point, and perhaps why I felt the need to give that perspective: I don't recall one comment at the time 1.1 was initially released from any forum poster on the old boards where someone said that they couldn't follow it based on too much of a reliance on the TV show, or for that matter, that they wouldn't be continuing because it failed to grab them. The general feel from series 1, and reviews, were extremely positive--to the point of "WOWZA!!" for this new range that was already poised to claim the #2 spot for Big Finish series.
I might posit that perhaps it was the result of having nothing to compare it to, and this time around, having MUCH to compare it to. I know it's not everyone, because some have said it WAS their first DS audio, and they considered dropping out. I don't know...it's just an overall feeling I have, from having been on the Boards for two very different discussions of the same audio. But, that's what makes it interesting--fascinating, even!! I'm loving the dialogue here!
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Post by Trace on Apr 2, 2017 22:45:42 GMT
And thank you for the "uber-cool" comment! I love that!
Looking forward to seeing how this all progresses for 1.2 The Book of Temptation!
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 2, 2017 23:20:56 GMT
And thank you for the "uber-cool" comment! I love that! Looking forward to seeing how this all progresses for 1.2 The Book of Temptation! Not to jump the gun but I personally feel that The Book of Temptation is a major step up from episode one in pretty much every way.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 2, 2017 23:27:58 GMT
So funnyish story. Both my Mom & I were fans of Dark Shadows, so when House of Dark Shadows came out in 1970, it was a family outing to the Westgate Drive-In to go see it. 1970, I was 6. I don't think we made it to the 2nd reel before a shocked Mom & Dad covered my eyes and we got out of there as quickly as our Cutlass could get us home. If I liked Dark Shadows before, I became kind of obsessed wit it on that night. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled group listen thread.
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Post by Trace on Apr 3, 2017 0:07:07 GMT
So funnyish story. Both my Mom & I were fans of Dark Shadows, so when House of Dark Shadows came out in 1970, it was a family outing to the Westgate Drive-In to go see it. 1970, I was 6. I don't think we made it to the 2nd reel before a shocked Mom & Dad covered my eyes and we got out of there as quickly as our Cutlass could get us home. If I liked Dark Shadows before, I became kind of obsessed wit it on that night. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled group listen thread. That's a GREAT story!! I've often wondered how many Dark Shadows kids were able to make the transition from TV to the big screen. Was it rated "R" or "M"?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 3, 2017 0:17:20 GMT
So funnyish story. Both my Mom & I were fans of Dark Shadows, so when House of Dark Shadows came out in 1970, it was a family outing to the Westgate Drive-In to go see it. 1970, I was 6. I don't think we made it to the 2nd reel before a shocked Mom & Dad covered my eyes and we got out of there as quickly as our Cutlass could get us home. If I liked Dark Shadows before, I became kind of obsessed wit it on that night. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled group listen thread. That's a GREAT story!! I've often wondered how many Dark Shadows kids were able to make the transition from TV to the big screen. Was it rated "R" or "M"? That is a good question. I have no idea.
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Post by barnabaslives on Apr 3, 2017 4:12:22 GMT
I think it's kinda telling when anyone asks where to start, this story is almost never mentioned despite being numero uno. If this first era of DS on audio was never intended to attract new listeners, fair enough, but that seems quite a short term strategy of preaching only to the rather niche choir and I'm glad things changed down the road or I'm not sure we'd still be getting the audios. I keep getting the feeling that this first installment, at least, was devoted more to hitting the reset button for the sake of all listeners than anything else. (There are still some things that could cause discontented rumblings even among the choir, not least of which is a major recast). As stated, I'm wondering if the story might have been better served simply by having the chance to make more of it (I think both Barnabas' appearance and the struggle to reclaim Collinwood might have been somewhat more appealing if they had taken more to achieve within the story, maybe even a bit of a quest, as opposed to kind of "splat, they're all together in their places again"). I hope no one is put off - there are aspects of the OS that originally put me off (the earliest episodes being in black and white, pre-Barnabas stories, and Adam for example) although I feel very differently about all of them now. I think Dark Shadows a series where it's definitely worth any efforts to hang in there. I think I could have run into similar accessibility issues myself with other audio ranges, I'm very glad I didn't try to start getting back into Doctor Who with Sirens of Time, or probably worse yet, mistake Zagreus for an accessible anniversary release, but the DW ranges too are very much worth persisting with.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Apr 3, 2017 9:09:37 GMT
A further point, and perhaps why I felt the need to give that perspective: I don't recall one comment at the time 1.1 was initially released from any forum poster on the old boards where someone said that they couldn't follow it based on too much of a reliance on the TV show, or for that matter, that they wouldn't be continuing because it failed to grab them. We got that a lot at the Festival.
Lots of people said to me that they had bought the first four releases (or just the first one) and decided not to continue until either they'd been attracted by one of the later plays, tried that, and THAT was what had hooked them into the range or they'd never ever tried a later one but were now tempted to finally do so as Big Finish were at the event promoting them and could answer questions/make recommendations.
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Post by Trace on Apr 4, 2017 2:00:01 GMT
A further point, and perhaps why I felt the need to give that perspective: I don't recall one comment at the time 1.1 was initially released from any forum poster on the old boards where someone said that they couldn't follow it based on too much of a reliance on the TV show, or for that matter, that they wouldn't be continuing because it failed to grab them. We got that a lot at the Festival.
Lots of people said to me that they had bought the first four releases (or just the first one) and decided not to continue until either they'd been attracted by one of the later plays, tried that, and THAT was what had hooked them into the range or they'd never ever tried a later one but were now tempted to finally do so as Big Finish were at the event promoting them and could answer questions/make recommendations.
I remember you telling me that at the Fest. It frustrated me almost as much as all the requests for more Tony/Cassandra!
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Apr 4, 2017 8:50:46 GMT
I also have to say I try to watch the show on Hulu sometimes, and it is so boring. So not sure why I can love the audio's, but fall asleep in the original source! I do remember liking the revamp of the show in early 90s, which is why I kept wanting to like the range. And the time travel aspect of the story I already knew. Storylines didn't always stick the landing, but there are characters who make watching it worthwhile. 'stick the landing'?
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Apr 4, 2017 8:54:42 GMT
Are we all on for the next one this week? All this talk of being put off the early audios hasn't put anyone off the early audios? Anyone heard The Book of Temptation yet? Shall we let the masta of the cover-and-blurb post work his magic in this thread before we move onto discussing story two?
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Post by omega on Apr 4, 2017 9:03:06 GMT
Storylines didn't always stick the landing, but there are characters who make watching it worthwhile. 'stick the landing'? Doesn't quite end as strongly at it began. 1795 started out with Angelique scheming, Abigail casting judgement and Trask shouting, but ended with Vicki on trial, Trask and Peter Bradford shouting at each other during said trail and *shudder* Noah Gifford.
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Post by omega on Apr 4, 2017 9:09:26 GMT
1.2: The Book of DespairReleased September 2006SynopsisMaggie Evans is paying a visit to the place she swore she would never return to... Collinwood.
When Maggie Evans finds herself drawn to the disused servants' wing of Collinwood, she becomes the target for a terrifying supernatural attack. What lies in wait in Collinwood’s abandoned wing? And can Quentin and Angelique contain the evil that has been unleashed? Written By: Scott Handcock Directed By: Gary Russell CASTDavid Selby (Quentin Collins); Lara Parker (Angelique); John Karlen (Willie Loomis); Kathryn Leigh Scott (Maggie Evans); Andrew Collins (Barnabas Collins); Daphne Ashbrook (Charlotte Howell); Ursula Burton (Spirit); Kellie Ryan (Spirit) Technical DetailsWritten By: Scott Handcock Director: Gary Russell Sound Design: Joseph Fox Music: Joseph Fox Cover Art: Stuart Manning Number of Discs: 1 Duration: 71' 07" Physical Retail ISBN: 1-84435-244-7 Production Code: BFPDSCD02 Product Format: 1-disc CD (jewel case) Behind the ScenesCHRONOLOGICAL PLACEMENT:This story takes place after the 1971 Present Day storyline.
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