bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Apr 4, 2017 9:12:18 GMT
Doesn't quite end as strongly at it began. 1795 started out with Angelique scheming, Abigail casting judgement and Trask shouting, but ended with Vicki on trial, Trask and Peter Bradford shouting at each other during said trail and *shudder* Noah Gifford. Cheers - it's not an expression I knew.
Although, actually, Vicki's trial was my favourite bit of 1795.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Apr 4, 2017 9:21:48 GMT
It's nice to hear Daphne Ashbrook - the range's first guest star.
But, again, it's odd that this isn't as capitalised on as it could be... you've got an actress of interest to fans of BF's biggest range. An actress who has been in Star Trek, Murder She Wrote, The O.C., CSI, Diagnosis Murder, Falcon Crest, Fame, Knight Rider, The A Team, and so on and on and on. She plays a character caught up with your titular book. Don't put a photo of a non-specific woman with a hidden face reading a book on the cover. Whack a fantastic photo of your guest star being dramatic with a book on your cover.
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Post by omega on Apr 4, 2017 9:25:13 GMT
It's nice to hear Daphne Ashbrook - the range's first guest star. But, again, it's odd that this isn't as capitalised on as it could be... you've got an actress of interest to fans of BF's biggest range. An actress who has been in Star Trek, Murder She Wrote, The O.C., CSI, Diagnosis Murder, Falcon Crest, Fame, Knight Rider, The A Team, and so on and on and on. She plays a character caught up with your titular book. Don't put a photo of a non-specific woman with a hidden face reading a book on the cover. Whack a fantastic photo of your guest star being dramatic with a book on your cover. She was also in the Doctor Who TV Movie, an incentive for Doctor Who fans to give it a go. Of course this was before the download system was implemented, but a number of stories were marketed toward fans of other ranges through shared actors, like Sarah Sutton in The Devil Cat and Alexander Vlahos in The Darkest Shadow (there was even a trailer for Confessions of Dorian Gray at the end of the first disc).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 9:31:28 GMT
It's nice to hear Daphne Ashbrook - the range's first guest star. But, again, it's odd that this isn't as capitalised on as it could be... you've got an actress of interest to fans of BF's biggest range. An actress who has been in Star Trek, Murder She Wrote, The O.C., CSI, Diagnosis Murder, Falcon Crest, Fame, Knight Rider, The A Team, and so on and on and on. She plays a character caught up with your titular book. Don't put a photo of a non-specific woman with a hidden face reading a book on the cover. Whack a fantastic photo of your guest star being dramatic with a book on your cover. Was there, I wonder, a fear that the early releases shouldn't have anyone not in the original series on the cover? Would certainly lend credence to the idea we've discussed that these were indeed aimed at the "we", the DS fans with little regard for crossing it over to fans of other ranges. A bit like the early Doctor Who covers - Maggie Stables never made a cover for a few years after Evelyns debut wheras TV companions were on there from the start with no issue - as were notable guest stars like Biggins and Tony Head.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 9:44:10 GMT
It's nice to hear Daphne Ashbrook - the range's first guest star. But, again, it's odd that this isn't as capitalised on as it could be... you've got an actress of interest to fans of BF's biggest range. An actress who has been in Star Trek, Murder She Wrote, The O.C., CSI, Diagnosis Murder, Falcon Crest, Fame, Knight Rider, The A Team, and so on and on and on. She plays a character caught up with your titular book. Don't put a photo of a non-specific woman with a hidden face reading a book on the cover. Whack a fantastic photo of your guest star being dramatic with a book on your cover. She was also in the Doctor Who TV Movie, an incentive for Doctor Who fans to give it a go. Of course this was before the download system was implemented, but a number of stories were marketed toward fans of other ranges through shared actors, like Sarah Sutton in The Devil Cat and Alexander Vlahos in The Darkest Shadow (there was even a trailer for Confessions of Dorian Gray at the end of the first disc). Yeah, I think Who is the "BF's biggest range" Bobod was talking about. Of course those stories, and the inclusion of people like Lou Jameson, Matthew Waterhouse and Colin Baker didn't happen till years after this first series. It ties in to what we were saying about 1.1, that the range could have been sold - potentially - to a wider, different audience much sooner than it was with the examples we've cited of crossover actors if it were possible at the time. It's no coincidence that BF have featured the likes of House By The Sea as a sale item, great story and for 3 quid very tempting for Who fans on the fence to take the plunge and potentially get into the range.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Apr 4, 2017 9:51:30 GMT
It's nice to hear Daphne Ashbrook - the range's first guest star. But, again, it's odd that this isn't as capitalised on as it could be... you've got an actress of interest to fans of BF's biggest range. An actress who has been in Star Trek, Murder She Wrote, The O.C., CSI, Diagnosis Murder, Falcon Crest, Fame, Knight Rider, The A Team, and so on and on and on. She plays a character caught up with your titular book. Don't put a photo of a non-specific woman with a hidden face reading a book on the cover. Whack a fantastic photo of your guest star being dramatic with a book on your cover. She was also in the Doctor Who TV Movie, an incentive for Doctor Who fans to give it a go. Ahem - "an actress of interest to fans of BF's biggest range."
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying - she could have been marketed better, in the way they would later.
Even when they got to The Creeping Fog, a trick was missed by not having Matthew Waterhouse's face on the cover - he'd never done a Big Finish before and there were only two main cast members.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Apr 4, 2017 9:53:31 GMT
It's nice to hear Daphne Ashbrook - the range's first guest star. But, again, it's odd that this isn't as capitalised on as it could be... you've got an actress of interest to fans of BF's biggest range. An actress who has been in Star Trek, Murder She Wrote, The O.C., CSI, Diagnosis Murder, Falcon Crest, Fame, Knight Rider, The A Team, and so on and on and on. She plays a character caught up with your titular book. Don't put a photo of a non-specific woman with a hidden face reading a book on the cover. Whack a fantastic photo of your guest star being dramatic with a book on your cover. Was there, I wonder, a fear that the early releases shouldn't have anyone not in the original series on the cover? Would certainly lend credence to the idea we've discussed that these were indeed aimed at the "we", the DS fans with little regard for crossing it over to fans of other ranges. A bit like the early Doctor Who covers - Maggie Stables never made a cover for a few years after Evelyns debut wheras TV companions were on there from the start with no issue - as were notable guest stars like Biggins and Tony Head. I think the idea was that the audio companions didn't necessarily look like the actors. Until one day they did. Even Erimem who wasn't the same colour as Caroline Morris!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 10:02:52 GMT
She was also in the Doctor Who TV Movie, an incentive for Doctor Who fans to give it a go. Ahem - "an actress of interest to fans of BF's biggest range."
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying - she could have been marketed better, in the way they would later.
Even when they got to The Creeping Fog, a trick was missed by not having Matthew Waterhouse's face on the cover - he'd never done a Big Finish before and there were only two main cast members.
Creeping Fog really could fit him on that cover too, it's very plain compared to just about every other bit of cover art from the dramatic readings. Most of the covers with two main characters have both actors and I guess Lou Jameson is the most obvious comparison given she's also a Who crossover actor like Matthew. Hey, she's more prominent on her cover than David Selby .
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Post by Trace on Apr 5, 2017 0:16:35 GMT
I think you all may be seeing just a bit of what I 'surmised' was going on at the time of the initial releases. It's not like anyone from BF announced "these are strictly made for the longtime DS TV series fans" but there was also not a lot of hoopla (literally or perceived) about making them accessible to new listeners (or, as you noticed, listeners of other ranges--specifically, BF's biggest range Doctor Who).
However, it did 'morph' over time to be more inclusive...and when Joe Lidster contributed his wonderful London's Burning, perhaps he began the writing on the wall for an added dimension to the range. Certainly, after new listeners start with an accessible entry like House by the Sea (and I highly recommend Joe's suggested listener order for newbies--a very valuable resource, from what I've observed), then I would definitely recommend going back to these early ones (and of course, the TV show) and they may be much more enjoyable.
In the meantime, I'm all in for 1.2...will be listening by this weekend, I'm sure, and looking forward to contributing discussion and seeing all your input too! Daphne is wonderful in this. I always hoped she'd return to the range for another role, or even as Charlotte again. Incidentally, fans of her brother Dana Ashbrook should be pleased to see him in Showtime's revival of Twin Peaks in May. Now there's another extremely unique American soap opera (this one in primetime) that blended ordinary drama with the surreal and twisted (and supernatural) world of David Lynch. It's safe to say at its original airing that there was nothing like it ever before--although, if not for Dark Shadows paving the way, it may never have happened at all. Then again, who knows? At any rate, it was very fun, scary, and STRANGE. The new airing is "Season 3" and picks up 25 years after Season 2, with all the same actors/characters. Amazing! Enjoy!!!
I digress! Back to DS: The Book of Temptation....here we go!
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Post by elkawho on Apr 5, 2017 2:51:47 GMT
I like The Book Of Temptation. It still has some of the problems that I though the first had, but the story was easier to follow and it had less of the "cheese factor". Why Maggie stays at that house I'll never know.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 4:23:12 GMT
I don't have time to be part of the relisten, but if your in need of a horror fix via Big Finish, The Evil Thereof audiobook (a novel written by The Omega Factor's creator and showrunner John Gleason) is a great listen (I'm still in the first hour, but it's fantastic).
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Post by omega on Apr 5, 2017 8:52:11 GMT
The plot is simple, yet interesting. Like the best mysteries not everything is explained and we're only given enough to get to the next stage of deductions. It fits in perfectly with the TV show, where seemingly innocent objects brought fear and terror to those touched by it (the phone in Quentin's room, the Hand of Petofi and books like the Collins Family History or the Leviathan book). The idea that after less than 200 years of being inhabited Collinwood still held secrets is strong for creating new narratives.
Poor Maggie really is a sucker for punishment, isn't she? By looking out for Willie she ends up caught up in another supernatural event that renders her powerless. This story is great at establishing her dynamics with the other inhabitants of Collinwood, from the mutual animosity she has for Angelique to the subconscious trust she puts in the new Barnabas. Despite not having much agency in most of the story it's very much Maggie's story and that her compassion nearly did her in is faithful to her TV characterisation.
The music is excellent. It's gothic and atmospheric. I've listened to the music tracks for this story more times than I can count, that's how amazing it is.
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Post by barnabaslives on Apr 5, 2017 11:13:45 GMT
Poor Maggie really is a sucker for punishment, isn't she? I was astonished to learn that "ingenue" is neither French for "victim," nor for "she walked right into that one, didn't she?"
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Post by omega on Apr 5, 2017 11:24:23 GMT
Poor Maggie really is a sucker for punishment, isn't she? I was astonished to learn that "ingenue" is neither French for "victim," nor for "she walked right into that one, didn't she?" To be fair to Maggie, with the time travel storylines she didn't get caught up in events nearly as often as you'd imagine. Post-210 she does get kidnapped by Barnabas and ends up in Windcliff, but then there's 1895. Adam and Eve she hangs out with Vicki and is kidnapped by Willie for her own safety for a week (naturally he missed the memo where Adam changed Eve's Life Force donor to Carolyn). She's amnesia-ed by Nicholas Blair, tries to protect David and Amy from Quentin's Ghost before being absent for 200-odd episodes for 1897. Then there's the Leviathans and Roxanne Drew, at which point Maggie is taken to Windcliff by Sebastian Shaw (an in-joke by Dan Curtis apparently, that KLS would be mad to leave the show so she left by going to the sanitarium).
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Post by kimalysong on Apr 5, 2017 20:49:59 GMT
I definitely enjoyed the Book of Temptations a lot more than the first story. It helps that it doesn't jumps around as much as the first story and all your core characters are there throughout the story. I also liked the atmosphere of this story and loved Daphne Ashbrook in this (I didn't even realize that was her at first). Who knew reading a book could be so dangerous. Although I think if this was a longer story they could have done even more with the concept of the reader of the book becoming a part of the story.
There were still some things that confused me like why did Maggie not remember Barnabas or Angelique (but she seemed to remember Quentin). I didn't really understand the point of this either.
Favorite scene was probably when Angelique made Maggie drink the tea. I loved how that whole scene was read between the two women. It was very atmospheric & Lara Parker just sells the mysterious and magical aspect of Angelique so well here. Plus it really made want a cup of tea. I also like that throughout this story you are never quite clear of Angelique's motives. Maggie was a bit of the victim here but I did like that she let her feelings of anger out here at Quentin and wasn't just going to let them decide everything for her. Quentin and Barnabas were just protective of Maggie and honestly I don't have much to say about either character wise but the 4 actors really played off each other so well in this story. Andrew Collins despite not being in the original cast as Barnabas feels completely like he belongs with the others.
Overall this was a huge improvement over the first story for me.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 5, 2017 21:59:43 GMT
I definitely enjoyed the Book of Temptations a lot more than the first story. It helps that it doesn't jumps around as much as the first story and all your core characters are there throughout the story. I also liked the atmosphere of this story and loved Daphne Ashbrook in this (I didn't even realize that was her at first). Who knew reading a book could be so dangerous. Although I think if this was a longer story they could have done even more with the concept of the reader of the book becoming a party of the story. There were still some things that confused me like why did Maggie not remember Barnabas or Angelique (but she seemed to remember Quentin). I didn't really understand the point of this either. Favorite scene was probably when Angelique made Maggie drink the tea. I loved how that whole scene was read between the two women. It was very atmospheric & Lara Parker just sells the mysterious and magical aspect of Angelique so well here. Plus it really made want a cup of tea. I also like that throughout this story you are never quite clear of Angelique's motives. Maggie was a bit of the victim here but I did like that she let her feelings of anger out here at Quentin and wasn't just going to let them decide everything for her. Quentin and Barnabas were just protective of Maggie and honestly I don't have much to say about either character wise but the 4 actors really played off each other so well in this story. Andrew Collins despite not being in the original cast as Barnabas feels completely like he belongs with the others. Overall this was a huge improvement over the first story for me. I'd echo kimalysong here almost point for point although I would go further with praise for Andrew Collins. Yes there are four leads for this audio drama but I do think Collins makes the most of what he is given and my interest kicked up another notch whenever he was present in a scene.
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Post by Trace on Apr 5, 2017 23:26:27 GMT
Kim--Maggie doesn't know Angelique at that point. She had met her as Cassanda Blair, but presumably a dye job or a wig makes one totally unrecognizable. At least it does in Collinsport....unless it serves the plot better if one is recognized as a dead ringer!
As for Barnabas, she would certainly know him, but not in this new body, compliments of Strix in the last audio. More on that to come!
Jbmasta--where do those little plot synopses come from that you're quoting above?
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Post by omega on Apr 6, 2017 0:21:07 GMT
Kim--Maggie doesn't know Angelique at that point. She had met her as Cassanda Blair, but presumably a dye job or a wig makes one totally unrecognizable. At least it does in Collinsport....unless it serves the plot better if one is recognized as a dead ringer! As for Barnabas, she would certainly know him, but not in this new body, compliments of Strix in the last audio. More on that to come! Jbmasta--where do those little plot synopses come from that you're quoting above? Not to mention Maggie probably was made to forget anything of the supernatural she'd encountered when she went to Windcliff in her final episode on the show (in order to recover from being under the influence of the vampire Roxanne Drew). It's plausible that Julia erased or buried any supernatural encounters from Maggie's mind like she did when she first appeared, and Maggie was released where she experienced an uneventful period (at least not directly affecting her) before Quentin's return in House of Despair.
I don't think Maggie personally had any meaningful interaction with Cassandralique. It was mainly Cassandra using Maggie as the starting point for the Dream Curse because she resembled Josette.
The story synopses are from the product page on the Big Finish website. The other quotes are the opening narration from the three episodes of Book of Temptation, which can be found on the page for the story on the Dark Shadows wiki. There are also plot summaries for stories up to Harvest of Souls or Curtain Call. It's a useful place for reading up on character histories.
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Post by barnabaslives on Apr 7, 2017 17:56:45 GMT
Being a dark and stormy night, I thought I'd give this a listen on the computer and then the power went out five times and finally stayed out for six hours when I had two minutes of the story left. I probably like this more than House of Despair, now that the players are better established there's time to tell a tale. Already Kathryn Leigh Scott and Lara Parker are showing some great chemistry and Maggie is given the chance to be stronger and less the victim even though as usual she manages to be the target of supernatural forces. It's wonderful, and in hindsight seems like a foreshadowing already in the audio series of Maggie's strength of character in Bloodlust.
I thought it both sweet and appropriate for Maggie to be thinking about Willie - there are a couple of times in the OS where Willie's concern for Maggie manages to be completely misunderstood and it's actually rather tragic. It's lovely to see things working out differently between the two for a minute here. I think Angelique is more on-form here with her jealousy over Barnabas, and the more so the more the subject of his glance resembles Josette, I'm sure. A bit less cackling out of her sometimes actually seems to make me more anxious about what she's planning next, and this was one of those occasions. I've forgotten what comes next, so I'm looking forward to the third story very much now.
Last but not least, I though Daphne Ashbrook was wonderful but don't get me started or I'll be pining away again for her to work with Paul McGann once more. :-)
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Post by Trace on Apr 7, 2017 18:22:02 GMT
I agree about Maggie and Willie. Their relationship has always fascinated me. It starts out where everyone is afraid of or suspicious of ne'er do well Willie Loomis. But later in the series, through their shared experiences it is clear just how much Maggie & Willie care about each other. Willie, of course, is in love with Maggie and has been from the first time he saw her. It was always tragic that his rare heroism in trying to protect Maggie from Barnabas so often resulted in a terrible beating from the vampire, or bullets in his back and a stint in Windcliff. Actually, they have Windcliff in common too--both driven mad by supernatural forces.
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