Why the cyncism over Doom Coalition?

Disclaimer: I have not heard DC3. I plan to do so when DC4 comes out.

The problem is that Matt Smith is River's Doctor. Her only Doctor. We know that River does not meet The Doctor between when she finds out about incarnations after Matt Smith (in Husbands) and her death in The Library. We also know that she has never met David Tennant (or earlier incarnations) before The Library (unless she met him in-between the Series 4 Specials), as she tells him and Donna so.

She could be lying or she could [have?] been resurrected into a physical body after her death in The Library and appearance in Name of The Doctor. However, as jasonward said, that would rob her TV stories of any significance. There would be a lot of backlash. I would also like to point out that Moffatt's intention when creating River was that she would know The Doctor but he would not know her.



The second problem I have is that she knows there are some incarnations of The Doctor she can't meet because he hasn't met her yet. She makes a big deal out of this in the final episode of DC2. But we haven't been given a reasonable explanation of how she knows.

The TV show is silent on this matter. Therefore the explanation must be introduced retroactively (the only way Big Finish can introduce things). Therefore the explanation (when/if it comes) can be considered cheating.

Without an explanation, the knowledge itself can also be considered cheating. To me it felt like River's knowledge was suddenly added to in order to match the audience's knowledge, without explanation. Also, for no other reason than to keep the audience's knowledge valid and to create drama around that fact.



A third problem is that I am struggling to imagine a reasonable explanation of how she acquired the knowledge. Who revealed it to her, where, when and why? I can't imagine The Doctor doing so because he does not talk about himself. But this also means that I can't imagine where else the information came from (unless a paradox of information is involved: her future self reveals it to her past self).

Even if he did tell her, how closely would she follow his instructions? After all, he could be lying. And would she treat them more as "guidelines" than actual rules? (To the last point: clearly she takes the limitation very seriously, but considering we have no idea where the information comes from we can't know if her attitude wouldn't be very different if the information came from a different source.)

Because River doesn't really 'fit' with the Eighth Doctor based on what we've seen on the TV. I don't know if it was just a marketing move by BF or if they really felt 8th Doctor/River stories were important to tell. But for me the Eighth Doctor and River together is not something that works for me. If others enjoy them though, fine.

I think the question as posted in the first post disregards the obvious - that it can be a good story worth telling AND a marketing gimmick to stimulate sales at the same time. Big Finish are a business and Big Finish are storytellers. The two don't need to be treated as polar opposites. I'd never want them to just make pandering releases that are pure fan-service (though there's a small place for those) but I also wouldn't grudge Nick or David saying "We're on the 6th Mcgann boxset, maybe we should find a way to shake it up". We've seen that with the Benny boxsets, each having a "gimmick" or novelty aspect to capture the attention. Doesn't mean some of them aren't also fantastic releases.

Adding River once was fine. Not terribly sure she needed to be in the very next boxset, honestly. Might be gilding the lilly a tad.

Yes, but a mindwipe for River I think would fall under that "cheat" category that eightelements described. That's the problem with amnesia in fiction, it's often used to curtail a character's growth rather than expand them. Think about it, if River does eventually get that wipe then her experiences with Eight are meaningless to the development of who she is because she won't remember them, so why have her at all?

If Big Finish have one weakness, it's that they use their often brilliant ideas to the point where they overstay their welcome (such as Old!Nyssa, Hector, Eight/Charley). In terms of flaws, that's probably one of the best. There's never a lack of stories. Besides, it's not as if the character doesn't have her fanbase and there's definitely a lot there to explore if they keep her away from the Doctor. However, another thing to keep in mind is that there are those of us on the other side of the fence who do not like River. I can understand the cynical (and somewhat churlish) marketing standpoint because from a certain angle it can certainly feel like it. There's certainly more to it than that though. Knowing BF, I think they were just excited to put Alex Kingston in with a classic Doctor.

(Although nowadays you can never be too sure where Eight sits on that spectrum. Is Paul McGann's Doctor part of that classic line-up or is he more a NuWho incarnation now?)

Could it be simply that River is bloody annoying and sticking her in a series you're following meaning you can't simply skip it means you're forced to either put up with her or miss part of the plot?

Well, no matter how good an actor you are, it's hard to have sexual chemistry with someone young enough to be your son.

Silence/Forests only really imply that River knows Doctors after Ten. She specifically tells him "You're young...younger than I've ever seen you..." meaning that she hasn't met his previous incarnations. By the time River shows up again, the concept has...altered, somewhat, and appears to undergo further revision over the course of Series 5-7. So, as Moffat's ideas about her grew/changed on up through at least "A Good Man Goes to War," let alone "The Husbands of River Song," we can't necessarily trust her comments in Silence in the Library remain accurate.

I love River as originally presented, and I love the fire and passion and humor and class that Alex Kingston always brings to the role. Where I lose it is when Moffat uses her only as a plot device instead of a character (something he does with most, if not all, of his companions to date). If we go by only what we see on our TV screens, River has no life apart from the Doctor, and that lessens her immensely as a character. While I'm perfectly content with her occasionally showing up with classic Doctors (I'd love to see her with Five, honestly), I'd much rather BF focus on stories about her without the Doctor. When treated as an actual person instead of a Macguffin, she can be an immensely interesting and entertaining character that is just about the Doctor's equal, and can certainly carry a series on her own.

All that being said, the 24-year-long night on Darillium gives her plenty of time for more adventures (with or without Twelve). You know neither one of them could stay put in one place that long. They just have to come back.

In The Husbands of River Song, she thought that a Doctor was going to be on Mendorax Dellora.  She had a bunch of photos of all of the previous incarnations of the Doctor.  So, at this time she knew what he looked like and may have met some of them.

I think I can shed a little light on the question of how someone couldn't be excited over River's involvement in Big Finish.

I do understand that many people love River but if there's one character that has annoyed me more than Adric, it's her! This, of course, is only my opinion and it is not to devalue the opinions of others who do love the character.

My reaction comes from the overt romanticism of the premise. I had no problem with the kiss in the 1996 movie but I really think it went too far on TV beginning with Ten and the whole Rose thing, and hitting its repeated climax which each increasingly OTT River appearance. And the whole smug, self-referential "hello sweetie" thing really grates on me. As you can no doubt tell, I'm not a fan and found her to be an unwanted (from my point of view and probably not yours) intrusion into the mindscape of Big Finish (that goes for you too Adric!).

We can't like all characters and some will like characters that other people don't so I hope you don't take this as a furious rant. I really just wanted to explain for those of us who are not "excited by the prospect".  

I do agree with other comments in this thread that Big Finish is committed to the fans AND to making money/growing their company, and these two things are not incompatible. I have HUGE respect for the business they've built so more power to them if this is working for them!