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Post by constonks on Nov 19, 2016 16:36:37 GMT
I'd have revealed that the Doctor fought WITH the Daleks against the Time Lords. If done right, this could have been bloody brilliant.
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Post by kalendorf on Nov 19, 2016 22:51:00 GMT
Option one would be doing Day of the Doctor with a few significant differences. By having McGann as the War Doctor, having Susan and Romana appear in the Gallifreyan action. Romana could play the General's role, and Susan could be one of the minders with the Gallifreyan children. I'd also perhaps have the Coal Hill school setting be more plot relevant by possibly having McGann recover the Moment from here, just like his predecessor had to pick up the Hand of Omega. I'd probably include at least some voice overs from Tom, Peter, Colin and Sylvester, say by having McGann reading diary extracts of his past encounters with the Daleks. Finally, if Tom Baker was going to be the Curator I'd have him appear earlier to raise intrigue, so that when he appears and explains who he is, it feels like a pay-off rather than a sudden info-dump.
Option two, would be to translate the Unbound story, Masters of War to screen, with possibly Churchill appearing in place of the Brigadier. That way the show really does go 'back to the beginning'.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Nov 20, 2016 0:28:36 GMT
I would have done it close to how it was on screen, but would have McGann as an embittered 8, instead of The War Doctor. (That would have lead to a few we dont talk about this incarnation jokes about the TV Movie, also the marriage seen would have had McGann saying, i think i started all this). It would have been a full 2 hours The Moment would have gone through a few companions ie an older Susan and a few others, but would have settled on Rose for the longest. I would have had a few shots to The End of Time as well Rather than have Gallifrey survive, i would have a few Timelord ships escape, using the tear from End of Time. So the Doctor was able to save some people I feel like all of these are really good tweaks. I like the compromise with having a few Time Lord survivors. I think, however, that the Moment should have had Ian's form: the Doctor's original conscience and a link all the way back to '63.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Nov 20, 2016 9:50:21 GMT
I'd have revealed that the Doctor fought WITH the Daleks against the Time Lords. That would have been dark. As dark as the Doctor murdering billions of children?
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 20, 2016 10:00:13 GMT
That would have been dark. As dark as the Doctor murdering billions of children? He didn't directly murder them though. They were consequences of the Time War.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 10:04:04 GMT
That would have been dark. As dark as the Doctor murdering billions of children? Wars can be pretty nasty, I don't find it impossible to believe that this shunned incarnation would have worked for the Daleks at one point or another against the Time Lords. I can easily see the Doctor fighting for worlds where the Daleks will end up using their population as slave labour whereas the Gallifreyans would prefer to see their whole history obliterated from the Web of Time. It would be a life dominated by the Daleks, but still life nonetheless and one with a chance at rebellion. If the Daleks have long memories, then they might even approach the Doctor themselves and ask him to (under close supervision) reengineer their drones as he once did in The Evil of the Daleks. With Davros gone, he'd be the next best candidate. I think that's what I feel is missing the most about the War Doctor. Aside from the Moment, he doesn't really have to make tough decisions. This should be a guy like the Valeyard. The Doctor as we know him, but warped beyond all belief by his experiences. Despairing even. Someone whose morality has been so battered that he sides with the Daleks because he sees a much greater picture, unaware (or perhaps even uncaring) of the suffering that it causes to the individual. An incarnation who's lost perspective. The mad scientist, the warmonger, the conqueror, but still undeniably at his core -- the Doctor. The David Collings Doctor from Full Fathom Five I think fits the bill. As dark as the Doctor murdering billions of children? He didn't directly murder them though. They were consequences of the Time War. Collateral damage is an ugly, ugly phrase, but very applicable here.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Nov 20, 2016 10:07:50 GMT
As dark as the Doctor murdering billions of children? He didn't directly murder them though. They were consequences of the Time War. He activated the Moment and 2.47 billion children died. He pulled the trigger that killed them. That's not collateral damage. Endor being destroyed after the Death Star blew up is collateral damage. This is killing innocents because he saw no other way than to kill them along with everyone else.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 20, 2016 13:05:46 GMT
He didn't directly murder them though. They were consequences of the Time War. He activated the Moment and 2.47 billion children died. He pulled the trigger that killed them. That's not collateral damage. Endor being destroyed after the Death Star blew up is collateral damage. This is killing innocents because he saw no other way than to kill them along with everyone else. He didn't actually use the Moment though, he moved Gallifrey into a pocket universe. Billions of children still died as a result of the Time War. The Doctor didn't directly murder them but is indirectly responsible like all soldiers in the war for their deaths.
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 20, 2016 16:41:06 GMT
He activated the Moment and 2.47 billion children died. He pulled the trigger that killed them. That's not collateral damage. Endor being destroyed after the Death Star blew up is collateral damage. This is killing innocents because he saw no other way than to kill them along with everyone else. He didn't actually use the Moment though, he moved Gallifrey into a pocket universe. Billions of children still died as a result of the Time War. The Doctor didn't directly murder them but is indirectly responsible like all soldiers in the war for their deaths. The fact that he even considered it is pretty dark. One of the darkest moments in the show may have been when all three of the Doctors had their hands on the button, knowing full well that 2.47 billion children would die as a direct result of their actions. In that moment, he was no better than the politicians in Children of Earth.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 23:18:34 GMT
He didn't actually use the Moment though, he moved Gallifrey into a pocket universe. Billions of children still died as a result of the Time War. The Doctor didn't directly murder them but is indirectly responsible like all soldiers in the war for their deaths. The fact that he even considered it is pretty dark. One of the darkest moments in the show may have been when all three of the Doctors had their hands on the button, knowing full well that 2.47 billion children would die as a direct result of their actions. In that moment, he was no better than the politicians in Children of Earth. I can go one further, there's also the strong implication that this isn't the first iteration of the loop. The Moment notes that something's gone wrong the moment Eleven's fez drops through the rent, the latter even expected the accident complaining -- "Not now, I'm busy!" Considering that incarnation's history with messing up his own timestream and the events of The Name of the Doctor, I think that this may be the last in a long chain of possibilities where Gallifrey was destroyed and everyone was killed or Gallifrey was saved and it turned into that silent world we saw in Hell Bent. He may have actually killed all those children and that only have changed by his (potentially unseen) actions in The Name of the Doctor. If you had the opportunity to remove the blackest years of your life from your timeline would you take it?
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 21, 2016 13:01:37 GMT
I would have done it close to how it was on screen, but would have McGann as an embittered 8, instead of The War Doctor. (That would have lead to a few we dont talk about this incarnation jokes about the TV Movie, also the marriage seen would have had McGann saying, i think i started all this). It would have been a full 2 hours The Moment would have gone through a few companions ie an older Susan and a few others, but would have settled on Rose for the longest. I would have had a few shots to The End of Time as well Rather than have Gallifrey survive, i would have a few Timelord ships escape, using the tear from End of Time. So the Doctor was able to save some people I feel like all of these are really good tweaks. I like the compromise with having a few Time Lord survivors. I think, however, that the Moment should have had Ian's form: the Doctor's original conscience and a link all the way back to '63. I suppose so, but that's where i think Susan would work as well. It is a difficult one
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 4:11:09 GMT
I feel like all of these are really good tweaks. I like the compromise with having a few Time Lord survivors. I think, however, that the Moment should have had Ian's form: the Doctor's original conscience and a link all the way back to '63. I suppose so, but that's where i think Susan would work as well. It is a difficult one It could alternate depending on what exactly it's talking about. It could be Ian when addressing the Doctor on personal matters and change to Susan when discussing more cosmic things. Chesterton after all did his national service for a time as was expected back then, so there are elements of soldiering in him and his granddaughter's telepathy always lent her a more elemental otherworldliness which would fit nicely with talk of the future.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 22, 2016 12:26:12 GMT
I suppose so, but that's where i think Susan would work as well. It is a difficult one It could alternate depending on what exactly it's talking about. It could be Ian when addressing the Doctor on personal matters and change to Susan when discussing more cosmic things. Chesterton after all did his national service for a time as was expected back then, so there are elements of soldiering in him and his granddaughter's telepathy always lent her a more elemental otherworldliness which would fit nicely with talk of the future. I like that. Susan is the one who opens up the Portal and stuff like that and Ian talks about the price and says that the Doctor shall live afterwards. Bits like that
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