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Post by xlozdob on Dec 29, 2016 21:29:31 GMT
Congratulations on this brilliant story, Josh! It was gripping from the beginning and rather moving towards the end. And with a deeper message too, it struck all the right notes; what's not to love about it? You are a worthy winner of the competition. PD: Magnificent performance by Nick Briggs as always  |
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Post by kimalysong on Dec 30, 2016 1:13:48 GMT
That was a lovely story Josh, a strong character piece with a moving ending.
I am quite happy that Big Finish included the script too. I wish they did that with all Short Trips.
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Post by elkawho on Dec 30, 2016 2:34:30 GMT
Congratulations, Josh, on a beautifully written (and performed) story. I really loved it.
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Post by acousticwolf on Dec 30, 2016 8:00:39 GMT
I haven't had chance to listen to this yet, but it sounds like you deserve your addition to the "BF Creative Team" group  . Congratulations from all of us. Tony |
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Post by theotherjosh on Dec 30, 2016 9:10:51 GMT
Fun facts about the story! Sean Calvin is named for thelogian John Calvin, who held certain opinions about redemption and salvation. The Leviathan, his mind control device, is named for the best known tretise of Thomas Hobbes, which gives us a tidy Calvin and Hobbes reference. I set in a tea room because I wrote the story mostly during lulls at work. I correspond daily with my two of my best friends in a group email. One of them, Tim, hates the loud sound used to represent the pouring of tea in television shows. He was teasing me about something when I was still writing the submission, and I said "Fine! Keep it up and I'm going to set this story in a teahouse and you're going to have to listen to thirty minutes of obnoxious, overly loud tea pouring!" We never did get those sound effects, and it's my one regret about the story. The coordinates for the Leviathan's target (Nine-oblique-one-two-oblique-four-four) are a recurring number in Doctor Who. It's used for Turlogh's ID number and it is also the coordinates for Halley's Comet in Attack of the Cybermen. (It's Eric Seward's birthday.) My daughter named the Murilega Nine. A friend who teaches Arthurian lit said it was Latin for kitten (he took the diminutive of cat), but I don't know if that's true. She also came up with the name for the Uncertain-Tea Principle. The investigative reporter near the end, Samantha J Shire, is an anagram of "Sarah Jane Smith". If you're going to have a reporter in the story, you might as well use the best! When the Doctor reminds Sean that it is often the weak things of the world that confound the mighty, that's a reference to the final chapter of one of my favorite books, A Wrinkle in Time, the final chapter of which is titled "The Foolish and the Weak", and is itself a reference to 1 Corinthians 1:27. I'm not at all religious, but I do love the passage, because it captures everything I love about Doctor Who. Also, my story draws on The Curse of Fenric (the bit where the Doctor recites the name of his companions to repel the haemovores is probably my very favorite scene from Classic Who), and in that story the Reverend Wainwright quotes from 1 Corinthians 13. I didn't intend it as a deliberate reference to Fenric, but I'm happy that it worked out because it makes me look much smarter than I really am. I was having something of a crisis of faith in Doctor Who about two years ago. I fell in love with Big Finish instantly, as soon as I discovered them. I didn't know they existed, then I found them, and I fell in love with them totally and forever. I think of them as the I Ching calculator from the Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently books ("And to be able to move from total ignorance of something to total desire for it, and then actually to own the thing all within the space of about forty seconds was, for Dirk, something of an epiphany."), but I was wavering in my affection for the television series. The revived series has top notch production values, but it wasn't telling the kind of stories that interested me, and I was haunted by the suspicion that my affection for the classic series might simply be rose-tinted nostalgia for something that I loved as a child but, in point of fact, might not be all that good. But I went with a friend to (Re)Generation Who, where we caught Tom Baker's Skype address. He said that he saw the Doctor as a hero who was a nice fellow and a great source of benevolent silly things. That made me remember what I loved about the show. That's what the Doctor means to me, and why I'm not embarrassed to say I watch the show. Side story: The friend with whom I went has been a Doctor Who fan since her youth. We didn't meet until we were adults, but we each watched the show on the same public television station. I wanted to make a nod to her in the story, and, as her last name is Ancker, I named a corporation after her. It's Anicker in the final draft. Apparently, the rhyme is simply too unfortunate “Kindness” and “forgiveness” aren’t the first words that come to mind when thinking of the Seventh Doctor, so it might seem strange that he became the lead in the story. However, I’ve been a fan of Doctor Who ever since I was eight years old. As I’ve grown older and (hopefully) matured, I’ve come to appreciate aspects that I overlooked in my youth. I’ve always loved the relationship between the Doctor and Ace, but especially since I became a father, I think the aspect that resonates with me the most is what a wonderful mentor he is to Ace. He doesn’t solve her problems for her; he helps her become a person capable of solving those problems. In any given encounter, the audience is rarely in any real doubt that the Doctor will overcome his adversary. There may be unintended consequences that result from his victory, but we remain reasonably confident that Doctor is going to win at the end of the day. I’ve always been of the opinion that the Doctor considers a confrontation a failure if he’s unable to talk a villain out of a scheme. The ideal outcome isn’t overthrowing the evil genius; the ideal outcome is convincing him to turn his powers toward the betterment of humankind. If the Doctor is forced to destroy someone, then he has failed the villain, and he’s failed himself. We seldom see a story in which the adversary sees the light and walks away, because that lack of overt conflict makes it difficult to write a compelling story, but I felt the shorter stories of the Short Trips line would be the ideal format in which to explore it. That’s why the smaller, more personal stories always have the most tension for me. This is a story where the Doctor can fail. The world doesn’t end if Sean falls back into villainy. The Doctor did his best, he tried to guide Sean as he mentored Ace and he will thwart Sean if Sean returns to his dreams of conquest, but in the end, when the time comes for Sean to make his decision about who is going to be, all the Doctor can do is step back and allow him to make that choice and hope it is the right one. Or to put it another way: “Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. |
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Post by Digi on Dec 30, 2016 12:35:02 GMT
Josh - bravo. Short Trips are generally not my thing, so I hope it means something more when I say that I absolutely loved this story. Wonderfully written, touching, well-performed by Nick Briggs, and with an ending I did not see coming.
Well done. And as I just tweeted out to Big Finish, I love that it's such an affirming tribute to Paul Spragg.
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Tony Jones
Chancellery Guard
Professor Chronotis
Still rockin' along!
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Post by Tony Jones on Dec 31, 2016 13:27:26 GMT
I've never listened to any of the short trips. On average, how long are they usually? Around 30 minutes to 40 minutes depending on editing |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 18:46:13 GMT
I've never listened to any of the short trips. On average, how long are they usually? It's not a case of how long they are, it's how good they are... and they really are good.  |
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Post by constonks on Dec 31, 2016 20:35:28 GMT
(...)“Kindness” and “forgiveness” aren’t the first words that come to mind when thinking of the Seventh Doctor, so it might seem strange that he became the lead in the story. However, I’ve been a fan of Doctor Who ever since I was eight years old. As I’ve grown older and (hopefully) matured, I’ve come to appreciate aspects that I overlooked in my youth. I’ve always loved the relationship between the Doctor and Ace, but especially since I became a father, I think the aspect that resonates with me the most is what a wonderful mentor he is to Ace. He doesn’t solve her problems for her; he helps her become a person capable of solving those problems. In any given encounter, the audience is rarely in any real doubt that the Doctor will overcome his adversary. There may be unintended consequences that result from his victory, but we remain reasonably confident that Doctor is going to win at the end of the day. I’ve always been of the opinion that the Doctor considers a confrontation a failure if he’s unable to talk a villain out of a scheme. The ideal outcome isn’t overthrowing the evil genius; the ideal outcome is convincing him to turn his powers toward the betterment of humankind. If the Doctor is forced to destroy someone, then he has failed the villain, and he’s failed himself. We seldom see a story in which the adversary sees the light and walks away, because that lack of overt conflict makes it difficult to write a compelling story, but I felt the shorter stories of the Short Trips line would be the ideal format in which to explore it. That’s why the smaller, more personal stories always have the most tension for me. This is a story where the Doctor can fail. The world doesn’t end if Sean falls back into villainy. The Doctor did his best, he tried to guide Sean as he mentored Ace and he will thwart Sean if Sean returns to his dreams of conquest, but in the end, when the time comes for Sean to make his decision about who is going to be, all the Doctor can do is step back and allow him to make that choice and hope it is the right one. Or to put it another way: “Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. Oh good, I don't have to write my review. You've done it for me. Although I will add a couple points: - The Seventh Doctor is the perfect choice for this story, but I hadn't really considered the Seven-Ace mentorship aspect. I was thinking more about the way the Seventh Doctor is a "greater good" Doctor - someone willing to change time (but not too much). And even before I heard the story, I was reminded of the scene in The Happiness Patrol where the Doctor convinces the sniper not to take a shot with just his words. - I agree that this HAD to be a Short Trip. Anything else would have required a more structured, plot-driven story and it would have weakened the characters and relationships, I think. This is short-form Who at its best, not just a full-length story in miniature. - Also, I loved the "giddy aunt" joke. All in all, wonderful work. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 21:37:13 GMT
That Was beautiful. It ended in the most organic way possible but not in the way you would expect. Paul would have really been proud of that story and I do hope you continue to write for Big Finish. If you don't mind answering this question theotherjosh, are there any ranges or doctors you would like to write for? |
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Post by Star Platinum on Jan 1, 2017 5:58:29 GMT
Josh, just curious, I'm doing a run through of all the stories in as close to chronological order as they can be. When does this story take place for the Seventh Doctor?
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 1, 2017 9:54:15 GMT
Great story! The twist at the end was excellent, a really nice tale that does what I love stories to do: hint at bigger pictures and unforeseen consequences.
Question: if your daughter is writing fanfic about Sean's daughter will it be called "The Odessa File"?
...
(just getting my coat)
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Post by constonks on Jan 1, 2017 16:09:08 GMT
Josh, just curious, I'm doing a run through of all the stories in as close to chronological order as they can be. When does this story take place for the Seventh Doctor? The script says "after Survival" - I'd place it right before Thin Ice but I'd also like to hear theotherjosh's thoughts. |
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Post by theotherjosh on Jan 1, 2017 17:06:45 GMT
I do want to take a moment to thank you guys for your kind words. I'm glad that so many people enjoyed the story! Josh, just curious, I'm doing a run through of all the stories in as close to chronological order as they can be. When does this story take place for the Seventh Doctor? The script says some time after Survival. I would guess not too long after that. I didn't have any specific time in mind when I wrote it, although seeing as he mentions the haemovores, it's reasonable to infer that it comes after Fenric. That Was beautiful. It ended in the most organic way possible but not in the way you would expect. Paul would have really been proud of that story and I do hope you continue to write for Big Finish. If you don't mind answering this question theotherjosh , are there any ranges or doctors you would like to write for? I'm tempted to say the Fourth, because he was my childhood Doctor, but John Dorney writes him so well (In my opinion, The Trouble with Drax vies with City of Death for the finest Fourth Doctor story of that era), that I think anything I'd attempt would simply come across as a pale imitation of his style. So in light of that, I will deflect the question with a sarcastic non-answer and say that I'm holding out for the chance to write for Eccleston More trivia! The title is from Milton's Paradise Lost. I wanted to incorporate a title drop into the story itself, but I wasn't sure if I could manage it. I finally did work it into the story near the final draft, and I'm happy! Ian Atkins added the line "Your tea is cold." in year seven, when the Doctor meets Sean in the space station for the second time, which is of course a reference to the final lines of the original series. "Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, and somewhere else the tea's getting cold." I forget what I originally had in its place, but it wasn't nearly as good as Ian's line, and I think that was representative of the process. Ian is simply brilliant and at every step along the way, I felt like he was working collaboratively with me so that we could produce the best story we could. In Neil Gaimain's Sandman, Dream's sister Death grants eternal life to a solider named Hob Gadling in 1389. Over the course of the comic, Hob meets Dream every one hundred years in the same tavern to talk about how his eternal life is progressing. I wasn't specifically emulating this with Forever Fallen, but I was aware of the similarities as I was writing it, and I occasionally described it in such a way to people who were familiar with Sandman but not Doctor Who. I didn't submit until late in the contest, but I was working on it constantly up until then. If there is any action on my part that led to the selection of the story, I think the fact that I spent so much time polishing it is part of it.I was able to see what worked and what didn't, and I had a very clear idea of the story in my head at that point, and I was able to craft the pitch with that in mind. If you'll read the original pitch document, you'll see that the character was named Iain Calvin, rather than Sean Calvin. The first name wasn't important, except that I wanted a derivative of "John". I went with Iain because I like the Culture series by Iain Banks, in no small part because I really enjoyed The Also People. The biggest change came with the name of the planet. As you might guess from all these footnotes, I'm unable to pick some nonsense word for anything. It always has to mean something. That's just how I'm wired. I tried to follow Doctor Who naming conventions and give the planet a name that sounded like something out of Classic Who. Unfortunately, there are more than 50 years of people following those conventions, and all the good ones have been picked. The original name was "Arcadia 7". I liked that, and it sets up the "Even in Arcadia I exist" line early in the story. (That became "Even in Elysium I exist", which doesn't make all that much sense, but I kind of like it anyway.) Unfortunately, it's the name of a city on Gallifrey, so we couldn't use it. So, I pitched a number of alternatives, and Big Finish was like "No, that's a place in the new series. That' other one is used in a novel. And Argolis was the planet in the Leisure Hive. Why don't you try googling it next time?" I'm exaggerating somewhat for laughs, but this really was an area where I faced the most unforeseen difficulty. After the fact, I made the joke that I should have called it "Atlantis", because no one is going to care if there's another one of those floating around the Doctor Who universe. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 0:54:57 GMT
I do want to take a moment to thank you guys for your kind words. I'm glad that so many people enjoyed the story! Josh, just curious, I'm doing a run through of all the stories in as close to chronological order as they can be. When does this story take place for the Seventh Doctor? The script says some time after Survival. I would guess not too long after that. I didn't have any specific time in mind when I wrote it, although seeing as he mentions the haemovores, it's reasonable to infer that it comes after Fenric. That Was beautiful. It ended in the most organic way possible but not in the way you would expect. Paul would have really been proud of that story and I do hope you continue to write for Big Finish. If you don't mind answering this question theotherjosh , are there any ranges or doctors you would like to write for? I'm tempted to say the Fourth, because he was my childhood Doctor, but John Dorney writes him so well (In my opinion, The Trouble with Drax vies with City of Death for the finest Fourth Doctor story of that era), that I think anything I'd attempt would simply come across as a pale imitation of his style. So in light of that, I will deflect the question with a sarcastic non-answer and say that I'm holding out for the chance to write for Eccleston More trivia! The title is from Milton's Paradise Lost. I wanted to incorporate a title drop into the story itself, but I wasn't sure if I could manage it. I finally did work it into the story near the final draft, and I'm happy! Ian Atkins added the line "Your tea is cold." in year seven, when the Doctor meets Sean in the space station for the second time, which is of course a reference to the final lines of the original series. "Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, and somewhere else the tea's getting cold." I forget what I originally had in its place, but it wasn't nearly as good as Ian's line, and I think that was representative of the process. Ian is simply brilliant and at every step along the way, I felt like he was working collaboratively with me so that we could produce the best story we could. In Neil Gaimain's Sandman, Dream's sister Death grants eternal life to a solider named Hob Gadling in 1389. Over the course of the comic, Hob meets Dream every one hundred years in the same tavern to talk about how his eternal life is progressing. I wasn't specifically emulating this with Forever Fallen, but I was aware of the similarities as I was writing it, and I occasionally described it in such a way to people who were familiar with Sandman but not Doctor Who. I didn't submit until late in the contest, but I was working on it constantly up until then. If there is any action on my part that led to the selection of the story, I think the fact that I spent so much time polishing it is part of it.I was able to see what worked and what didn't, and I had a very clear idea of the story in my head at that point, and I was able to craft the pitch with that in mind. If you'll read the original pitch document, you'll see that the character was named Iain Calvin, rather than Sean Calvin. The first name wasn't important, except that I wanted a derivative of "John". I went with Iain because I like the Culture series by Iain Banks, in no small part because I really enjoyed The Also People. The biggest change came with the name of the planet. As you might guess from all these footnotes, I'm unable to pick some nonsense word for anything. It always has to mean something. That's just how I'm wired. I tried to follow Doctor Who naming conventions and give the planet a name that sounded like something out of Classic Who. Unfortunately, there are more than 50 years of people following those conventions, and all the good ones have been picked. The original name was "Arcadia 7". I liked that, and it sets up the "Even in Arcadia I exist" line early in the story. (That became "Even in Elysium I exist", which doesn't make all that much sense, but I kind of like it anyway.) Unfortunately, it's the name of a city on Gallifrey, so we couldn't use it. So, I pitched a number of alternatives, and Big Finish was like "No, that's a place in the new series. That' other one is used in a novel. And Argolis was the planet in the Leisure Hive. Why don't you try googling it next time?" I'm exaggerating somewhat for laughs, but this really was an area where I faced the most unforeseen difficulty. After the fact, I made the joke that I should have called it "Atlantis", because no one is going to care if there's another one of those floating around the Doctor Who universe. Thanks for more BTS info! |
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Post by theotherjosh on Jan 4, 2017 15:07:13 GMT
Thanks for more BTS info! Thank you I actually have a bit more, but I thought I might be boring people with an excessive amount of trivia, so I held off posting it. My wife and daughter were travelling over the holidays, and I was unable to join them due to work commitments, so last night was the first time we heard the story together. When I asked my daughter which performance was better, the recording or my reading of it, she said mine. "You get the voices better. Odessa isn't supposed to have an accent." (Though she wasn't bothered by the fact that in my performance, both Ace and the Doctor spoke with an accent from the American northeast.) That rather amused me. I can go now go around casually telling people "Oh, I don't mean to brag or anything, but audiences prefer me to Nicholas Briggs." |
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Post by mark687 on Jan 6, 2017 20:03:21 GMT
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Post by Polar Bear on Jan 13, 2017 12:03:53 GMT
Josh, I loved the "giddy aunt" joke, too. I really laughed a lot!
Thanks for confirming my wonderings re. Sandman & Hob.
Great BTS info on the biblical references; I'd totally missed that.
I've always been a sucker for redemptive stories--i really enjoyed yours!
Hope to hear more from you in the future!
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Post by acousticwolf on Jan 13, 2017 15:31:58 GMT
I expected this to be good after reading everyone's comments but I didn't expect it to be that good. I was totally focussed on the story and I don't know about it being a worthy winner of the competition (it's certainly that) ... but I wouldn't have any issues paying for it as part of the Monthly Short Trips releases. Very good indeed . Here's hoping it's not long before theotherjosh has more BF releases to his name. Cheers Tony EDIT: You can pay me later Josh |
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Post by theotherjosh on Jan 20, 2017 14:21:00 GMT
Josh, I loved the "giddy aunt" joke, too. I really laughed a lot! Thanks for confirming my wonderings re. Sandman & Hob. Great BTS info on the biblical references; I'd totally missed that. I've always been a sucker for redemptive stories--i really enjoyed yours! Hope to hear more from you in the future! Thank you. I do love stories of redemption. I think it’s my favorite kind of story to hear. I haven’t read the Narnia books in a long time, but the thing I’ll always remember about that them is that Edmund, who had been a traitor to his family as a boy, was crowned as King Edmund “the Just”. I like to think that he understood the quality of human suffering and extends to others the same chance for redemption that he was offered as a boy. And probably my last round of BTS stuff/trivia about the story: When I started listening to Big Finish, I wasn’t as familiar with Short Trips as I was the Monthly Range, probably for the same reason that many listeners aren’t. Short Trips are the same price as the first 50 Monthly Range stories, and you get a longer, fully voiced story with the Monthly Range, so if you have a limited amount of funding, the Monthly Range seems like the better investment. The story that convinced me that Short Trips worked best as something other than full-sized stories in miniature (to borrow a line from constonks earlier in the thread that I felt particularly cogent) was “A True Gentleman”. If you haven’t heard it, is told from the point of view of a kid from the village near where the Third Doctor lives. The tire on his bike goes flat, and the Doctor picks him up and takes him home to fix it. There’s more to it than that, but I don’t want to spoil it any more than I have. To some extent, Doctor Who stories tend to be formula fiction, in that stories about certain antagonists tend to follow a similar arc. You know Davros is going to overreach and be betrayed by his Daleks. Even if you don’t know the specifics, I think anyone who has been a fan for any amount of time has a general idea of what the conclusion will be. A True Gentleman was so enjoyable, at least for me, because I didn’t know what was going to happen. That’s also why I thought the recent short trip “A Full Life” was just so brilliant. (I remember thinking that it made me feel like I felt when I watched Doctor Who as a kid.) That's why I like this range, because it offers the chance to explore the kind of stories that would otherwise not be told. Akrasia refers to the act of the doing something against your own better judgment. I usually describe by using the fable about the fox and the scorpion. (The scorpion wants to cross a river and asks the fox for a ride. The fox says "Well, okay, but if you sting me, we're both going to drown." The scorpion climbs on his back, and as they're halfway across, stings the fox to death. As they're sinking into the river, the fox asks "Why did you do that? Now we're both going to die." and the scorpion replies "Because it's my nature.") The adjective form is usually "Akratic", but I went with Akrasian for the name of the off-screen alien menace. I think it has relevance to the story, because Sean knows what the *right* choice in every situation is, but his pride and his stubbornness prevent him from picking it at first. It scarcely bears mentioning, as anyone who spends time listening to Doctor Who audio stories will have most likely noticed it, but the lumps in the milkshake are a reference to Ace's introduction in Dragonfire. When the Doctor talks about a man who spoke of getting justice in next world, he's talking about a quote in a book by William Gaddis. A Frolic of His Own. The full quote is “Justice? -- You get justice in the next world. In this one you have the law.” and it's often featured in introductory textbooks on criminal law. Sean is probably still a young man at the beginning of the story, as when he's enumerating his accomplishments, the most recent one was accomplished at seventeen years of age. I like the cascade effect of being a good person. Sean doesn’t feel that he’s a good man, but he is striving towards the goal in part in order to make amends and to set a good example for Odessa. He wants to be the person she thinks is, and Odessa, in turn, does her best to live up to what she sees as his legacy. I love the idea that he’s her "talisman against the haemovores", that this broken man who doesn’t believe in himself has become the inspiration for a genuinely good person. I think that's my favorite line in the script as written, but Nick's delivery of the bit about the trains running on time was so good that that's my favorite line in the story as read. Also, I like the giddy aunt joke a lot. Odessa's first and middle names come from names I wanted to use for my daughter, but on which I was overruled by my wife. She felt that our daughter would wind up with the nickname “Odie”, which is a reasonable concern. I still get choked up by the church scene in Fenric, goofy rubber masks and all. I showed the clip to my daughter and explained what was happening, and how the Doctor was driving away the monsters, and I asked her if she knew what belief I would focus on to drive the monsters away. She thought for a moment and said “Our cats!” then added “I’m just kidding. I know it’s me and mommy. I just didn’t want to seem braggy.” I think that’s one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me and I’m happy Doctor Who could give us that moment. |
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