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Post by shallacatop on Feb 26, 2017 9:20:17 GMT
I enjoyed it myself. A little too much technobabble in places, but I thought it was good. I didn't find the Doctor's decision uncharacteristic, but I did felt that there was perhaps a scene missing where he'd come to the realisation.
Brilliant range overall. It's been a pleasure to listen to.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Feb 26, 2017 12:09:04 GMT
Still waiting for my CD to arrive, just wondering does this lead (or seem to lead) directly into Engines Of War or Day Of The Doctor?
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Post by sherlock on Feb 26, 2017 12:11:52 GMT
Still waiting for my CD to arrive, just wondering does this lead (or seem to lead) directly into Engines Of War or Day Of The Doctor? No, at least not that I spotted
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Feb 26, 2017 12:13:48 GMT
Still waiting for my CD to arrive, just wondering does this lead (or seem to lead) directly into Engines Of War or Day Of The Doctor? No. Cheers. I wonder if Hurt would have agreed to do more audios? I was under the impression (as much as he seemed to enjoy himself) that he largely agreed to do them because he was looking for work he could manage with his illness, curious to hear how much of a finale this is...
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Post by chapwithwings on Feb 26, 2017 17:46:49 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 22:35:12 GMT
I will never get over the creepy lobotomised tones of The Dalek Time Stratiegist.
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 26, 2017 23:43:03 GMT
The ending works on several different levels.
It works as a lead in to The Day of the Doctor. Equally, it works as a lead in to Engines of War, depending how you personally place that adventure in relation to the twelve Big Finish audios. Most importantly, it works as an ambiguous ending to the War Doctor range from Big Finish, but it also serves as an appropriate ending to the story arc that was built up throughout the four sets for the War Doctor and Ollistra.
Personally, I like to think that the twelve Big Finish audios, Engines of War and The Day of the Doctor happen pretty much consecutively, give or take a couple of gaps. I like the idea of the official War Doctor stories dealing with the very end of his life in the build up to that decision to use The Moment. For me, it provides the War Doctor with an era, whilst barely scratching the surface of that long and terrible time, retaining the mystery of the Time War.
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Feb 27, 2017 10:04:08 GMT
Accidentally posted this in the wrong thread. Just moving it here. I mentioned this in the Listening Thread, but there's just one thing that really bugs me about this set. It's brilliant, each episode with a unique spin on a War story. I love the music as they drift off into a psychedelic plain in Episode 3. Everything's awesome, bar the ending sentiment, which almost felt like a bad joke. Throughout the story, they go out of their way to point out how hard the Doctor is on himself despite his constant self-beration, multiple times in fact; "You keep telling yourself that", "You have the same kind eyes". The story ends with Leela saying he's not the monster he thinks he is, and he responds by saying "I am. In fact, I'm the worst of them all." It's so hyberbolic, it really just threw me. I mean, it probably won't bother me now that I'm expecting it, and I really do like these stories, but the ending line just felt really awkward. And that gets to the fundamental problem with the concept of a War Doctor: to deserve his self-deprecation he would have to do something non-Doctorish. Yet he never really did. As The Doctor, he has killed when necessary, caused to be killed where necessary, and talked others into getting themselves killed. Avoiding killing isn't some kind of absolute pacifist mandate. He will do it where absolutely necessary, and he can see a lot farther than most to determine when something is indeed absolutely necessary. All along the series, we hear him announcing he's fought the war so long and done so many terrible things that he doesn't deserve the title "The Doctor", yet he never actually does anything that seems to line up with that. It supposedly all happened before the BF series picks up and, one would think, crystallizes when he burns Gallifrey. I think they should have taken a great risk and had him do things that really were not Doctory. Things that were Valeyard-like, except in favor of the Time Lords. Things that would believably lead him down the path to ultimately killing all Daleks and all Timelords in one fell swoop. I loved the series and I loved the performances. I think this all adds up to a disagreement with a War Doctor who is different in any respect other than the use of The Moment to save the universe, perhaps multiverse - an act I can see The Doctor (not "war") doing when nothing else is possible. The question remains: why does he already consider himself a monster at the beginning of the audios......? I'm in total agreemon, but TBH, I had come to terms with that, and it seemed like the Audios had too, the way they were constantly lamp-shading it. That just made the statement at the end all the more jarring. They could have ended it a bit sooner, with the Doctor is worried the War will never stop. That's a great down note to end on. Or maybe with the Doctor lamenting that they're all monsters until this thing ends, and maybe they'll never recover from this warrior state. When other Time Lords are going around blowing up planets or playing the system, when the Daleks go out of their way to kill just because they can, when the Doctor is willing to give his own life to end it all and his friends even point it out to him, "I'm the worst of them all" rings so incredibly false, to the point where he's just flat-out fetishizing his own misery. Maybe that's how he lost Angie and the kids... I cannot stress enough though, other than this small grievance, still a great set. I hate to focus on the one part that didn't work for me, but it's only because the rest of it was so good.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 27, 2017 10:09:25 GMT
I will never get over the creepy lobotomised tones of The Dalek Time Stratiegist. It always sounded to me like Briggs in Sherlock Holmes mode speaking into the Dalek vocaliser.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 27, 2017 10:15:24 GMT
Accidentally posted this in the wrong thread. Just moving it here. And that gets to the fundamental problem with the concept of a War Doctor: to deserve his self-deprecation he would have to do something non-Doctorish. Yet he never really did. As The Doctor, he has killed when necessary, caused to be killed where necessary, and talked others into getting themselves killed. Avoiding killing isn't some kind of absolute pacifist mandate. He will do it where absolutely necessary, and he can see a lot farther than most to determine when something is indeed absolutely necessary. All along the series, we hear him announcing he's fought the war so long and done so many terrible things that he doesn't deserve the title "The Doctor", yet he never actually does anything that seems to line up with that. It supposedly all happened before the BF series picks up and, one would think, crystallizes when he burns Gallifrey. I think they should have taken a great risk and had him do things that really were not Doctory. Things that were Valeyard-like, except in favor of the Time Lords. Things that would believably lead him down the path to ultimately killing all Daleks and all Timelords in one fell swoop. I loved the series and I loved the performances. I think this all adds up to a disagreement with a War Doctor who is different in any respect other than the use of The Moment to save the universe, perhaps multiverse - an act I can see The Doctor (not "war") doing when nothing else is possible. The question remains: why does he already consider himself a monster at the beginning of the audios......? I'm in total agreemon, but TBH, I had come to terms with that, and it seemed like the Audios had too, the way they were constantly lamp-shading it. That just made the statement at the end all the more jarring. They could have ended it a bit sooner, with the Doctor is worried the War will never stop. That's a great down note to end on. Or maybe with the Doctor lamenting that they're all monsters until this thing ends, and maybe they'll never recover from this warrior state. When other Time Lords are going around blowing up planets or playing the system, when the Daleks go out of their way to kill just because they can, when the Doctor is willing to give his own life to end it all and his friends even point it out to him, "I'm the worst of them all" rings so incredibly false, to the point where he's just flat-out fetishizing his own misery. Maybe that's how he lost Angie and the kids... EDIT: I cannot stress enough though, other than this small grievance, still a great set. I hate to focus on the one part that didn't work for me, but it's only because the rest of it was so good. I don't think it's a case of fetishising his own misery. I think a problem is people seem to expect the war Doctor to be an outright monster, which he's never been shown to be. When he says 'I'm the worst of them all' it's more indicative of his self-loathing which could derive from his creation. The war Doctor sees himself as a traitor to everything he's stood for all his lives, that's why he's the worst because the Time Lords have always been so ruthless but he's always been better than that. And now he's not. He's given up, become what he was fighting-and he hates himself for it. The war Doctor has given up and just does what he has to do, and hates himself for doing so. There's plenty of examples of him just doing what he has to do. {Spoiler} (The implications in the flashbacks in The Innocent, his dispatching of the Dalek Agent to a fate he admits is worse than death in The Shadow Vortex, his deactivation of the Eternity Cage allowing the Daleks to slaughter a planet conquered by the Sontarans and in doing so sentencing its innocent residents to death in The Eternity Cage) This ultimately leads to him utterly giving up and being ready to do what he has to do in contemplating using the Moment. It's only meeting his future selves that allows him to find hope of finding another way, and indeed that hope does enable him to find another way.
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Feb 27, 2017 11:34:15 GMT
I don't think it's a case of fetishising his own misery. I think a problem is people seem to expect the war Doctor to be an outright monster, which he's never been shown to be. When he says 'I'm the worst of them all' it's more indicative of his self-loathing which could derive from his creation. The war Doctor sees himself as a traitor to everything he's stood for all his lives, that's why he's the worst because the Time Lords have always been so ruthless but he's always been better than that. And now he's not. He's given up, become what he was fighting-and he hates himself for it. The war Doctor has given up and just does what he has to do, and hates himself for doing so. There's plenty of examples of him just doing what he has to do. {Spoiler}(The implications in the flashbacks in The Innocent, his dispatching of the Dalek Agent to a fate he admits is worse than death in The Shadow Vortex, his deactivation of the Eternity Cage allowing the Daleks to slaughter a planet conquered by the Sontarans and in doing so sentencing its innocent residents to death in The Eternity Cage) This ultimately leads to him utterly giving up and being ready to do what he has to do in contemplating using the Moment. It's only meeting his future selves that allows him to find hope of finding another way, and indeed that hope does enable him to find another way. I just don't feel like there's any strong distinction between those actions and the Doctor's regular way of opperating. Just always trying to find the best solution, even if it's the lesser of evils. What you posit, that the Doctor thinks he's the worst because he's fallen further, is actually interesting, even if I don't think it's true. But I re-listened to the scene, and that feeling isn't implicit at all. It's not unusual for me to read into things into Doctor Who, and compartmentalise it differently to fix problems I have with it, but I've never had to do it more than with The War Doctor. I just feel like he's consistently been the subject of bad framing, somewhat in vain as well, as it feels like the only reason for that is to explain why he isn't a numbered Doctor.
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 27, 2017 14:27:26 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 21:33:36 GMT
I put off listening to this final chapter 'The Enigma Dimension' until today because I didn't want BF's War Doctor story to end. I couldn't bear it any longer, and now the bombastic music suite at the end of the disc compels me to write about how brilliant I thought this last chapter was, and how superb the series has been as a whole. Basically a four-hander, Hurt, Jameson, Pearce and Briggs are on top dramatic form bringing this to an end in a way trhat thankfully avoids cliche, avoids the posturing that occasionally mars the TV show (I say this as a big fan of the TV show). Lovely, mighty, mysterious, ethereal and magical. This, I think, is the best thing Nick Briggs has written since the first box-set which had a cohesive qaulity not quite matched in subsequent releases. Lovely stuff. Thoroughly enjoyed it, and I look forward to giving it all another listen in the not-too-distant future. RIP The War Doctor.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Mar 1, 2017 21:38:40 GMT
I put off listening to this final chapter 'The Enigma Dimension' until today because I didn't want BF's War Doctor story to end. I couldn't bear it any longer, and now the bombastic music suite at the end of the disc compels me to write about how brilliant I thought this last chapter was, and how superb the series has been as a whole. Basically a four-hander, Hurt, Jameson, Pearce and Briggs are on top dramatic form bringing this to an end in a way trhat thankfully avoids cliche, avoids the posturing that occasionally mars the TV show (I say this as a big fan of the TV show). Lovely, mighty, mysterious, ethereal and magical. This, I think, is the best thing Nick Briggs has written since the first box-set which had a cohesive qaulity not quite matched in subsequent releases. Lovely stuff. Thoroughly enjoyed it, and I look forward to giving it all another listen in the not-too-distant future. RIP The War Doctor. I would strongly agree with almost all of that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 5:57:20 GMT
In the new DWM there's a lot of, as you'd imagine, of paying tribute to John. One part of the piece reveals plans were afoot for 4 more boxsets with The War Doctor and that recording of what would have been the first one of the four was cancelled due to John's ill-health late last year To think they were written and ready to go and now just sit there never to be performed by the great man is very sobering. I think it also explains why Casualties didn't wrap things up, or feel like a finale, in the ways many expected - it was only supposed to be the end of a chapter, not the War Doctor's full BF story.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 11:14:41 GMT
To think they were written and ready to go and now just sit there never to be performed by the great man is very sobering. Yeah, that has just made me feel sad.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 0:06:28 GMT
I will never get over the creepy lobotomised tones of The Dalek Time Stratiegist. It always sounded to me like Briggs in Sherlock Holmes mode speaking into the Dalek vocaliser.
It can be two things But there's very much a creepy sense of the Dalek Time Controller's personality - all that fury and passion - struggling to forcome underneath. And failing.
It's disturbing as hell.
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Post by Timelord007 on Mar 15, 2017 8:33:48 GMT
Loved it, fantastic storytelling & excellent performances help create a intriguing, tense & dramatic conclusion to a excellent 4 series arc.
John may have sadly passed on but the War Doctor will live forever in our hearts.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Mar 16, 2017 0:44:44 GMT
I'm pondering how much of the proposed material could be repurposed for (a) 8's early days in the Time War or (b) a War Doctor set of Short Trips or CC style releases. I say "CC style" because of the lack of a regular companion. Unless we get it from Ollistra!
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Post by relativetime on Mar 16, 2017 2:59:17 GMT
I'm pondering how much of the proposed material could be repurposed for (a) 8's early days in the Time War or (b) a War Doctor set of Short Trips or CC style releases. I say "CC style" because of the lack of a regular companion. Unless we get it from Ollistra! I think once enough time has passed, I'd really, really like a Companion Chronicles style release with Ollistra. I'm interested to see where her story ends and we wouldn't get that with the 8th Doctor Time War stories.
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