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Post by sailorhaumea on Dec 20, 2016 23:53:01 GMT
This is directed at the creative team.
The TARDIS Data Core is saying "oh, it's a different universe", as if that's literal - in one universe is Dorian Gray, the other is Doctor Who.
But were you speaking literally, or figuratively, as in it's standalone?
That is, is the intent behind that statement that they're literally in separate universes, or that they're distinct series that are connected, but Dorian Gray is its own thing?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 10:07:04 GMT
I'd never impose anything on listeners either way...
For me, however, they're separate worlds. Dorian doesn't have aliens, or exist in a world of UNIT and Torchwood, etc. And Doctor Who doesn't really have the supernatural (those stories with supernatural trappings tend to have a scientific rationale behind them).
I've always said the Dorian in Shades of Gray (Bernice Summerfield) is different from the Confessions Dorian. The performances, for one, are wildly different, even though they're played by the same actor. Worlds of Big Finish features a mash-up collision of universes, so that features the Confessions Dorian, and arguably it's only Iris who crosses between the universes - keeping Sherlock/Dorian in their worlds, and Graceless/Benny/Vienna in theirs.
Similarly, The Picture of Dorian Gray is another Dorian altogether, given the fate he invites upon himself at the end of Wilde's novel.
Hope this helps!
Scott
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Post by constonks on Dec 22, 2016 23:51:22 GMT
Yeah, I agree with you on that distinction. Iris is a wildcard, floating in and out of the DWU on a whim, but the other ones are pretty clearly linked IMO.
The real question is how All-Consuming Fire fits into this. In the original novel, it was made clear that "Sherlock" and "Watson" were cover identities imposed by Arthur Conan Doyle:
If that doesn't muddy the heck out of the waters, I don't know what would.
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Post by chapwithwings on Jan 8, 2017 14:15:21 GMT
I always assumed they were in the same universe. Holmes meets Dorian, and Holmes also meets the Doctor in All Consuming Fire.
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Post by sailorhaumea on Jan 21, 2017 21:45:35 GMT
I'd never impose anything on listeners either way... For me, however, they're separate worlds. Dorian doesn't have aliens, or exist in a world of UNIT and Torchwood, etc. And Doctor Who doesn't really have the supernatural (those stories with supernatural trappings tend to have a scientific rationale behind them). I've always said the Dorian in Shades of Gray (Bernice Summerfield) is different from the Confessions Dorian. The performances, for one, are wildly different, even though they're played by the same actor. Worlds of Big Finish features a mash-up collision of universes, so that features the Confessions Dorian, and arguably it's only Iris who crosses between the universes - keeping Sherlock/Dorian in their worlds, and Graceless/Benny/Vienna in theirs. Similarly, The Picture of Dorian Gray is another Dorian altogether, given the fate he invites upon himself at the end of Wilde's novel. Hope this helps! Scott Well, should the Tardis Data Core cover the entire series? Is it part of the Doctor Who multiverse, so to speak? |
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Post by omega on Jan 21, 2017 23:04:23 GMT
Just a word of caution about the TARDIS Data Core. The Admin have a strong belief over what is and isn't part of the Doctor Who universe that can conflict with other opinions, and are stubborn in this belief.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jan 22, 2017 0:10:21 GMT
Just a word of caution about the TARDIS Data Core. The Admin have a strong belief over what is and isn't part of the Doctor Who universe that can conflict with other opinions, and are stubborn in this belief. We'll not mention Vienna then  |
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Post by omega on Jan 22, 2017 0:20:56 GMT
Just a word of caution about the TARDIS Data Core. The Admin have a strong belief over what is and isn't part of the Doctor Who universe that can conflict with other opinions, and are stubborn in this belief. We'll not mention Vienna then Or Graceless. However it's perfectly valid for the Graceless girls and Vienna having adventures completely separate from the Doctor, Dorian inhabits are far more different world. As has been pointed out Doctor Who is more about aliens and other-worldly beings, while Dorian is about the supernatural, mysticism and the unknown. It's far more likely Dorian is in the same continuity as Dark Shadows than Doctor Who. As for both Dorian and the Doctor encountering Sherlock Holmes, it's possible Holmes is a multiversal constant*, someone who appears in some form or another, be it as a fictional character or actual person, in many media continuities. Besides, the original novel All-Consuming Fire makes it very ambiguous as to how much of the story actually happened and is canon, something that didn't quite make it into the audio adaptation. When Jago and Litefoot encounter Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in their audio series (7.1 The Monstrous Menagerie), Doyle states Holmes was always fictional despite the beliefs of readers of the Strand. *I read the term in a recent issue of Nightwing, and it seemed apt for this context |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 0:30:47 GMT
We'll not mention Vienna then Or Graceless. However it's perfectly valid for the Graceless girls and Vienna having adventures completely separate from the Doctor, Dorian inhabits are far more different world. As has been pointed out Doctor Who is more about aliens and other-worldly beings, while Dorian is about the supernatural, mysticism and the unknown. It's far more likely Dorian is in the same continuity as Dark Shadows than Doctor Who. As for both Dorian and the Doctor encountering Sherlock Holmes, it's possible Holmes is a multiversal constant*, someone who appears in some form or another, be it as a fictional character or actual person, in many media continuities. Besides, the original novel All-Consuming Fire makes it very ambiguous as to how much of the story actually happened and is canon, something that didn't quite make it into the audio adaptation. When Jago and Litefoot encounter Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in their audio series (7.1 The Monstrous Menagerie), Doyle states Holmes was always fictional despite the beliefs of readers of the Strand. *I read the term in a recent issue of Nightwing, and it seemed apt for this contextHow do they explain their appearances in the main range? |
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Post by omega on Jan 22, 2017 0:39:11 GMT
Or Graceless. However it's perfectly valid for the Graceless girls and Vienna having adventures completely separate from the Doctor, Dorian inhabits are far more different world. As has been pointed out Doctor Who is more about aliens and other-worldly beings, while Dorian is about the supernatural, mysticism and the unknown. It's far more likely Dorian is in the same continuity as Dark Shadows than Doctor Who. As for both Dorian and the Doctor encountering Sherlock Holmes, it's possible Holmes is a multiversal constant*, someone who appears in some form or another, be it as a fictional character or actual person, in many media continuities. Besides, the original novel All-Consuming Fire makes it very ambiguous as to how much of the story actually happened and is canon, something that didn't quite make it into the audio adaptation. When Jago and Litefoot encounter Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in their audio series (7.1 The Monstrous Menagerie), Doyle states Holmes was always fictional despite the beliefs of readers of the Strand. *I read the term in a recent issue of Nightwing, and it seemed apt for this contextHow do they explain their appearances in the main range? I wasn't aware Sherlock Holmes or Watson appeared in the Main Range. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 1:19:24 GMT
How do they explain their appearances in the main range? I wasn't aware Sherlock Holmes or Watson appeared in the Main Range. Sorry, meant Graceless and Vienna. Apologies. |
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Post by omega on Jan 22, 2017 1:32:11 GMT
I wasn't aware Sherlock Holmes or Watson appeared in the Main Range. Sorry, meant Graceless and Vienna. Apologies. Graceless and Vienna originated in the Main Range, but went on to have their own adventures that the Doctor never got involved with. It's Shrodinger's Spin-Off, with nothing to confirm not discount that they still take place in the main continuity. Personally, I subscribe to that they are in the same universe as the Doctor, just that they never meet or influence each others adventures. If Benny can have all the adventures she's had and still be undeniably in canon, then the same can be applied to the Graceless girls and Vienna. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 1:35:57 GMT
Sorry, meant Graceless and Vienna. Apologies. Graceless and Vienna originated in the Main Range, but went on to have their own adventures that the Doctor never got involved with. It's Shrodinger's Spin-Off, with nothing to confirm not discount that they still take place in the main continuity. Personally, I subscribe to that they are in the same universe as the Doctor, just that they never meet or influence each others adventures. If Benny can have all the adventures she's had and still be undeniably in canon, then the same can be applied to the Graceless girls and Vienna. Fair enough. Thanks and sorry again for the confusion. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 9:38:06 GMT
I always assumed they were in the same universe. Holmes meets Dorian, and Holmes also meets the Doctor in All Consuming Fire. I always assumed this story was out of the usual universe and somewhere in the Land Of Fiction tbh since Jago and Litefoot meet his creator and Jags and Litefoot exist in the Doctors universe then all Consuming Fire took place in an alternative universe.well that clears it up in my mind hahaha |
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Post by Zagreus on Aug 9, 2018 6:02:01 GMT
I always assumed they were in the same universe. Holmes meets Dorian, and Holmes also meets the Doctor in All Consuming Fire. I always assumed this story was out of the usual universe and somewhere in the Land Of Fiction tbh since Jago and Litefoot meet his creator and Jags and Litefoot exist in the Doctors universe then all Consuming Fire took place in an alternative universe.well that clears it up in my mind hahaha Dorian also meets Benny and co in his pilot story (which also has a Dark Shadows crossover in it heh). Dorian is also in the Worlds Of set which involves Iris and the Graceless Twins as well. I think Dorian might have crossed over with the most ranges of all the BF characters, now that I think of it... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 6:19:50 GMT
I always assumed this story was out of the usual universe and somewhere in the Land Of Fiction tbh since Jago and Litefoot meet his creator and Jags and Litefoot exist in the Doctors universe then all Consuming Fire took place in an alternative universe.well that clears it up in my mind hahaha Dorian also meets Benny and co in his pilot story (which also has a Dark Shadows crossover in it heh). Dorian is also in the Worlds Of set which involves Iris and the Graceless Twins as well. I think Dorian might have crossed over with the most ranges of all the BF characters, now that I think of it... Thanks for the potential warnings lol of things to avoid hahaha |
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Post by Zagreus on Aug 9, 2018 6:24:42 GMT
Dorian also meets Benny and co in his pilot story (which also has a Dark Shadows crossover in it heh). Dorian is also in the Worlds Of set which involves Iris and the Graceless Twins as well. I think Dorian might have crossed over with the most ranges of all the BF characters, now that I think of it... Thanks for the potential warnings lol of things to avoid hahaha Waaaah? Why in the world would you avoid them? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 6:51:21 GMT
Thanks for the potential warnings lol of things to avoid hahaha Waaaah? Why in the world would you avoid them? 😝 |
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Post by xlozdob on Aug 22, 2018 13:19:08 GMT
I always assumed they were in the same universe. Holmes meets Dorian, and Holmes also meets the Doctor in All Consuming Fire. I always assumed this story was out of the usual universe and somewhere in the Land Of Fiction tbh since Jago and Litefoot meet his creator and Jags and Litefoot exist in the Doctors universe then all Consuming Fire took place in an alternative universe.well that clears it up in my mind hahaha Doesn't have to be. The true identities of Holmes and Watson that Doyle is protecting could indeed be those of Vastra and Jenny, as it's been suggested before. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 14:00:14 GMT
I always assumed this story was out of the usual universe and somewhere in the Land Of Fiction tbh since Jago and Litefoot meet his creator and Jags and Litefoot exist in the Doctors universe then all Consuming Fire took place in an alternative universe.well that clears it up in my mind hahaha Doesn't have to be. The true identities of Holmes and Watson that Doyle is protecting could indeed be those of Vastra and Jenny, as it's been suggested before. yes,maybe but not in my minds universe😝 |
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