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Post by dastari on Dec 23, 2016 20:21:40 GMT
I just re-listened to this one. I thought it was well acted on Maureen O'Brien's part, although it's clear that they don't have a clear idea of what a Companion Chronicle will be like yet. She narrates more than says any dialog. The story was also pretty good, although they never explain how if the Phoenix/Cinder/Egg are caught in a timeloop how the Cinder says that the Phoenix has destroyed thousands of worlds. It's never had the chance. It's always stopped before it succeeds. Jane Austen was awesome. I wish that we could have had more with her. Her interaction with both the Doctor and Vicki was fun, and I love the idea of this prim and proper 19th century woman having a mean right-hook and wanting to go off on adventures. The Cinder fell flat for me. It seemed to played for laughs rather than as a credible threat, which was at odds of Vicki's description of the egg and phoenix. The one thing that really bothered me was the trope that a companion's life has to be awful after they leave the Doctor. The books and audios had done that for years by the time this story came out, and it always annoys me. I like the idea that travel with the Doctor expands horizons and improves one's life rather than everyone being miserable afterwards. I never understood why the authors love to do that. I posted some more thoughts here. |
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 24, 2016 11:45:21 GMT
I really like Frostfire, I think it's a great start to the series. But, I agree that they really don't know what they are doing format wise, and I would have like a little more backstory.
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Post by omega on Dec 24, 2016 11:58:07 GMT
Like you say it's the curse of the pilot episode, there are kinks in the format to be worked out. The first season is like this, as all four were released in January 2007, so not much time between the production of the four to see what worked and what didn't. Season two has some kinks worked out but IMO it's series three where the writers reach the right balance and begin to get creative.
The trickiest thing I've found listening to the CCs is the framing sequence. Some stories go further just for the sake of having it. Some stories are able to weave it effortlessly into the narrative, sometimes becoming just as if not more compelling than the story being told. Some stories don't have a framing sequence and just have the companion recount the story,
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 24, 2016 12:06:14 GMT
Like you say it's the curse of the pilot episode, there are kinks in the format to be worked out. The first season is like this, as all four were released in January 2007, so not much time between the production of the four to see what worked and what didn't. Season two has some kinks worked out but IMO it's series three where the writers reach the right balance and begin to get creative. The trickiest thing I've found listening to the CCs is the framing sequence. Some stories go further just for the sake of having it. Some stories are able to weave it effortlessly into the narrative, sometimes becoming just as if not more compelling than the story being told. Some stories don't have a framing sequence and just have the companion recount the story, What is your avatar? Ive been trying to figure it out, it looks like Luc from Suikoden 3, at least the mask does, though the haircut, maybe not. |
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Post by omega on Dec 24, 2016 12:12:14 GMT
Like you say it's the curse of the pilot episode, there are kinks in the format to be worked out. The first season is like this, as all four were released in January 2007, so not much time between the production of the four to see what worked and what didn't. Season two has some kinks worked out but IMO it's series three where the writers reach the right balance and begin to get creative. The trickiest thing I've found listening to the CCs is the framing sequence. Some stories go further just for the sake of having it. Some stories are able to weave it effortlessly into the narrative, sometimes becoming just as if not more compelling than the story being told. Some stories don't have a framing sequence and just have the companion recount the story, What is your avatar? Ive been trying to figure it out, it looks like Luc from Suikoden 3, at least the mask does, though the haircut, maybe not. It's Kyle Rayner of Green Lantern fame as he is depicted in The Omega Men (which you should read by the way). The picture I've used for my avatar is from issue 5. The plot is Kyle being held prisoner by terrorist group The Omega Men while trying to negotiate peace between them and the Citadel, the authority in the Vega system where the story is set. It's got a Blake's 7, Firefly feel to it. It's very well written with a deep plot and three dimensional characters who aren't necessarily the good guys. The writer, Tom King, wrote another highly received title, Vision, for Marvel and is currently writing the Batman title. |
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 24, 2016 12:34:23 GMT
I remember Kyle, I owned a comic shop during that whole Hal Jordan mess. That was a great story. I read the original run of Omega Men many years ago, didn't lobo come from that? anyway, I might check it out. And I had no idea that Vision ever had his own title, other than Ultimate and him and scarlet witch, though I may have a mini series of his, from back in the late 90's or early 2000's.
Sorry, got a little off topic, I'm really good at that.
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Post by omega on Dec 24, 2016 12:41:15 GMT
I remember Kyle, I owned a comic shop during that whole Hal Jordan mess. That was a great story. I read the original run of Omega Men many years ago, didn't lobo come from that? anyway, I might check it out. And I had no idea that Vision ever had his own title, other than Ultimate and him and scarlet witch, though I may have a mini series of his, from back in the late 90's or early 2000's. Sorry, got a little off topic, I'm really good at that. It's very recent, last year. Both trades are now available, and Omega Men's twelve issues are collected in one trade. It's called The End is Near. Any necessary Kyle backstory will be given to you. Issue 4 covers that. Back to Frostfire. I love the concept of the Frost Fair. Seems almost romantic, perfect for Jane Austen then. |
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Post by dastari on Dec 26, 2016 4:44:49 GMT
Back to Frostfire. I love the concept of the Frost Fair. Seems almost romantic, perfect for Jane Austen then. If there's one thing that this story does really well, it's building up the atmosphere. The Frost Fair is part of that. London is celebrating the unnatural cold, not realizing that things are going to keep getting worse and worse unless the Phoenix can be stopped. |
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Post by omega on Dec 26, 2016 4:51:03 GMT
Back to Frostfire. I love the concept of the Frost Fair. Seems almost romantic, perfect for Jane Austen then. If there's one thing that this story does really well, it's building up the atmosphere. The Frost Fair is part of that. London is celebrating the unnatural cold, not realizing that things are going to keep getting worse and worse unless the Phoenix can be stopped. That's one of the benefits of the narration. The narrator can draw attention to these settings and moments without the writer forcing the characters to remark upon them all the time. As we hear later in the range it also gives the POV companion's perspective on them as well, furthering the appeal of the style of the range. |
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Post by omega on Jan 1, 2017 3:49:02 GMT
 Released January 2007 (CD only)SynopsisVicki has a tale to tell. But where does it start and when does it end? Ancient Carthage. 1164 BC. Lady Cressida has a secret. She keeps it deep in the cisterns below the Temple of Astarte with only one flame for warmth. And it must never get out. Regency London, 1814 AD. The first Doctor, Steven and Vicki go to the fair and meet the fiery Dragon, the novelist Miss Austen and the deadliest weather you ever did see. But which comes first? The Future or the Past? The Phoenix or the Egg? The Fire or the Frost? Or will Time freeze over forever? Written By: Marc Platt Directed By: Mark J Thompson CASTMaureen O'Brien (Vicki), Keith Drinkel (The Cinder) |
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Post by omega on Dec 31, 2017 9:49:15 GMT
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Post by Ela on Jun 21, 2018 6:15:42 GMT
This was an interesting story, overall. The framing device worked well, I thought. The one thing that really bothered me was the trope that a companion's life has to be awful after they leave the Doctor. I didn't see this as a trope at all, but attributed to the fact that Vicki was from the future and got left in the distant past. I have no doubt she found it difficult to not have the technological amenities to which she had become accustomed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 6:36:39 GMT
This was an interesting story, overall. The framing device worked well, I thought. The one thing that really bothered me was the trope that a companion's life has to be awful after they leave the Doctor. I didn't see this as a trope at all, but attributed to the fact that Vicki was from the future and got left in the distant past. I have no doubt she found it difficult to not have the technological amenities to which she had become accustomed. I think Vicki would be okay, though. She was trapped on Dido for quite a while with Bennett, she'd have the skill to pull herself through. The framing story of Frostfire feels a bit like the teething process before she'd settled in comfortably to the period. A bit like Romana's troubles in E-Space before her return to Gallifrey later on. It's life's little ups and downs and, after travelling with the Doctor, they're stronger for dealing with it. |
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Post by Ela on Jun 21, 2018 13:33:53 GMT
Yes, I agree.
She does mention missing certain aspects of modern life, though.
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Post by dastari on Jun 21, 2018 17:18:12 GMT
This was an interesting story, overall. The framing device worked well, I thought. The one thing that really bothered me was the trope that a companion's life has to be awful after they leave the Doctor. I didn't see this as a trope at all, but attributed to the fact that Vicki was from the future and got left in the distant past. I have no doubt she found it difficult to not have the technological amenities to which she had become accustomed. While I agree with you that Vicki is the companion from the classic series most likely to regret leaving the Doctor, I have an issue with the writers going back and making it look like everyone's life sucked afterwards. The books did it with Mel, Peri, Jo, Victoria, etc. Call me old fashioned, but I like to believe that traveling with the Doctor enriches the companions' lives. Keep in mind that Frostfire was written before the new series spoke up about some of those companions and changed their stories to happy ones. Since the series presented it as a "good thing" that Vicki got to be with Troilus I'd have liked for it to stay that way even if I have a hard time believing it myself. Heck, Troilus had to leave his people because they thought Vicki was a witch and she has no friends and only has the Cinder for company. It doesn't sound particularly good. |
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Post by Ela on Jun 21, 2018 18:20:24 GMT
You make some good points.
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Post by davygallagher on Jun 21, 2018 19:07:48 GMT
Are you doing a big back catalogue listen through Ela or just picking some?
I did a MR listen through about 7 or 8 years ago but there's so much BF now I'm not sure I'd ever manage it again with all the spinoff ranges.
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Post by Ela on Jun 21, 2018 19:11:16 GMT
Are you doing a big back catalogue listen through Ela or just picking some? I did a MR listen through about 7 or 8 years ago but there's so much BF now I'm not sure I'd ever manage it again with all the spinoff ranges. First time listen to releases I bought on sale a long time ago, and just haven't gotten around to till now. Partly because I've listened to some of the current releases first. |
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jun 21, 2018 19:53:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 1:54:52 GMT
This was an interesting story, overall. The framing device worked well, I thought. I didn't see this as a trope at all, but attributed to the fact that Vicki was from the future and got left in the distant past. I have no doubt she found it difficult to not have the technological amenities to which she had become accustomed. While I agree with you that Vicki is the companion from the classic series most likely to regret leaving the Doctor, I have an issue with the writers going back and making it look like everyone's life sucked afterwards. The books did it with Mel, Peri, Jo, Victoria, etc. Call me old fashioned, but I like to believe that traveling with the Doctor enriches the companions' lives. Keep in mind that Frostfire was written before the new series spoke up about some of those companions and changed their stories to happy ones. Since the series presented it as a "good thing" that Vicki got to be with Troilus I'd have liked for it to stay that way even if I have a hard time believing it myself. Heck, Troilus had to leave his people because they thought Vicki was a witch and she has no friends and only has the Cinder for company. It doesn't sound particularly good. Good observations, but book!Victoria actually found peace at the end of Downtime. The Third Doctor clears her from Interpol's watch list and makes an offer for her to become his travelling companion again. She declines, feeling she has to make amends and looks as though she's going to apply to UNIT (with a letter of recommendation from the Doctor). Same with Peri. After returning to Earth, she decides to go backpacking and forgives the Doctor for not returning to Krontep. It's rough at first, but things turn out alright in the end. It's only really Jo and Mel who fall under that headsman's axe. I do prefer The Sarah Jane Adventures's version of things for Jo, they just feel more... well, Jo-ish. Mel's fate -- as well as a number of other companions -- was part of an ongoing story arc linked to the EDAs. They were being killed off or walled in before their time as part of a "streamlining" effort by a group called the Council of Eight. In one of the probable outcomes for Wolfsbane, Harry and Sarah die with the Fourth Doctor before Terror of the Zygons can happen. Maybe. It's deliberately left ambiguous which particular outcome became "true" by/after Sometime Never. Same thing with Sarah Jane, come to think of it. I remember getting to the end of Dreamland and waiting to hear the TARDIS materialise. That's the only outcome to me that makes sense come SJA. She's wary, but not paranoid and a lot happier than she was then (not having to deal with nerve gas in the London Underground and so on). Out of universe, I think a lot of it had to do with the times in which they were written. The late 1990s are all about that pre-millennium "fresh start" uncertainty (hence 1996's Downtime) and the early 2000s have an ethos of nihilism and bludgeoning fear where bad things can happen for no good reason (hence 2002's Heritage). Not a particularly compelling reason, but it is a reason. Historically, zeitgeist tends to have the largest impact on the kinds of stories being told. Kind of speaks well to the current decade that people are looking back now and going: "Why the hell is this so dark?" |
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