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Post by omega on Jan 1, 2017 3:46:11 GMT
 Released September 2002SynopsisIbiza, 1997, and thousands of young people are acting like mindless zombies. Which is to be expected. Ibiza, the island of dance music, sex, drugs and alcohol, is the ultimate hedonistic paradise. God has sent help from on high to save the sinners of Ibiza. He has sent His angels to save their souls. Which would be simple enough if these souls didn't include an alien time-traveller working in a bar, a woman who disappeared in 1987, a young man carrying a photograph of a girl he's never met and an Irish girl who doesn't even know who she is anymore. Written By: Joseph Lidster Directed By: Jason Haigh-Ellery CASTSylvester McCoy (The Doctor); Sophie Aldred (Ace); Tony Blackburn (The DJ); David John (Liam McShane); Matthew Brenher (Jude); Neil Henry (Gabriel); Carlos Riera (Gustavo); Anne Bird (Caitriona/Shazza); Daniel Wilson (Brian); Jeremy James (Bouncer/Clubber) |
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Post by elkawho on Jan 4, 2017 3:02:43 GMT
I know a lot of people don't like this one, but I think it's ok. {Spoiler}
I think it's strange that BF did something as big as introducing Ace's brother and then never really did anything with him. I know she mentions him a couple of times, but that's it. |
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Post by Ela on Jan 4, 2017 3:20:17 GMT
I enjoyed The Rapture, as well.
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Post by omega on Jan 4, 2017 5:08:49 GMT
I know a lot of people don't like this one, but I think it's ok. {Spoiler}
I think it's strange that BF did something as big as introducing Ace's brother and then never really did anything with him. I know she mentions him a couple of times, but that's it. It could be that the next story with Ace introduces Hex, and they've only just wrapped up with him a couple of years ago. I agree that Liam is a great character and a fresh angle for Ace, who by this point had been in about nine TV stories, countless New Adventures, a number of DWM comic strips and a small number of Big Finish audios. Doing something different with the character was a miracle. |
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 4, 2017 12:45:09 GMT
I always found this an intriguing story and yes Liam should be brought back at some point
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 16:08:03 GMT
One of the reasons I enjoyed this as much as I did was the performance of Matthew Brenher as Jude. He was in quite a few early Big Finish productions and provided, amongst other things, a very persuasive and noble collection of Ice Warriors. I am sorry he doesn't seem to be involved with the company as much anymore.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 5, 2017 8:46:06 GMT
It's a ok release the music gets a bit overbearing & i felt it lacked a genuine threat but i enjoyed the character drama & Sophies as ever is fantastic as Ace in this one.
I was shocked at how much hate Joe Lidster received about this story.
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Tony Jones
Chancellery Guard
Professor Chronotis
Still rockin' along!
Likes: 2,130
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Post by Tony Jones on Jan 5, 2017 10:35:13 GMT
Joe has spoken indirectly about the reaction to this and I do wonder if it coloured his writing at the time. I like a lot of this, though felt when I listened (some years ago) Tony Blackburn was underused slightly. I did notice a theme for Joe to explore family backstories a lot and I wasn't sure what I felt about that, but did quite like it in this one.
As a one off the music element didn't upset me over much.
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Post by omega on Jan 5, 2017 10:55:19 GMT
I love the music. It highlighted the setting (not London or the UK for once) and is still very memorable. Interesting that the story was going to be set in London initially with the Sixth Doctor and Peri. There's a scene after the end credits that may have been from that version of the script.
There's a cool thing in the first half where one scene will segue into the next with a word shared at the end of the one sentence and the start of the next. It's a really interesting touch I've not heard used since.
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Post by omega on Jan 5, 2017 11:04:56 GMT
It's a ok release the music gets a bit overbearing & i felt it lacked a genuine threat but i enjoyed the character drama & Sophies as ever is fantastic as Ace in this one. I was shocked at how much hate Joe Lidster received about this story. The lack of a genuine antagonist does reflect the message Gustavo and Jude believe, that we create enemies where there are none and that it's self-destructive to do this. That's what the whole Ibiza setting is about with the partying, drinking, drugs and sex, like Kat being depressed because she doesn't have a reason to be depressed. Both Ace and Liam try to lose themselves in other things to avoid addressing their problems. By the end Ace, Liam, Kat and Jude at least acknowledge that they have their issues, with Ace resolving the ones that have come to the fore from the events of Dust Breeding and Colditz. Liam has closure and Kat seems more stable. It is a more unique story, with touches of a New Adventures tone, but I too don't understand why it got so much hate. |
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Post by Ela on Jan 15, 2017 16:26:26 GMT
I'm not really sure why it got so much hate, either.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jan 17, 2017 3:55:08 GMT
I thought this was a great story, and that a story like this would have made a wonderful addition to the Seventh Doctor TV stories. I think for me, that would have provided extra diversity to round out the existing stories very nicely so that the overall run would have been more pleasing. I think it's edginess probably would have helped make up for anything that leaned in the direction of buffoonish (Paradise Towers, Happiness Patrol, or to a lesser degree Delta and the Bannermen). Since it actually does belong to the larger body of Seventh Doctor stories, it really does help boost my appreciation of Seven's TV run in general.
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Post by number13 on Oct 7, 2019 0:33:02 GMT
I liked the setting, the music/sound design and the general idea of The Rapture club as a snare, and the atmosphere of Ibiza and 'youth culture' seemed well done - as far as I could tell! (To almost quote Evelyn from a few stories later: 'I did my best, but it's not my scene'  ) Matthew Brenher was excellent as Jude and the nostalgia of Saturday morning radio past was right there with Tony Blackburn!! (Who should have had a larger role imo.) And the artwork is inspired.
But I thought Jude's actions were too extreme to be believable for the given motive of helping his brother; he needed more evil motivation imo. It also seemed improbable that so many of the small number of characters in a single story had different, serious mental health issues - depression, bipolar, PTSD - to the point where none of them could really be explored convincingly; had it been one character with one condition the issue could have been given more attention.
And Ace's long-lost (and as far as I know, instantly forgotten-about) brother Liam seemed like the worst sort of 'afternoon soap' event; included just for the sake of it to parallel Jude/Gabriel. It was the sort of thing the new series might have done, but done properly, staying with Ace and Liam in future stories and seeing how their bond developed. BF could have done this, but personally I'm pleased we got Hex instead. |
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 7, 2019 1:46:00 GMT
It also seemed improbable that so many of the small number of characters in a single story had different, serious mental health issues - depression, bipolar, PTSD - to the point where none of them could really be explored convincingly; had it been one character with one condition the issue could have been given more attention.
And Ace's long-lost (and as far as I know, instantly forgotten-about) brother Liam seemed like the worst sort of 'afternoon soap' event; included just for the sake of it to parallel Jude/Gabriel. It was the sort of thing the new series might have done, but done properly, staying with Ace and Liam in future stories and seeing how their bond developed. BF could have done this, but personally I'm pleased we got Hex instead. I'm quite surprised as we so often seem to be on the same page about stories. Regarding your first concern, I think I took it as making a point about the kind of things that may help make people vulnerable to cults, and I don't know if it would have been realistic to explore that kind of issues in detail beyond that. As for Ace's family, I agree with your point, I'd very much like to have heard more from Liam, but I think if this had actually been an original series TV story, we probably wouldn't have. I don't think it was gratuitous, I think Joe Lidster may simply have a penchant for writing about families, although several Monthly Range stories that followed in that vein were a bit dark for my tastes. I attribute that, though, to the early Monthly Range experimenting, which I think fairly includes experimenting with some darker and more serious and realistic tones without so much of the insulation that the original series might have provided when dealing with more serious matters. Perhaps you'll find it more enjoyable on a later listen sometime. I'm often that way with certain stories. |
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Post by inchmix on Oct 7, 2019 5:01:04 GMT
I haven't listened to this one in years. I liked it. I will have to revisit it, though it will probably sound a bit dated in a big finish production sense. I do like the drum n bass dance remix of the theme tune.
And the cover looks like a a music album.
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Post by number13 on Oct 7, 2019 9:14:49 GMT
It also seemed improbable that so many of the small number of characters in a single story had different, serious mental health issues - depression, bipolar, PTSD - to the point where none of them could really be explored convincingly; had it been one character with one condition the issue could have been given more attention.
And Ace's long-lost (and as far as I know, instantly forgotten-about) brother Liam seemed like the worst sort of 'afternoon soap' event; included just for the sake of it to parallel Jude/Gabriel. It was the sort of thing the new series might have done, but done properly, staying with Ace and Liam in future stories and seeing how their bond developed. BF could have done this, but personally I'm pleased we got Hex instead. I'm quite surprised as we so often seem to be on the same page about stories. Regarding your first concern, I think I took it as making a point about the kind of things that may help make people vulnerable to cults, and I don't know if it would have been realistic to explore that kind of issues in detail beyond that. As for Ace's family, I agree with your point, I'd very much like to have heard more from Liam, but I think if this had actually been an original series TV story, we probably wouldn't have. I don't think it was gratuitous, I think Joe Lidster may simply have a penchant for writing about families, although several Monthly Range stories that followed in that vein were a bit dark for my tastes. I attribute that, though, to the early Monthly Range experimenting, which I think fairly includes experimenting with some darker and more serious and realistic tones without so much of the insulation that the original series might have provided when dealing with more serious matters. Perhaps you'll find it more enjoyable on a later listen sometime. I'm often that way with certain stories. That's a good point - if this had been a 'cult' story, the idea of 'recruiting' people who were vulnerable for one reason or another would have seemed all too believable. But the scenario was 'young people on holiday go to the latest and coolest club', so that's why I thought it very unlikely that almost all the characters involved with The Rapture had (or had formerly had in Liam's case) such problems: Gabriel, Gustavo, Caitriona, Liam. And I guess we can include Ace on that list too, and Jude, given what he was trying to do was completely irrational - not only was his plan evil, it clearly stood no chance of helping his brother.
Presumably most of the crowd at the club were just enjoying themselves 'without a care in the world', but we didn't hear from any of them except Brian and he was killed early on.
(I didn't add this in my original comments, but I'm obviously not among 'the chosen' on this story so I'll go for it  : in ep4 some of the 'crisis acting' seemed just woefully shouty and very unconvincing. Oh dear...) |
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jan 14, 2021 23:46:38 GMT
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Post by mark687 on Jan 24, 2021 15:55:11 GMT
I still like the idea of the original pitch idea involving the Master, however I find it an underrated gem.
Its actually a somewhat daring take on the reasons for and the risks of co-dependence. Laim watches out for Kat while looking for Ace which keeps Kat from falling altogether. he finds Ace, which puts Kat at risk, the Doctor knows Ace is not in the mood for his input with Liam so he steps up with Kat while investigating the Brothers.
Speaking of
The whole scheme is concocted by one to prevent the other harming himself, when that fatefully and tragically fails the other's madness if fully exposed
Now bearing in mind he's not been heard of since I have an alternate approach with Liam and Ace, instead of Siblings their each-others "First Times" and for Laim it was major, so he set out to find her when she went missing, for Ace it just was.
Dose the Sound Design gimmick work yes, its a little intrusive at points, likewise did it need a known DJ, no but its another example of the occasional eccentricities of DW.
The end sentiment I can go with though sometimes you just gotta dance.
4.5/5
Regards
mark687
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Post by Kestrel on Sept 8, 2021 2:40:10 GMT
Well, this one was interesting, huh? Especially the beginning--setting up the 7th Doctor on a radio program. I guess Big a finish knew a good idea when they saw one, because they'd eventually go even further with this idea in the uniformly-excellent LIVE 34, which came out around three years later, IIRC.
Overall I found this story rather middling. Like... I'm just inherently skeptical at the very notion of something like "uplifting trance music." Like, really? Though I did like the remixed main theme in the intro--it reminded me oft hat one time Psych (a fantastic show) did it's Mexican soap opera story and the intro song was in a Spanish. (I think they also did one in Hindi for a Bollywood episode?)
Quote of the story: "I've a bit of a thing when it comes to fascism." Don't we all, Ace. Don't we all.
So... about the formatting. Did y'all like it? The story does this thing where virtually every scene begins and ends mid-sentence, with the last word of one scene being the first word in the next scene. I suppose it's kind of(?):clever and helps,keep,the pacing nice and snappy, but it quickly became pretty annoying to me. I definitely think they overdid it.
Otherwise a fairly solid story. The SF plot is pretty blah, as these things often are, but Ace gets some really good character drama. And, as always, i appreciate it when the Doctor successfully,solves problems by persuading people to be better. That's really Doctor Who at its best, yeah? Though the final episode of the story was rather hard for me to follow, so maybe I don't fully understand how everything resolved.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 20, 2022 10:50:01 GMT
It was 20 years Today
Just thinking this wouldn't get made as a Doctor Who release now but its a near perfect concept for Torchwood
Regards
mark687
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) Matthew Brenher was excellent as Jude and the nostalgia of Saturday morning radio past was right there with Tony Blackburn!! (Who should have had a larger role imo.) And the artwork is inspired.
: in ep4 some of the 'crisis acting' seemed just woefully shouty and very unconvincing. Oh dear...)
