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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 13:31:38 GMT
Absolutely. Torchwood is the very model of how a show can grow organically with buzz, just the right marketing and a little luck. It went from BBC3 to BBC2 and then to primetime BBC1. A true success by any metric. When it launched, John Barrowman's profile - looking for all the world like James Bond with gun cocked and aimed - was on the side of buses and billboards up and down the country. And, of course, people knew who Captain Jack was. There wouldn't be the money to promote Class that heavily now Sarah Jane Adventures was on a much smaller budget than TW with little marketing and that did well. Of course Sarah was reintroduced on the parent show before a spin-off was viable. Class launching completely cold, even with a Capaldi cameo, was not quite the way I imagine all parties would do it retrospectively. If Ram or whoever was in a Doctor Who episode - not easy in a gap year of course - there may have been more Who watchers willing to follow Class even just to check it out. When even DWM declined to put Class on the cover (why couldn't they focus on The Doctor's role and use him for the cover pic?) it was clear even the fans of Doctor Who, much less the general populus weren't too bothered about Class even before broadcast. Most didn't seem to know it was already out the Saturday it launched online. Well DWM's piece on Class was in the 2017 Yearbook (that's not a miss-type BTW), but the fact they made an Editorial choice that it wouldn't sell well in a regular issue was a shocking indictment of the series.
Regards
mark687
The month Class was launched, John Barrowman - who hasn't been in Doctor Who since 2009 - was on the cover of DWM. While I understand concerns about the cast not being a draw to put on the cover....they had new shots of Capaldi to use. Surely that's a bigger draw - a new Doctor Who adventure (kinda) in the middle of the gap year? 10 minutes with the Twelfth Doctor in an otherwise barren 12 months? You can have the show's main star on the cover and give a rub to the new show at the same time. Did Torchwood, 6 years after cancellation, need the promotion more or sell more issues? I doubt it. Tom made the editorial choice and he, to be fair, did defend it saying essentially it was considered but he hadn't seen Class so didn't think it was right to sell it to fans without knowing it was worthwhile. I get that...but if Capaldi wasn't in it I think he'd be right to be reticent. With The Doctor himself in it..it seems to be an open goal that DWM didn't even fancy taking a shot at. Still - that's all completely by-the-by and preaching to the choir. Even if Class did get the cover that wouldn't have given the show the crossover appeal it would need to sustain itself. Doctor Who fans hardcore enough to read DWM were surely at least aware of Class even if they weren't bothered about it but the casual audience who just watch the show and move on...I'm not sure anything was done to get them on board. If the existing fanbase were barely interested it's hard to see how the public at large were ever going to embrace the show.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 13:44:17 GMT
Absolutely. Torchwood is the very model of how a show can grow organically with buzz, just the right marketing and a little luck. It went from BBC3 to BBC2 and then to primetime BBC1. A true success by any metric. When it launched, John Barrowman's profile - looking for all the world like James Bond with gun cocked and aimed - was on the side of buses and billboards up and down the country. And, of course, people knew who Captain Jack was. There wouldn't be the money to promote Class that heavily now Sarah Jane Adventures was on a much smaller budget than TW with little marketing and that did well. Of course Sarah was reintroduced on the parent show before a spin-off was viable. Class launching completely cold, even with a Capaldi cameo, was not quite the way I imagine all parties would do it retrospectively. If Ram or whoever was in a Doctor Who episode - not easy in a gap year of course - there may have been more Who watchers willing to follow Class even just to check it out. When even DWM declined to put Class on the cover (why couldn't they focus on The Doctor's role and use him for the cover pic?) it was clear even the fans of Doctor Who, much less the general populus weren't too bothered about Class even before broadcast. Most didn't seem to know it was already out the Saturday it launched online. In hindsight they should have just done a Paternoster Gang spinoff. It would have cost more, but there would have been many more viewers. I think you answer your own point - money. BBC3 weren't going to have the dough for a bigger budget show. A modern day setting with a cast of unknown young actors mostly set in two easily dressed locations (the school and Charlie's house) is going to cost a lot less than a period drama with more expensive lead actors, full Alien make up for two stars, period costuming for every actor and extra and then sets of Victorian London. It's not an either/or situation. If the Paternoster spinoff does happen - and I don't think it ever will - then it would need to be BBC1 just for budget if nothing else. As I say though, I wouldn't be holding my breath for any Who spinoffs for a while much less one from Steven Moffat's creations when he's surely mentally preparing to leave the Who-world right now. We had this when some said "Bring back Torchwood instead!" when Class was announced - Barrowman and Eve Myles' wages probably cost not far off Class' entire budget alone.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 24, 2017 13:54:40 GMT
In hindsight they should have just done a Paternoster Gang spinoff. It would have cost more, but there would have been many more viewers. I think you answer your own point - money. BBC3 weren't going to have the dough for a bigger budget show. A modern day setting with a cast of unknown young actors mostly set in two easily dressed locations (the school and Charlie's house) is going to cost a lot less than a period drama with more expensive lead actors, full Alien make up for two stars, period costuming for every actor and extra and then sets of Victorian London. It's not an either/or situation. If the Paternoster spinoff does happen - and I don't think it ever will - then it would need to be BBC1 just for budget if nothing else. As I say though, I wouldn't be holding my breath for any Who spinoffs for a while much less one from Steven Moffat's creations when he's surely mentally preparing to leave the Who-world right now. We had this when some said "Bring back Torchwood instead!" when Class was announced - Barrowman and Eve Myles' wages probably cost not far off Class' entire budget alone. Doing a spinoff for BBC3 Online clearly doesn't work though, so any spinoff should have been BBC1 - or at least BBC2. The Paternoster Gang with a BBC1 budget could have been the BBC's new Sherlock: something the channel desperately needs when Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman are becoming more difficult to work schedules around.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 14:33:04 GMT
To be honest, if money is tight at the BBC I'd much prefer it if they just put a bit more money in to Doctor Who and didn't bother funding any spin-offs. Class wasn't Doctor Who and its appeal was always going to be limited. Class getting cancelled - if that article is true - probably isn't a surprise to anyone.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 24, 2017 14:56:49 GMT
To be honest, if money is tight at the BBC I'd much prefer it if they just put a bit more money in to Doctor Who and didn't bother funding any spin-offs. Class wasn't Doctor Who and its appeal was always going to be limited. Class getting cancelled - if that article is true - probably isn't a surprise to anyone. If Sherlock's no more (which it most likely is), then there's money right there for a spinoff.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Feb 24, 2017 17:59:50 GMT
There'd need to be a market for it in order for Big Finish to even consider the possibility. If the BBC do cancel it due to low interest, there isn't going to be the market for the audios. count me as part of the no market.
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 24, 2017 18:54:30 GMT
There'd need to be a market for it in order for Big Finish to even consider the possibility. If the BBC do cancel it due to low interest, there isn't going to be the market for the audios. count me as part of the no market. I'm going to wait till I see the TV show to decide whether or not I would be intersted in audios.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Feb 24, 2017 18:58:39 GMT
count me as part of the no market. I'm going to wait till I see the TV show to decide whether or not I would be intersted in audios. mixing romance and sci fi is something I'll pass on. I can stand it once in awhile on Dr. Who but it ain't for me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 20:08:46 GMT
To be honest, if money is tight at the BBC I'd much prefer it if they just put a bit more money in to Doctor Who and didn't bother funding any spin-offs. Class wasn't Doctor Who and its appeal was always going to be limited. Class getting cancelled - if that article is true - probably isn't a surprise to anyone. If Sherlock's no more (which it most likely is), then there's money right there for a spinoff. Or, even better, more money to put in to Doctor Who!
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Post by muckypup on Feb 24, 2017 20:27:31 GMT
I think you answer your own point - money. BBC3 weren't going to have the dough for a bigger budget show. A modern day setting with a cast of unknown young actors mostly set in two easily dressed locations (the school and Charlie's house) is going to cost a lot less than a period drama with more expensive lead actors, full Alien make up for two stars, period costuming for every actor and extra and then sets of Victorian London. It's not an either/or situation. If the Paternoster spinoff does happen - and I don't think it ever will - then it would need to be BBC1 just for budget if nothing else. As I say though, I wouldn't be holding my breath for any Who spinoffs for a while much less one from Steven Moffat's creations when he's surely mentally preparing to leave the Who-world right now. We had this when some said "Bring back Torchwood instead!" when Class was announced - Barrowman and Eve Myles' wages probably cost not far off Class' entire budget alone. Doing a spinoff for BBC3 Online clearly doesn't work though, so any spinoff should have been BBC1 - or at least BBC2. The Paternoster Gang with a BBC1 budget could have been the BBC's new Sherlock: something the channel desperately needs when Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman are becoming more difficult to work schedules around. I am not sure why you are batting for class so much as it clear from almost everyone's view point it's a turkey! it's good you feel so passionate about it. but that aside......this show was never ever ever going to be made anywhere else than a try out for BBC Three ratings. That's the only reason it got made. the BBC 1 showings were only there as a comparison, the fact they showed it back to back episodes tells you they had little faith it would find an audience so only tied up the "tryout" spot for 4 weeks instead of 8.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 20:27:56 GMT
If Sherlock's no more (which it most likely is), then there's money right there for a spinoff. Or, even better, more money to put in to Doctor Who!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 20:34:23 GMT
What? You mean Steven Moffat didn't end Sherlock so that the BBC could make some more Doctor Who spin-offs? I thought he was a Whovian?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 5:36:37 GMT
I, for one, would enjoy some Class audios as I liked the TV show and Big Finish could definitely expand the characters.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 7:51:07 GMT
I wouldn't like Class audios from Big Finish because then I'd feel like I had to watch the series. I gave up 20 minutes into episode 2. Life is too short to watch absolutely everything and this was at the bottom of the quality list.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 8:50:54 GMT
I'd not like fans - and I'm referring more to FB discussions I've seen than posts here - to think BF are obliged to make audios of everything in the Who realm regardless of their interest in doing so. Even if the rights were available eventually for someone to make Class audios...would BF want to? Is there any desire there whatsoever? Did anyone at BF care for the show? They're creatives too, they shouldn't just be thought of as existing to continue whatever BBC Wales does regardless of whether they care to. They really shouldn't be looked at to pick up a licence just to resolve a cliffhanger we now seem unlikely to get on screen.
Sure, they continue to explore just about every classic Who thread possible but thats going to happen after hundreds of releases and clearly everyone involved at BF loves classic Who. I'm also not sure if Class has indeed proven a bit of a flop on screen and the books haven't sold at all well that there would be any commercial desire to pick it up at all.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 25, 2017 9:17:46 GMT
I'd not like fans - and I'm referring more to FB discussions I've seen than posts here - to think BF are obliged to make audios of everything in the Who realm regardless of their interest in doing so. i don't think anybody thinks that. I just think one Class box set to solve the cliffhanger would be nice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 9:34:35 GMT
I'd not like fans - and I'm referring more to FB discussions I've seen than posts here - to think BF are obliged to make audios of everything in the Who realm regardless of their interest in doing so. i don't think anybody thinks that. I just think one Class box set to solve the cliffhanger would be nice. A whole licence negotiation and box set just to resolve a cliffhanger regardless of feasibility, economics, BF interest in acquiring the show, demand from BF customers, willingness from the BBC/Patrick Ness/the cast to do more? Seems a bit much. And, yes many do think just that. How often have we seen "Well I'm sure Big Finish will do Clara/Ashildir stories.." or "Why don't they do Sarah Jane audios with the kids from the show?" as though BF just wait to react to whatever is happening with TV stories. As I said it's not something I see much of here where, presumably, people "get" BF a lot more but it's there on a lot of the FB discussion, Gallifrey Base chat and other Who talk online.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 25, 2017 10:13:40 GMT
i don't think anybody thinks that. I just think one Class box set to solve the cliffhanger would be nice. A whole licence negotiation and box set just to resolve a cliffhanger regardless of feasibility, economics, BF interest in acquiring the show, demand from BF customers, willingness from the BBC/Patrick Ness/the cast to do more? Seems a bit much. And, yes many do think just that. How often have we seen "Well I'm sure Big Finish will do Clara/Ashildir stories.." or "Why don't they do Sarah Jane audios with the kids from the show?" as though BF just wait to react to whatever is happening with TV stories. As I said it's not something I see much of here where, presumably, people "get" BF a lot more but it's there on a lot of the FB discussion, Gallifrey Base chat and other Who talk online. They wouldn't have to keep the characters specifically within Class though. They could have Miss Quill appear in Doctor Who audios afterwards. Also: I'd be very surprised if Big Finish don't do Sarah Jane Adventures Companion Chronicles. Clara/Ashildr would depend on Maisie Williams' busy schedule - even then, I wouldn't blame Big Finish if they'd rather just use Jenna Coleman as Clara (although I do like Maisie Williams as Ashildr).
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 25, 2017 10:53:36 GMT
Tell you what... If Big Finish should decide they can do something with the series, I'd consider giving it a listen. Apart from that, this would definitely be one where I'd leave it entirely up to them whether they think it would be viable or worthwhile.
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Post by kennysmith on Feb 25, 2017 14:27:39 GMT
What? You mean Steven Moffat didn't end Sherlock so that the BBC could make some more Doctor Who spin-offs? I thought he was a Whovian? Never seen him call himself that. A fan, yes, but never that.
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