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Post by smith11 on Mar 27, 2017 14:44:06 GMT
I really rather enjoyed that, and as someone who went into this more as a tenth doctor adventure than a jago and litefoot one, I thought the pacing was great.
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Post by number13 on Mar 27, 2017 14:44:06 GMT
Re: The 'blank post' My comment was carefully hidden in a Spoiler tag which was then *totally* hidden for some reason (including the tag!) It is there now.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 27, 2017 14:51:27 GMT
When I heard that, I wondered {Spoiler}
if he was the 11th Doctor. But then he was killed by that weird Spider Centipede creature so probably not. Unless it was the Teselecta disguised as the 11th Doctor, with 11 inside. {Spoiler} Nobody died as far as I could tell apart from the pest exterminator, earlier on. At the end, the creature 'flung itself' at the Doctor and Jago, but they were still OK when - da da da dum - the cliff-hanger ending! No doubt Act 2 will reveal all...
Wasn't there that scream from the juggler guy, or am I getting him and the exterminator mixed up?
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Post by theotherjosh on Mar 27, 2017 14:54:06 GMT
I had a lot of fun and the references to Griffin, Challenger and Moriarty in the beginning were great. It reminded me of Kim Newman’s Anno Dracula books, which is always a good thing.
The framing mechanism is brilliant. The pair has such wonderful chemistry. In a way, it’s bonkers they came back so long after their only televised outing, but when I listen to the stories, their return seems like it was inevitable.
I do think they really should have used the Jago and Lightfoot theme instead of the Doctor Who theme. Like Iris Wildthyme, it’s a perfect match for the mood of the stories.
It was more about atmosphere than about plot, but that’s always been the case with the J&L for me, so I’m not complaining. I was fine with the more leisurely pace and now we’re in a position to have faster paced story with part two now that everything is in position.
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Post by number13 on Mar 27, 2017 15:36:22 GMT
{Spoiler} Nobody died as far as I could tell apart from the pest exterminator, earlier on. At the end, the creature 'flung itself' at the Doctor and Jago, but they were still OK when - da da da dum - the cliff-hanger ending! No doubt Act 2 will reveal all...
Wasn't there that scream from the juggler guy, or am I getting him and the exterminator mixed up? {Spoiler} Yes, they were two different people. Only the pest extermminator died, it was his scream that brought the Doctor and (more reluctantly!) Jago running to see what had happened. The 'juggler' is the Doctor (I too assume it's the Eleventh Doctor, a very nice unexpected development.)
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Post by number13 on Mar 27, 2017 15:50:10 GMT
I had a lot of fun and the references to Griffin, Challenger and Moriarty in the beginning were great. It reminded me of Kim Newman’s Anno Dracula books, which is always a good thing. The framing mechanism is brilliant. The pair has such wonderful chemistry. In a way, it’s bonkers they came back so long after their only televised outing, but when I listen to the stories, their return seems like it was inevitable. I do think they really should have used the Jago and Lightfoot theme instead of the Doctor Who theme. Like Iris Wildthyme, it’s a perfect match for the mood of the stories. It was more about atmosphere than about plot, but that’s always been the case with the J&L for me, so I’m not complaining. I was fine with the more leisurely pace and now we’re in a position to have faster paced story with part two now that everything is in position. Oh good, I was right about the Moriarty reference!  It is said that a possible TV spin-off was floated not long after 'Talons', but as a busy script editor, Robert Holmes didn't pursue it.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 27, 2017 16:25:56 GMT
Wasn't there that scream from the juggler guy, or am I getting him and the exterminator mixed up? {Spoiler} Yes, they were two different people. Only the pest extermminator died, it was his scream that brought the Doctor and (more reluctantly!) Jago running to see what had happened. The 'juggler' is the Doctor (I too assume it's the Eleventh Doctor, a very nice unexpected development.) Ah, I think the fez confused me because the Tenth Doctor doesn't usually wear one.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Mar 27, 2017 23:20:57 GMT
I had a lot of fun and the references to Griffin, Challenger and Moriarty in the beginning were great. It reminded me of Kim Newman’s Anno Dracula books, which is always a good thing. Oh how I would love for BF to adapt Newman's novels. Anyway, I am delighted that this turned out to be a multi-Doctor story. Providing of course the 11th Doctor was the juggler in a fez.
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Post by chapwithwings on Mar 28, 2017 8:40:21 GMT
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Post by chapwithwings on Mar 28, 2017 9:14:30 GMT
I had a lot of fun and the references to Griffin, Challenger and Moriarty in the beginning were great. It reminded me of Kim Newman’s Anno Dracula books, which is always a good thing. Oh how I would love for BF to adapt Newman's novels. Anyway, I am delighted that this turned out to be a multi-Doctor story. Providing of course the 11th Doctor was the juggler in a fez. He must have been - Jago says that he sounds like an eleven year old playing on the youth of 11, plus the Fez is somewhat iconic for 11 too.
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Post by theotherjosh on Mar 28, 2017 12:29:53 GMT
Oh how I would love for BF to adapt Newman's novels. As you might suspect of someone who posts on a message board devoted to Doctor Who audio plays, I listen to a lot of audiobooks. Newman's books are ones I'm sure to listen to at least once every year. William Gaminara does a great job reading them. He has trouble with American accents (and I'm not sure this is an aspect that would be improved if Big Finish started producing the stories), but they're really pretty great. For me, they're a lot like Doctor Who, halfway between camp and sincerity. He understands the absurdity of throwing Barnabas Collins, Carl Kolchak and Prince Mamuwalde (Blacula) in the same book, but he plays them absolutely straight with a reverence and a love for the source material.
Are you there Big Finish? It's me, Josh. We want some audio adaptations of Kim Newman's stories. Preferably with a Jago & Lightfoot cameo in the first.
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Post by Zagreus on Mar 28, 2017 18:31:57 GMT
I thought involving the island of Minos was a nice fakeout, thought for sure the Nimon were going to show up there for a second. But hey, they still might!
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Post by sailorhaumea on Mar 30, 2017 0:51:27 GMT
I see thanks for clarification.... but unless it's BF and they make a proper appearance don't count in my personal canon. but a proper meeting with 8....I am up for that. Ah, same as me. As far as personal canon goes they've met only 7 so far. Cheers for the info though. Whether you like it or not, Doctor Who explicitly doesn't have a canon, and everything counts. Trying to ignore anything requires willfully ignoring the intent of the production team.
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Post by elkawho on Mar 30, 2017 1:24:14 GMT
Ah, same as me. As far as personal canon goes they've met only 7 so far. Cheers for the info though. Whether you like it or not, Doctor Who explicitly doesn't have a canon, and everything counts. Trying to ignore anything requires willfully ignoring the intent of the production team. Everything counts? Everything? Does that include comics and novels? From over 50 years? How many people have seen/read/listened to "everything"? And if it doesn't have a canon how can anything, let alone everything count? I know that I have a personal canon. I willfully ignore the things I don't like in Doctor Who often. And then there are some things that I would like to willfully ignore, but they have become so intrenched into the overall DW universe that I can't any longer. For example, after Day Of The Doctor, I had refused to accept the whole premise of the War Doctor. Now, I knew it was futile since it was TV canon, but I had so many problems with the concept. To be honest, I still have those problems, but I haven't been able to ignore it for a while and have accepted it. (To be honest, John Hurt made the pill a lot easier to swallow.) Or, sometimes there are things that come up in a story that directly contradict something previously done and as a fan, you have to make a choice. For example, Human Nature. Is it a Seventh Doctor and Benny story, or is it a Tenth Doctor and Martha story? As a fan, which do you accept into your personal canon? Or do you think that they are just different enough to accept both? Who knows?  There is no right or wrong. It's all personal choice.
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Post by sailorhaumea on Mar 30, 2017 2:58:37 GMT
Whether you like it or not, Doctor Who explicitly doesn't have a canon, and everything counts. Trying to ignore anything requires willfully ignoring the intent of the production team. Everything counts? Everything? Does that include comics and novels? From over 50 years? How many people have seen/read/listened to "everything"? And if it doesn't have a canon how can anything, let alone everything count? I know that I have a personal canon. I willfully ignore the things I don't like in Doctor Who often. And then there are some things that I would like to willfully ignore, but they have become so intrenched into the overall DW universe that I can't any longer. For example, after Day Of The Doctor, I had refused to accept the whole premise of the War Doctor. Now, I knew it was futile since it was TV canon, but I had so many problems with the concept. To be honest, I still have those problems, but I haven't been able to ignore it for a while and have accepted it. (To be honest, John Hurt made the pill a lot easier to swallow.) Or, sometimes there are things that come up in a story that directly contradict something previously done and as a fan, you have to make a choice. For example, Human Nature. Is it a Seventh Doctor and Benny story, or is it a Tenth Doctor and Martha story? As a fan, which do you accept into your personal canon? Or do you think that they are just different enough to accept both? Who knows?  There is no right or wrong. It's all personal choice. Everything counts. This is the official position of the people making the franchise. Both versions of Human Nature happened. They've got a lot of differences. Steven Moffat has said that a Doctor Who canon is "impossible." Russell T. Davies has said that canon is word that has "never" been used in the production office. Basically, the people who make the series have said that there isn't a canon. The Doctor's life is constantly being rewritten, and is a tangled web of contradictions. If you try to cut even a single thread, the whole thing falls apart.
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Post by elkawho on Mar 30, 2017 3:19:25 GMT
Everything counts? Everything? Does that include comics and novels? From over 50 years? How many people have seen/read/listened to "everything"? And if it doesn't have a canon how can anything, let alone everything count? I know that I have a personal canon. I willfully ignore the things I don't like in Doctor Who often. And then there are some things that I would like to willfully ignore, but they have become so intrenched into the overall DW universe that I can't any longer. For example, after Day Of The Doctor, I had refused to accept the whole premise of the War Doctor. Now, I knew it was futile since it was TV canon, but I had so many problems with the concept. To be honest, I still have those problems, but I haven't been able to ignore it for a while and have accepted it. (To be honest, John Hurt made the pill a lot easier to swallow.) Or, sometimes there are things that come up in a story that directly contradict something previously done and as a fan, you have to make a choice. For example, Human Nature. Is it a Seventh Doctor and Benny story, or is it a Tenth Doctor and Martha story? As a fan, which do you accept into your personal canon? Or do you think that they are just different enough to accept both? Who knows?  There is no right or wrong. It's all personal choice. Everything counts. This is the official position of the people making the franchise. Both versions of Human Nature happened. They've got a lot of differences. Steven Moffat has said that a Doctor Who canon is "impossible." Russell T. Davies has said that canon is word that has "never" been used in the production office. Basically, the people who make the series have said that there isn't a canon. The Doctor's life is constantly being rewritten, and is a tangled web of contradictions. If you try to cut even a single thread, the whole thing falls apart. But that makes no sense to me. Either there's canon (personal or otherwise), or there isn't. If the people who make the series say that there isn't a canon, then what do you mean by "everything counts"? It should mean that nothing counts officially, because officially, there is no canon. And if that's the case, than it doesn't matter what a person believes in their own mind. (Honestly, even if the official word from the BBC was different, it still wouldn't matter. No writer, producer, director, actor or studio can change what a person believes in their own mind. It won't change what an individual takes from Doctor Who that makes it special for them. Look at this forum. The only reason it exists the way it does is because everyone has their own opinion.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 3:38:39 GMT
Well, both views certainly have merit. The canvas is there, but the choice of brush strokes are entirely up to the individual. Are the Unbound stories each part of a separate continuity like the universe in Inferno or are they a product of the Doctor's biodata being burst open during the Time War that collapses into a single strand when that conflict ends? Are the TV Comic adventures part of the Land of Fiction, an idle daydream of the Doctor's or a combination of the two? Did the War Doctor (who I really want to call the Renegade) always exist prior to The Name of the Doctor without any intervention or was he created when Eleven jumped into his own timestream and retroactively put into place like Three's regeneration in Interference? Are the wars mentioned in the EDAs and NuWho the same conflict from two differing perspectives or two completely separate entities? Are the Second Doctor's greyer adventures in an era prior to or immediately following The War Games? Is Death Comes to Time a Seventh Doctor adventure or one of the last exploits of an incarnation who resembles Sylvester McCoy? Is the Shalka Doctor an alternate Ninth Doctor that was shunted from existence when the Time War came or a future incarnation who merely visited Warhol while in his ninth body? Are the Target novelisations their own separate canon or part of the Game of Me from Campaign? Unlike most shows there isn't as much power behind authorial intent as something like Babylon 5, for example. Doctor Who is a series that lives, breathes and thrives on Death of the Author. It can all fit together, but how exactly it does so often depends on whoever is tying it all together and that is often the viewer. I point to the Whiskey-Wolf Loom theory that whiskeybrewer and I came up with, stating that the Doctor was loomed and had parents as well; a loving couple who illegally fed their genetic data into the machine to secretly make a child. It's often difficult, but there are ways to do it from a Watsonian (i.e. in-universe) perspective.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 30, 2017 7:51:45 GMT
I just think the Doctor's parents had sex...
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brians
Castellan

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Post by brians on Mar 30, 2017 8:06:33 GMT
I just think the Doctor's parents had sex... Eugh! Gross! No wonder he ran away. Why can't they use machines like normal Gallifreyans. Perverts.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 30, 2017 8:23:19 GMT
I just think the Doctor's parents had sex... Eugh! Gross! No wonder he ran away. Why can't they use machines like normal Gallifreyans. Perverts. And without condoms too!
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