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Post by mark687 on Nov 25, 2017 20:46:06 GMT
I don't see the analogy at all. The Ice Warriors are a kind of techno-Viking civilisation, with the advanced culture and the violence. Their contacts with humans - first as brutal invaders then later as part of wider Galactic society - seem to mirror the way that the Vikings first came to Britain as raiders and invaders but later settled and finally became part of one combined society. (I'm going on the original Brian Hayles stories here.) They (Ice Warriors or Vikings) were never in any need of 'justice' - quite the opposite in fact! Those are literally the reasons why the analogy was made even worse because they reduced the Ice Warriors to victims, described as “quiet people” living in ghettos and mistreated by humans. Adding the SJW comment to it and saying that reparations were owed to the Ice Warriors for the humans stealing their planet, I think it’s clear that it was all an allegory for the slave trade and what some people think about it now. I wouldn’t have had an issue with doing this as a story, but it was so tacked on to the end that it felt forced rather than a natural part of the story. Yes the Debate itself is valid and points in it well taken its just tacking that term on somewhat glibly at the end that didn't sit well with me.
Regards
mark687
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Post by number13 on Nov 25, 2017 21:13:08 GMT
Those are literally the reasons why the analogy was made even worse because they reduced the Ice Warriors to victims, described as “quiet people” living in ghettos and mistreated by humans. Adding the SJW comment to it and saying that reparations were owed to the Ice Warriors for the humans stealing their planet, I think it’s clear that it was all an allegory for the slave trade and what some people think about it now. I wouldn’t have had an issue with doing this as a story, but it was so tacked on to the end that it felt forced rather than a natural part of the story. Yes the Debate itself is valid and points in it well taken its just tacking that term on somewhat glibly at the end that didn't sit well with me.
Regards
mark687
A different alien people should have been in the story if that was the intention - not the Ice Warriors. I wouldn't be convinced by portaying them as 'victims'. And "quiet people" frankly sounds a bizarre description for a species of natural warriors, lords and conquerers. Even later, as diplomats, you wouldn't mess with Izlyr and Ssorg, would you?  |
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Nov 27, 2017 13:30:05 GMT
Review recorded but no room on the tdp feed til 1st December
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 28, 2017 5:21:55 GMT
A different alien people should have been in the story if that was the intention - not the Ice Warriors. I wouldn't be convinced by portaying them as 'victims'. And "quiet people" frankly sounds a bizarre description for a species of natural warriors, lords and conquerers. Even later, as diplomats, you wouldn't mess with Izlyr and Ssorg, would you? Maybe the Ice Warriors in this story were sort of a pastiche of different races? That might be how the themeddlingmonk saw the analogy as referring to persons of African descent, and you thought of Vikings, while I was reminded most of indigenous Americans. I think the analogy worked out okay for me - I wouldn't have thought I'd be convinced by portraying Daleks as any degree of "human" either but we actually have some great stories going way back about what it means for Daleks to become more "human". If the story did succeed in portraying some of the Ice Warrior race as victims, though, at least I didn't get the sense of it making humans out to be inherently "bad" to the degree that I made a mental note to self about it - more a sense that extenuating circumstances can have the potential sometimes to influence them to act contrary to their better natures, I guess? (Or maybe that impression comes natural to me because in most sci-fi I've been exposed to, I think it's probably emphasized what a hostile environment Mars is enough that humans just being there in the first place sort of seems like extenuating circumstances to me all on its own?) |
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Nov 28, 2017 6:53:54 GMT
Bad human is a definite theme of the r(t)d era.
I had no issues with it. It felt real to me
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Post by DavidHogan on Nov 28, 2017 19:21:20 GMT
Really good set overall, three good stories with the first two raised higher due to how authentic they felt to the era they were recreating.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 28, 2017 19:23:19 GMT
I'm surprised my LE set hasn't arrived yet. Christmas post delaying things?
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Post by relativetime on Nov 28, 2017 19:56:28 GMT
Good set overall. The first two stories were the best - my favorite being Infamy of the Zaross - and it's nice to finally have a Tenth Doctor vs. the Ice Warriors story. I'm glad to see a lot of what makes me dislike Series 2's Tenth Doctor and Rose on television isn't present here and by the end of the set, I could barely tell Billie Piper had been away from this role for a few years.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that this set is better than Volume 01 - c'mon, people, the first set had Donna Noble - but I think it's fair to say that they're pretty equal in terms of quality, while also offering different things.
Fingers crossed for Volume 03 with Martha next year.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 29, 2017 10:23:32 GMT
Listening Now (Omnibus version stops halfway through Sword review  )
Regards
mark687
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Nov 29, 2017 11:04:24 GMT
Yeah. Sorry.
No room on my feed.
I'll upload it on Friday
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Post by IndieMacUser on Nov 29, 2017 13:17:07 GMT
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 29, 2017 13:20:00 GMT
Limited Edition box set still hasn't arrived. Bloody Christmas post...
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Post by Whovitt on Nov 29, 2017 13:30:21 GMT
I find it mildly amusing that UK customers are complaining when their orders haven't arrived in under a week, when here in Australia we're prepared to wait up to four  |
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Post by acousticwolf on Nov 29, 2017 13:38:58 GMT
I find it mildly amusing that UK customers are complaining when their orders haven't arrived in under a week, when here in Australia we're prepared to wait up to four  We're British and obviously the whole delivery have fallen into a passing Black Hole ... that is why we are concerned  Cheers Tony |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 29, 2017 13:49:26 GMT
I find it mildly amusing that UK customers are complaining when their orders haven't arrived in under a week, when here in Australia we're prepared to wait up to four We're British and obviously the whole delivery have fallen into a passing Black Hole ... that is why we are concerned Cheers Tony Yeah, we complain about anything. Even royal weddings! |
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Post by shallacatop on Nov 29, 2017 19:03:34 GMT
So that’s the set finished with. I thought it was good, not a patch on the first volume, but still very welcome. Loved how fun and authentic the first two stories were and Cold Vengeance was decent enough. It’s a shame Billie didn’t get into the swing of things until the end, as I think if she’d have been as good in Swords of the Chevalier it would’ve been a classic for me, but just misses out.
I can’t wait for the next set of Tenth Doctor Adventures, whenever they surface and whoever he’s with.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 30, 2017 4:43:45 GMT
Good set overall. The first two stories were the best - my favorite being Infamy of the Zaross - and it's nice to finally have a Tenth Doctor vs. the Ice Warriors story. I'm glad to see a lot of what makes me dislike Series 2's Tenth Doctor and Rose on television isn't present here and by the end of the set, I could barely tell Billie Piper had been away from this role for a few years. I wouldn't go so far as to say that this set is better than Volume 01 - c'mon, people, the first set had Donna Noble - but I think it's fair to say that they're pretty equal in terms of quality, while also offering different things. Fingers crossed for Volume 03 with Martha next year. I though the consistency of the story quality was notably improved with Vol 2. Of course I might be in the minority for not being terribly fond of Death and the Queen, but on account of that, and how excellent I thought Time Reaver was making it even tougher on the any story after, the first set seemed to end on a particularly flat note for me. (I might just be peevish about it, too - if I all I have to do is renumber the files so the set closes on a soaring high with Time Reaver, maybe things can't be as bad as they try to seem) :-) Agreed concerning the quality of writing for Rose in the stories (I'd been framing that as a matter of consistency too), not a single thing happened that disgruntled me about her being present (in contrast to the TV series) so was kind of like getting to know Rose in a whole new light and I did find that rather exciting - and impressive that Big Finish could do so much to improve my appreciation of a character with a single box set. Keeping my fingers crossed for stories with Martha too. |
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 30, 2017 12:51:49 GMT
It has Arrived!
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 30, 2017 15:30:01 GMT
As has mine. Possibly the one Big Finish release I've been looking forward to more than any other this year. |
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Post by The Matt on Nov 30, 2017 18:51:16 GMT
Heard the first 2 stories and unfortunately i found them massively average and lacking any real drama and tension. Certainly not up to vol.1 and Billie Piper isn't a patch on Catherine Tate.
I really rate the Ice Warriors though so hopefully the set will go out on a high
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