|
Post by mark687 on Apr 25, 2017 9:12:12 GMT
SPOILERS IN MY QUESTIONS... * * * * * * * * * I was really enjoying this story until the penultimate scene, and then it seemed like a scene was missing. 1. How come the villainess changed her mind about her army SO QUICKLY? What was the reason? 2. We heard Romana and Franklin the monkey shot. How did they survive and sneak out into an escape pod without being noticed? 3. Real actual missiles were fired at the craft containing the Doctor and Dethras. How did they avoid these missiles? Is all of this supposed to be covered by the telepathic hallucination explanation? It's really not clear and feels like something has been missed out. Thanks, Andrew
All of it occurred while the villainess was experiencing a telepathic illusion of her winning created by the Doctor.
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by andrewwooding on Apr 25, 2017 9:45:25 GMT
So she hallucinated firing the missiles? And she hallucinated shooting Romana and the monkey? And the telepathy made her change her mind in the first place?
One short sentence explaining this and I would have been happy. Instead, the words 'telepathic hallucination' are mentioned and you just have to assume it covers all of the above.
Andrew
PS. Don't mean to come across as down on this. Otherwise, I thought this was a great CD. Lots of fun.
|
|
|
Post by mrperson on Apr 25, 2017 16:48:36 GMT
So she hallucinated firing the missiles? And she hallucinated shooting Romana and the monkey? And the telepathy made her change her mind in the first place? One short sentence explaining this and I would have been happy. Instead, the words 'telepathic hallucination' are mentioned and you just have to assume it covers all of the above. Andrew PS. Don't mean to come across as down on this. Otherwise, I thought this was a great CD. Lots of fun. I may have to listen again (in fact, will at some point), but I had the impression that the Doctor went on for a while about others hyper-evolving low level telepathic abilities because he has them, and then he harnessed them to ratchet up the force so he could do that. I suppose there wasn't also an explanation after the fact, though.
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 25, 2017 18:02:09 GMT
So she hallucinated firing the missiles? And she hallucinated shooting Romana and the monkey? And the telepathy made her change her mind in the first place? One short sentence explaining this and I would have been happy. Instead, the words 'telepathic hallucination' are mentioned and you just have to assume it covers all of the above. Andrew PS. Don't mean to come across as down on this. Otherwise, I thought this was a great CD. Lots of fun. I may have to listen again (in fact, will at some point), but I had the impression that the Doctor went on for a while about others hyper-evolving low level telepathic abilities because he has them, and then he harnessed them to ratchet up the force so he could do that. I suppose there wasn't also an explanation after the fact, though. Really? I thought there was a bit at the end where he explained to Romana what he had done?
|
|
|
Post by mrperson on Apr 25, 2017 19:08:37 GMT
Really? I thought there was a bit at the end where he explained to Romana what he had done? I may have missed it.
|
|
|
Post by lemmingsunday1 on Apr 25, 2017 23:38:39 GMT
Telepathy doesn't really explain away what happened to the missles, bullets, or how Frankie and Romana 2 ended up in an escape pod.
There are moments were it seems no director is guiding Lalla Ward. The Forever War had her interruptiing and snapping at the Sontaran commander and the Doctor in a way that was so out of place and ill tempered that she comes across as a bully.
She acts in a manner that suggests she respects the Doctor's accomplishments but finds him insufferable. She can be kind and compassionate. She is intelligent, capable and confident. Yet, if the goal is to create an erratic female version of the Doctor she seems to be suffering from borderline syndrome.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,069
|
Post by dorney on Apr 26, 2017 8:50:56 GMT
Telepathy doesn't really explain away what happened to the missles, bullets, or how Frankie and Romana 2 ended up in an escape pod. There are moments were it seems no director is guiding Lalla Ward. The Forever War had her interruptiing and snapping at the Sontaran commander and the Doctor in a way that was so out of place and ill tempered that she comes across as a bully. She acts in a manner that suggests she respects the Doctor's accomplishments but finds him insufferable. She can be kind and compassionate. She is intelligent, capable and confident. Yet, if the goal is to create an erratic female version of the Doctor she seems to be suffering from borderline syndrome. It's all a telepathic illusion. So the missiles don't get fired, and whilst Flague is hallucinating, Romana and Franklin head off in a pod. I do think it's covered in the production, but ymmv. It might be too oblique for some, but go into it more and others might have found it belabouring the obvious. So it's a fine line.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,069
|
Post by dorney on Apr 26, 2017 8:51:33 GMT
Really? I thought there was a bit at the end where he explained to Romana what he had done? I may have missed it. Yep, a radio conversation when she's in the pod.
|
|
|
Post by andrewwooding on Apr 27, 2017 4:03:42 GMT
Thanks for taking the time to explain, John. Like a lot of the TV episodes, I am sure this will work better for me on second listening. And I still enjoyed it the first time round. A lot of fun.
The Trouble With Drax is still my all-time favourite 4DA and I can't see it being beaten.
Andrew
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on May 1, 2017 7:08:43 GMT
Blimey Tom Bakers not holding back his words in this story & gives a darker angry performance as the Doctor appalled at how events have unfolded.
Adrian Poynton script is a enriched engaging adventure & i look forward in seeing what more this new writer has in store for the Doctor in future audio dramas.
8/10
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 1:15:33 GMT
I found this to be another breezy, enjoyable Fourth Doctor adventure, but just how angry Lalla/Romana came across at the start certainly stood out, and was a bit jarring. I was waiting for there to be an actual in story reason for the level of animosity, but beyond 'flashback of being married to Tom' there didn't seem to be one.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on May 3, 2017 14:50:07 GMT
|
|
|
Post by nottenst on May 5, 2017 13:39:49 GMT
John Banks' Franklin was the standout. Very enjoyable and it used the telepathic trick from Babylon 5's " A Race Through Dark Places" (and probably some earlier works).
|
|
|
Post by nottenst on May 5, 2017 17:33:35 GMT
I praised John Banks' performance on twitter. He thanked me "v kind of you to say. Glad you liked 'Franklin'; from now on, I'll try to get a flavour of him into everything I do with BF!" and then when I said some more he said "Thanks again; it was great fun to record - and it's always good to make Lalla laugh! 😄"
|
|
mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,081
|
Post by mbt66 on May 17, 2017 9:35:14 GMT
I sometimes wonder if Lalla Ward is paying Tom Baker back for his allegedly fiery behaviour during their TV career, by making Romana so hostile towards him here, now on audio - she brandishes the words 'You're in a good mood,' so accusingly, you'd think The Doctor had set fire to her wardrobe! Yeah, Lalla Ward's performances in the last series and so far in this series has been bothering me a little bit. It's not bad, necessarily, but the character's a bit more irritated and bitingly sarcastic than I remember Romana being in Season 17 and 18. Maybe it's just me and I need to revisit the seasons? But, at least to me, there's a pretty big disconnect between these stories and the closeness between the Doctor and Romana we saw in City of Death. I too have found Romana to be far too angry with everyone as of late. Also I always think of Romana and the Doctor being equally as intelligent, bouncing ideas off each other, but she just seems to be portrayed as a helpless companion. Perhaps that is why she is so angry!
|
|
mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,081
|
Post by mbt66 on May 17, 2017 9:43:04 GMT
DETHRAS - When I read that title I thought it looked familiar. I did wonder, my brain ignoring the "h" in the middle of the word, is that an anagram of Tardis?
Obviously not, but I still thought that the two would be connected somehow. And as I listened I did think of these being anagrams of one another...
I Dethras
He Tardis
Could Franklin be a Tardis, somehow? And when the Tardis was stolen by the creatures* I was even more convinced that this story was going to be about a mixed up Tardis.
The cliffhanger at the end of the first episode also did nothing to change my mind, just who "he" was. But I was 100% wrong and I am happy with that because it was a very good adventure. Plus I can look forward to listening again without such silly notions spinning around my head!
*Did we ever get an explanation as to why they ripped open the submarine to get at the Tardis?
|
|
|
Post by jjjjj on May 17, 2017 10:44:58 GMT
Yeah, Lalla Ward's performances in the last series and so far in this series has been bothering me a little bit. It's not bad, necessarily, but the character's a bit more irritated and bitingly sarcastic than I remember Romana being in Season 17 and 18. Maybe it's just me and I need to revisit the seasons? But, at least to me, there's a pretty big disconnect between these stories and the closeness between the Doctor and Romana we saw in City of Death. I too have found Romana to be far too angry with everyone as of late. Also I always think of Romana and the Doctor being equally as intelligent, bouncing ideas off each other, but she just seems to be portrayed as a helpless companion. Perhaps that is why she is so angry! This is my issue with the stories, she's been grumpy which isn't how she was on TV, but she's also been a typical companion who needs saving and asks questions. She should be part of the solution, an equal, but particularly in this series she's been saved and just there to ask questions. Not the Romana that I want to hear basically. Romana was always my favorite because she was his equal, these don't show that.
|
|
|
Post by lemmingsunday1 on May 21, 2017 1:52:19 GMT
Does anyone find it rather strange that a space faring conquering empire in order to find test subjects, snatches up a submarine (so no one will notice it is missing) and drags it to some other part of the universe? Then a guilty scientist wants to give a quick death to the sailors by dropping off the entire crew AND submarine into a graveyard of space derelicts.
The crew of the submarine (what would that be eight) was to be an "army?" The episode seems to indicate that the mutated crew is composed of thousands of crew members.
The evil space empress is brain washed, and mental controlled to think all types of things that didn't happen, but does here ship scanners, unused missiles, missing escape pod, not create any possible problems?
|
|
|
Post by jjjjj on May 21, 2017 16:01:18 GMT
Does anyone find it rather strange that a space faring conquering empire in order to find test subjects, snatches up a submarine (so no one will notice it is missing) and drags it to some other part of the universe? Then a guilty scientist wants to give a quick death to the sailors by dropping off the entire crew AND submarine into a graveyard of space derelicts. The crew of the submarine (what would that be eight) was to be an "army?" The episode seems to indicate that the mutated crew is composed of thousands of crew members. The evil space empress is brain washed, and mental controlled to think all types of things that didn't happen, but does here ship scanners, unused missiles, missing escape pod, not create any possible problems? Shhh! Don't use logic! 😜
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Jan 17, 2018 11:57:13 GMT
DethrasAnother excellent adventure in this very strong season of 4DAs. I'm hearing them out of order but with most of the season now listened to, this was the first time I felt that the theme music was the right one for the Doctor - in other words, that I was listening to a genuinely Season 18 Tom Baker story. The first half is mysterious and quite creepy, a WWII submarine full of strange echoing noises (great sound design as usual) - but not full of crew. Only three men remain and two are hearing things they should not - hearing thoughts. And then there's Franklin... 'OO-OO-OO...' - yet another wonderful performance from John Banks, playing one of our closest relatives with a surprising amount to say for himself! Then comes the twist which makes this a genuine Season 18 science-fiction adventure - the science of hyper-evolution, applied without morality to unwilling subjects. And as he realises what has been done in the name of science and war, the more sombre, driven Doctor of that final Season 18 steps up to condemn it - and stop it! Tom Baker is outstanding in 'Dethras'; even by his high standards it's an especially riveting performance as the Doctor turns the enemy's weapons against them with some help from his own biology - I liked that this story remembers and uses the fact that he is a Time Lord to good effect. And this neatly explains the 'no, that's impossible! ' moment in part 2 when it seems that it's all over for Romana - obviously not - and her escape, before the Doctor makes it the happiest ending he can manage, finding a new home for the hyper-evolved and their creator Dethras - a better person than his work suggested. I enjoyed reading through our discussion thread and it gave me a few thoughts: - Romana is in such a bad mood at the start because she (rightly) thinks the Doctor is being reckless by not using the Randomiser. At this time, they are on the run from the vengeful Black Guardian and every time the Doctor indulges himself and chooses their destination, they risk another run-in with their powerful enemy who can certainly read their minds. - Dethras took the sub and its crew as a self-contained 'resource' of subjects, already isolated from their environment. He presumably convinced himself that humans were close enough - a very close match - but not really like him and his people, so experimenting on live humans would be acceptable... just as chimpanzees are a very close match for us... - The hyper-evolved beings homed in on the TARDIS because it is a vast source of energy which their very active biology made them crave. (They couldn't get in to harvest the energy of course but they still took the TARDIS.) - I'm sure people are right who said Empress Xankari would eventually see through the telepathic illlusion the Doctor used to fool her and her crew. The physical evidence (missing shuttle, missing bodies) and computer records would give it away - and she was no doubt absolutely furious to have been tricked! But by then it would be far too late for her to do anything about it; the Doctor found a remote, peaceful home for her scientist and his 'experiments', putting them far beyond her reach. I only had one real criticism - the Doctor refers to Franklin at least three times as a monkey. Really Doctor, you've travelled with enough of us to recognise our closest relative! Franklin is no monkey, he's far more intelligent (even before Dethras altered his evolution.) Just like me and all your human friends, he's an ape and no doubt rather proud of it!
|
|