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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 4:25:32 GMT
There is a certain irony in some - not on this thread I should say - looking down on Ten and Rose fans clamouring for them to return when there were more than a few of the same people in fandom pining for Tom Baker to come back and star front and centre in The Dark Dimension in the 90s ahead of the then-incumbent Sylvester McCoy. I guess wanting Tennant back makes you a fangirl, but wanting Tom back makes you a real fan in some minds.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 4:34:57 GMT
As for the term Whovian, I don't use it, but I don't shy away from it either. I try not to get offended easily so I care more about the context than the word. Just like I've been called a Trekkie and a Trekker in my day and didn't really care. Oh, right! Yes, the point of the thread. Damn, um... I treat it much like slang, I've got no problem with it and it saves on syllables where needs be. I've never understood why fandom don't call themselves Renegades (much to the foot-tapping ire of Gallifrey). Too vague maybe, although I do like shutupbanks 's Wholigan.
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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 14, 2017 9:02:28 GMT
As for the term Whovian, I don't use it, but I don't shy away from it either. I try not to get offended easily so I care more about the context than the word. Just like I've been called a Trekkie and a Trekker in my day and didn't really care. Oh, right! Yes, the point of the thread. Damn, um... I treat it much like slang, I've got no problem with it and it saves on syllables where needs be. I've never understood why fandom don't call themselves Renegades (much to the foot-tapping ire of Gallifrey). Too vague maybe, although I do like shutupbanks 's Wholigan. I like "non-conformists". We should ... Oh wait, hasn't that already been done? Cheers Tony
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 10:46:25 GMT
Back in the 1980s, when we were all a lot younger, there were fanzines dedicated to slating every level of every aspect of Doctor Who, from cast to crew and beyond. I picked up a couple of these, was startled by the unabated, fuelled group-hate that filled the pages, and slung 'em in the bin. These were Whovians to me, who use the term to give themselves a platform for their, erm, eccentric beliefs. Happily, those fanzines don't seem to exist anymore, but now we have the internet! Not everyone who labels themselves as Whovian is like that (and not everyone who doesn't label themselves a Whovian isn't like that!), of course, but its a blanket reference used by the loud voices who respond to Facebook statuses and the like with relentlessly negative responses to anything concerned with the new series of Doctor Who. Sums up how I feel about a LOT of Doctor Who fans exactly. I sometimes feel like there's fans who can't talk about how much they enjoyed a particular era of Doctor Who without talking about how much they hated another era of Doctor Who. I've found something I love about every single Doctor's tenure. Many things, actually. When I hear all this hate toward Moffat or JNT or whoever it may be, it usually seems like more of a personal attack not just at the people making the episodes, but also at the people who enjoy those episodes too. That's never okay. I don't personally enjoy as much of RTD's era of the show as other people do, but I would hope that I've never said anything meant to attack someone else for enjoying his era or that implies they have horrible tastes in television for liking RTD. 'I complain because I care', is a quote that blows my mind. This infers that people who enjoy the show don't care. 'You must be easily pleased', is another, if you profess to enjoying a certain episode. But of course, all this is playground talk. As is feeling the need to label yourself (and therefore define yourself) as a Whovian or whatever. It's a nonsense that gives rise to a kind of 'You don't remember City of Death/New Earth (add as applicable) so you're not a real fan' kind of mentality. As if someone not considered a real fan is not entitled to pass an opinion on Doctor Who. Life's too short for all that.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 14, 2017 10:48:49 GMT
Ohh good lord, I hate the term. It only exists because certain people (American fans in thr 80s IIRC) needed a label.
It makes us sounds like vacuum cleaners.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 13:10:55 GMT
Ohh good lord, I hate the term. It only exists because certain people (American fans in thr 80s IIRC) needed a label. It makes us sounds like vacuum cleaners. Ah, the Whoovers, if you will.
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Post by elkawho on Apr 14, 2017 13:52:53 GMT
'I complain because I care', is a quote that blows my mind. This infers that people who enjoy the show don't care. Then Stubagful (He Who Moans) is not the reviewer for you, huh?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 14:17:42 GMT
'I complain because I care', is a quote that blows my mind. This infers that people who enjoy the show don't care. Then Stubagful (He Who Moans) is not the reviewer for you, huh? I'll be honest, I had to Google him. Everyone has to have a grumble from time to time, but the onslaught of outrage that accompany any Facebook (for example) announcement is ... well, it becomes just, as Tom Baker might say, audible print. Just noise. When you complain about everything, your complaints cease to have any validity. And then to justify it by saying, 'I'm a real fan, I'm a Whovian, that's why I complain - because I care,' just doesn't make sense. If 'caring' becomes such a chore, give it up!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 6:56:00 GMT
I guess the great difference here is whether you're expecting to go into the programme wanting it to be good or not. If the latter is the case, then there's something wrong there...
Edit: Also, ABC here in Australia broadcast a show following "The Pilot" called Whovians:
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Post by constonks on Apr 19, 2017 14:14:22 GMT
It's a synonym for "fan," like "Trekkie/trekker" or "X-phile" but specific to the product that a person is a fan of. Like "nerd" it can be used in a derogatory sense, so I always try to pay attention to context. I have no issue with it, but prefer "Whooligan" because I love puns. I seem to recall that fans of The Who already use that one. As for Whovian, I'm fine with it. Wouldn't say it myself but when asked if I am one, I don't deny it or rant about it.
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Post by Ela on Apr 25, 2017 6:11:04 GMT
It's a synonym for "fan," like "Trekkie/trekker" or "X-phile" but specific to the product that a person is a fan of. Like "nerd" it can be used in a derogatory sense, so I always try to pay attention to context. I have no issue with it, but prefer "Whooligan" because I love puns. Whooligan, that's a good one. I don't care much one way or the other about the term "Whovians" and I don't care if I am or am not called one. I also think that all the blame and stereotyping that people ascribe to the term is outright ridiculous and not true at all. Too many people call themselves Whovians for any of those generalizations to be anywhere close to true.
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Post by theotherjosh on Apr 25, 2017 15:33:35 GMT
'I complain because I care', is a quote that blows my mind. This infers that people who enjoy the show don't care. I've said that, or words so similar as to mean the same thing, but that's not what I mean with the phrase. A better way to say it might be: "I criticize because that's the manner in which I express my appreciation of the show." It drives my wife crazy that I do this (and it drives her doubly mad that our daughter inherited this trait), but I've always been interested in the components of story, of pulling the stories apart to see what makes them work, on speculating why decisions were made. I don't delude myself that I could do it better than the writers, and I don't think my rambling commentary will ever make it back to the ears of anyone in a position to influence the direction of Doctor Who, but it's my way of participating in the community of fandom.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 16:02:47 GMT
'I complain because I care' seemed to work for Chris Chibnall on telly slagging Doctor Who in the 80s - look where he is now.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 25, 2017 16:25:41 GMT
'I complain because I care' seemed to work for Chris Chibnall on telly slagging Doctor Who in the 80s - look where he is now. You very nearly took the words out of my mouth.
If he responds to critics in the future I think they'll be as memorable
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 16:27:04 GMT
To put my own witnessing of the use of 'I complain because I care' into perspective, this quote - perfectly admirable in many ways, I'm sure - is used by those who relentlessly (and I do mean relentlesstly) slate each and everything to do with each and every episode. The quote is used to justify, if that is the right word, a myriad of variations of 'Moffat must go', 'what Moffat singularly fails to understand is...', 'Doctor Who has been unwatchable since {insert year}', etc etc. 'I complain because I care' is used, in the few examples I have seen, when someone is challenged in their negativity, someone who accuses you of being 'easily pleased' if you've enjoyed anything written/produced by Moffat/RTD/JNT (the list goes on). I'm sure 'I complain because I care' has been used in many a reasonable debate, but on the instances I have seen it's usage, it just seems to be a bit of a put-down that assumes you are in some way lesser for NOT complaining about every tiny thing to the nth degree.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 16:35:57 GMT
To put my own witnessing of the use of 'I complain because I care' into perspective, this quote - perfectly admirable in many ways, I'm sure - is used by those who relentlessly (and I do mean relentlesstly) slate each and everything to do with each and every episode. The quote is used to justify, if that is the right word, a myriad of variations of 'Moffat must go', 'what Moffat singularly fails to understand is...', 'Doctor Who has been unwatchable since {insert year}', etc etc. 'I complain because I care' is used, in the few examples I have seen, when someone is challenged in their negativity, someone who accuses you of being 'easily pleased' if you've enjoyed anything written/produced by Moffat/RTD/JNT (the list goes on). I'm sure 'I complain because I care' has been used in many a reasonable debate, but on the instances I have seen it's usage, it just seems to be a bit of a put-down that assumes you are in some way lesser for NOT complaining about every tiny thing to the nth degree. Don't worry I think we knew where you're coming from. One of the advantages of havig forums small enough to know posters is you can tell from knowing them who has constructive criticisms and who is at the madam, with deeper agendas.
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Post by theotherjosh on Apr 25, 2017 18:34:49 GMT
To put my own witnessing of the use of 'I complain because I care' into perspective, this quote - perfectly admirable in many ways, I'm sure - is used by those who relentlessly (and I do mean relentlesstly) slate each and everything to do with each and every episode. The quote is used to justify, if that is the right word, a myriad of variations of 'Moffat must go', 'what Moffat singularly fails to understand is...', 'Doctor Who has been unwatchable since {insert year}', etc etc. 'I complain because I care' is used, in the few examples I have seen, when someone is challenged in their negativity, someone who accuses you of being 'easily pleased' if you've enjoyed anything written/produced by Moffat/RTD/JNT (the list goes on). I'm sure 'I complain because I care' has been used in many a reasonable debate, but on the instances I have seen it's usage, it just seems to be a bit of a put-down that assumes you are in some way lesser for NOT complaining about every tiny thing to the nth degree. I tend not to be a fan of Moffat as a showrunner, but when he does something praiseworthy, I try to acknowledge it. Not that I think it will ever get back to him or he would care if it did, but because I think that evaluating things honestly in the context of your own preferences is an important part of appreciating them. Yeah, and in your defense, the phrase is almost certainly more commonly used in the way that you described. The only reason I brought up the topic is because I care, Paz
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Post by mark687 on Apr 26, 2017 11:47:29 GMT
In a similar vein I'm beginning to loath that people keep it calling the show stale, why dose it need livening up and aside from a gender change how would you do it?
Regards
mark687
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