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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 3:12:42 GMT
Hey everyone,
I've never really understood the negative fan reactions to The Three Doctors and The Five Doctors. (So much so Nick Briggs needed to be talked into doing The Light At The End) The Three Doctors is all about the impossible happening - creatures of the unknown, THREE DOCTORS, a trip to a completly alien universe (isn't it exciting?!!!) - and it's one of my favourite stories and The Five Doctors, in my opinion, is everything you want from an anniversary special.
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Post by relativetime on Apr 24, 2017 3:25:29 GMT
I'm not sure there really is a collectively negative fan reaction to those two stories. As far as I can tell, it looks like it's mostly a writer thing - I think I read somewhere that Russell T. Davies didn't like multi-Doctor stories and I don't think Moffat likes writing them either. And it's pretty understandable why - it must be a nightmare to write a story that's intricate enough to get multiple incarnations of the Doctor involved, but also new and original, while also meeting a time limit and also attempting to distinguish each incarnation of the Doctor from one another without resorting too much to just having them bicker endlessly. I don't imagine it's something many writers want to do very often.
But, regardless, I don't think there's much negative reception to any multi-Doctor story amongst fans. People really love them from what I can tell.
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Post by Timelord007 on Apr 24, 2017 7:35:06 GMT
I enjoy both stories The Three Doctors cracks me up because of the banter between the second & third Doctors, Patrick Troughton playful second Doctor winds up the more mature Third Doctor.
Being a Fourth Doctor fan i was disappointed by Tom's non-involvement in The Five Doctors but it was still a entertaining 20th Anniversary adventure which without it we'd never have had "no, not the mind probe".
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Post by mark687 on Apr 24, 2017 8:52:25 GMT
I Love Multi-Doctor stories!
The Two Doctors will always be in my Top 20 all time favourites. Serious writers probably think they amount to lazy fan fiction, but in fact Three Doctors is my second favourite Pertwee because Mr Troughton comes in and "schools" him.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 10:08:17 GMT
Didn't Russell T. Davies say that The Five Doctors was one of the best stories of the classic series?
Hmm. I don't really see any problems with The Three Doctors or its 1983 counterpart. They're both enjoyable outings and a really good way of introducing someone to the classic series who doesn't really know where to start. The latter being a Terrance Dicks script, it's a very good indicator of what audiences expect when going into a classic Who story. It even went back to the original quest format set up way back in 1963 with The Daleks, Marco Polo and The Keys of Marinus that eventually gave way to what we expect now.
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Post by omega on Apr 24, 2017 10:16:06 GMT
I'm not sure there really is a collectively negative fan reaction to those two stories. As far as I can tell, it looks like it's mostly a writer thing - I think I read somewhere that Russell T. Davies didn't like multi-Doctor stories and I don't think Moffat likes writing them either. And it's pretty understandable why - it must be a nightmare to write a story that's intricate enough to get multiple incarnations of the Doctor involved, but also new and original, while also meeting a time limit and also attempting to distinguish each incarnation of the Doctor from one another without resorting too much to just having them bicker endlessly. I don't imagine it's something many writers want to do very often. But, regardless, I don't think there's much negative reception to any multi-Doctor story amongst fans. People really love them from what I can tell. Particularly when the number of Doctors we now have makes trying to get all of them in one story so unwieldy. The strain was even showing in The Five Doctors, where they had four Doctors. Two is the magic number, as there's fewer inter-Doctor dynamics to get in there and there's room for a companion or too as well without compromising on plot and storyline allocation. Look at The Two Doctors or The Wrong Doctors for example.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 11:32:15 GMT
The Five Doctors was 25th of 241 in the last big DWM poll. The Three Doctors was 51st. That's a poll exclusively for fans and I think disproves the entire notion of the thread, honestly. They're clearly not that disliked at all but both in the upper tiers of fan faves.
Nick did indeed say he didn't like writing LATE...I'm not quite sure why he didn't let someone else have a go. For someone who has a stated dislike for multi-Doc stories he's written probably the two biggest BF have ever done in Light and Sirens Of Time.
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Post by omega on Apr 24, 2017 11:40:19 GMT
The Five Doctors was 25th of 241 in the last big DWM poll. The Three Doctors was 51st. That's a poll exclusively for fans and I think disproves the entire notion of the thread, honestly. They're clearly not that disliked at all but both in the upper tiers of fan faves. Nick did indeed say he didn't like writing LATE...I'm not quite sure why he didn't let someone else have a go. For someone who has a stated dislike for multi-Doc stories he's written probably the two biggest BF have ever done in Light and Sirens Of Time. Maybe he wanted to write the big anniversary story ("I wrote the Doctor Who 50th anniversary story" is an impressive boast), and there was an expectation to do a multi-Doctor story due to previous form. Tenth, twentieth and fiftieth on TV were multi-Doctor (thirtieth too if you count Dimensions in Time, fortieth didn't any new material). Nick has gotten a number of the big ones, like the first monthly Tom Baker story and the whole of the first War Doctor box set, and as executive producer he'd have the authority to give himself those stories. He did Dark Eyes, and has done most of the Fourth Doctor finales as well. Heck, he directs a lot of the Fourth Doctor stories and has openly spoken of his nostalgia for the period.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 12:27:52 GMT
Well, he certainly gets a larger proportion of the big event marquee releases than anyone else but without knowing what other writers would have done with those releases, I can't say it's greed or ego as I think you're saying. Yet I do think there's just got to have been a better 50th anniversary story with the sandbox of all of classic Who to play in. Even if it meant reducing some Doctors to smaller cameos to concentrate on one strand. Zagreus took us to far into complete continuity nonsense with a massively convoluted idea for the 40th but LATE took us to the other end of the spectrum where it was an event in need of a story. There must be a middle ground. Well, there is - Moffat found it. Still, if it sold well - and I'm sure it did - job done.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 16:56:53 GMT
The Three Doctors is brilliant, I loved it! I have never seen that much dislike/hate for it on my travels, although every Doctor Who story has somebody who dislikes it. But who couldn't like a Doctor Who story with Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee together, along with The Brigadier? Seriously!
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Post by sherlock on Apr 24, 2017 17:28:22 GMT
I always enjoy The Five Doctors. 90 minutes of simple enjoyment. It's one of the ones I've rewatched the most of my DVDs.
The Three Doctors is a bit meh as a story, but Pertwee and Troughton's interaction more than makes up for that,
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 24, 2017 17:33:34 GMT
I also reject the premise of this thread. I've never seen any general hatred or scorn directed at either serial. Multi-Doctor stories are so rare that I think most fans appreciate them for the gifts they are.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Apr 25, 2017 2:01:22 GMT
I think fans don't take them as seriously as many other stories: they're celebratory romps and are seen as such by many fans... rather like the Christmas episodes should be. Frankly, I love the 3, 5 and Day Of The Doctors immensely because they are great fun and each manages to push a little bit more story and mythology into the show (Although you could call the twentieth anniversary "The Five 'Of Rassilons'" and that would be just as accurate a title).
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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 25, 2017 8:06:32 GMT
I have heard some hate about the Three Doctors from "fans" (Hartnell in particular), but there were reasons for that and I've never had a problem with the story, or the way his lines were delivered. It's a great multi-doctor story. Same with the Five Doctors, it's obviously full of fan service and a bit over the top from JNT but I love it all the same ... and so do my kids Cheers Tony
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Post by agentten on Apr 25, 2017 18:33:05 GMT
As a young viewer, Five was my first Doctor and "The Five Doctors" was my first exposure to Doctors 1-4. I've always enjoyed "The Five Doctors" quite a bit. Even not knowing all those other Doctors and companions, I still found it immensely engrossing and entertaining, which is probably a good testament to the the success of the episode as simply a good story, even without the nostalgia of seeing the previous Doctors again. I do think I would have done it differently if I'd been writing it at the time. I wouldn't have recast One and would have simply not used Four if Baker wasn't going to participate, but that's more of a hindsight approach and also my personal taste. With the pieces available, the show absolutely produced a really fun special event.
I like "The Three Doctors" even more, largely because of how much time we get with Two and Three on screen. The chemistry is just magic and I have a lot of fun with it every time I see it.
I'm not aware of any real negative reaction to the specials. I'm not saying it's not out there, but I haven't come across it in my time as a fan.
For my money, "The Day of The Doctor" is the perfect multi Doctor special. It hits all the right marks and isn't too unwieldy or overly reliant on nostalgia. It has genuine emotion to it and is a meaningful event in the Doctor's ongoing story that takes threads that began with the return of the show and pays them off in very satisfying ways.
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Post by number13 on Apr 26, 2017 23:14:02 GMT
I love The Three Doctors and not only because it was the moment I discovered that my Doctor (Jon Pertwee) was not the only one. It was the show's 10th birthday year, they obviously wanted a 'birthday party' and they did one: jelly monsters, glittering sets and costumes, the Doctors getting on each others nerves but still working together and the Brigadier light years out of his depth but soldiering on gallantly with some great one-liners brilliantly delivered by Nicholas Courtney, with a straight face and militarily precise comic timing. The idea of three Doctors in one show worked superbly, Jon Pertwee and Patrick Troughton playing off each other expertly and William Hartnell appearing like a wise genie to steer them in the right direction. And the DVD commentary with Katy Manning and Nicholas Courtney is pure delight; when Katy Manning provides voiceovers for the orange jelly monsters the joy is complete.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 27, 2017 1:46:07 GMT
Well, he certainly gets a larger proportion of the big event marquee releases than anyone else but without knowing what other writers would have done with those releases, I can't say it's greed or ego as I think you're saying. Yet I do think there's just got to have been a better 50th anniversary story with the sandbox of all of classic Who to play in. Even if it meant reducing some Doctors to smaller cameos to concentrate on one strand. Zagreus took us to far into complete continuity nonsense with a massively convoluted idea for the 40th but LATE took us to the other end of the spectrum where it was an event in need of a story. There must be a middle ground. Well, there is - Moffat found it. Still, if it sold well - and I'm sure it did - job done. There was a middle ground, a box set version of TLATE going beyond two discs of story. I'd have bought it!
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Post by elkawho on Apr 27, 2017 3:44:11 GMT
I always enjoy The Five Doctors. 90 minutes of simple enjoyment. It's one of the ones I've rewatched the most of my DVDs. The Three Doctors is a bit meh as a story, but Pertwee and Troughton's interaction more than makes up for that, You echo my thoughts exactly. (Although I don't have The Five Doctors on DVD. Unfortunately.)
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Post by number13 on Apr 27, 2017 22:52:55 GMT
I always enjoy The Five Doctors. 90 minutes of simple enjoyment. It's one of the ones I've rewatched the most of my DVDs. The Five Doctors is my favourite post-Tom Baker story and ticks so many fan boxes that the night I first saw it in 1983 was one to remember for this fan since 1971. To imagine the full impact, you have to remember how pitiful our Who resources were back then, ten years pre-(dial-up)Internet and five years before the first VHS release. I had the Target books and a few audio tapes and I'd seen a tiny handful of the stories repeated (once), but almost nothing from pre-1971. So just imagine my excitement when... ... Wow! That's Susan, and Liz Shaw and a Yeti - in colour - and that must be a bit of Shada!! and there's MY Doctor again and the Brig. and and ...... Unforgettable! Terrance Dicks not only fitted in all these celebratory elements and more but wrote what I still think is an excellent 'quest' story with Time Lord politics and all those items (of Rassilon) thrown in. And this is without doubt the story I've seen more than any other, thanks to the home electronics revolution. It was the first programme we taped on our brand new VCR (of Rassilon) and so for the first time ever I could watch 'Doctor Who' on demand. 'Bigger on the inside' was nothing compared with that technological achievement!
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Apr 28, 2017 13:43:46 GMT
I didn't think there even were any negative reactions towards those serials. I've always thought the general consensus was that they are a lot of fun.
Personally, they are two of my favourite classic series serials. Multi-Doctor interactions never fail to make me laugh.
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