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Post by Digi on Dec 21, 2017 13:15:25 GMT
Okay, Master in Part 3 then. The description of Part 4 is what really gets my imagination running though. Romana desperate/fed up with Livia and the War Council, looking for a solution? Will she look outside Gallifrey? Or perhaps this is how we introduce Rassilon to the series? (Well, re-introduce, technically.) And I see the cover art now specifically denotes "Volume One" - I suppose this means there'll be one or more G:TW sets after this one. This pleases me
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Post by constonks on Dec 21, 2017 13:31:34 GMT
Romana is still coordinator during the Time War, eh? I'm very confused by the timeline now.
I assumed that Livia was president during Dark Eyes and Doom Coalition, but there are several other coordinators during that time including Narvin returning to his post.
And those are both distinctly set way before the Time War.
Even if Gallifrey VI took place, say, between Dark Eyes 2 & 3, with Enemy Lines between DE4 & Doomco - although I still don't think that fits the ravaged Gallifrey of Series 6 - there's still a different coordinator altogether in The Eleven.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 21, 2017 14:02:38 GMT
This sounds really cool. I hope the War Master is in episode four; it would be a shame if he's only in one episode.
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Post by Digi on Dec 21, 2017 14:22:24 GMT
Romana is still coordinator during the Time War, eh? I'm very confused by the timeline now. I assumed that Livia was president during Dark Eyes and Doom Coalition, but there are several other coordinators during that time including Narvin returning to his post. And those are both distinctly set way before the Time War. Even if Gallifrey VI took place, say, between Dark Eyes 2 & 3, with Enemy Lines between DE4 & Doomco - although I still don't think that fits the ravaged Gallifrey of Series 6 - there's still a different coordinator altogether in The Eleven. I will probably need to revise once G:TW comes out, but at present my read of chronology has been: Neverland/Zagreus Gallifrey Series 1 Scherzo/Creed/Natural History/Twilight Kingdom Gallifrey Series 2-4 Remainder of Eight/Charley(/C'rizz) run (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Series 5-6 (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Intervention Earth & Enemy Lines (unclear length of time passes) Eighth Doctor Adventures (Eight/Lucie/Tamsin) Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Couple things about that though: I'm a bit shaky on when IE/EL happens, but it seems that it should be pre-Dark Eyes, since a different (male) President appears in DE1, and since we know from Enemy Lines that Romana's successor is Livia. Unless Romana served non-consecutive terms as President, or if that unnamed DE1 President was Livia regenerated as a man. That extra passage of time between G6 and the EDAs would also give Gallifrey enough recovery time to be functional enough to stick Lucie with the Doctor the way they did. At the moment, the Time War feels a bit WW2-ish to me in that there seem to have been a few early heavy blows, like the end of Gallifrey 6 and the Time Controller stuff in the EDAs & Dark Eyes, but then settling into a simmer before escalating into open/confrontational war (like how Poland was conquered in September, but even though everyone was officially at war and arming and preparing like crazy, fighting for the rest of Europe didn't really kick off until the following spring).
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,785
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 21, 2017 14:29:47 GMT
Romana is still coordinator during the Time War, eh? I'm very confused by the timeline now. I assumed that Livia was president during Dark Eyes and Doom Coalition, but there are several other coordinators during that time including Narvin returning to his post. And those are both distinctly set way before the Time War. Even if Gallifrey VI took place, say, between Dark Eyes 2 & 3, with Enemy Lines between DE4 & Doomco - although I still don't think that fits the ravaged Gallifrey of Series 6 - there's still a different coordinator altogether in The Eleven. I think there was an unnamaed male president in Dark Eyes 1 - I suppose that doesn't necessarily prove anything as it could have been a male incarnation of Livia between the 2 female ones we are meeting in Gallifey 8 and Gallifrey 9
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,785
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 21, 2017 14:40:24 GMT
Romana is still coordinator during the Time War, eh? I'm very confused by the timeline now. I assumed that Livia was president during Dark Eyes and Doom Coalition, but there are several other coordinators during that time including Narvin returning to his post. And those are both distinctly set way before the Time War. Even if Gallifrey VI took place, say, between Dark Eyes 2 & 3, with Enemy Lines between DE4 & Doomco - although I still don't think that fits the ravaged Gallifrey of Series 6 - there's still a different coordinator altogether in The Eleven. I will probably need to revise once G:TW comes out, but at present my read of chronology has been: Neverland/Zagreus Gallifrey Series 1 Scherzo/Creed/Natural History/Twilight Kingdom Gallifrey Series 2-4 Remainder of Eight/Charley(/C'rizz) run (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Series 5-6 (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Intervention Earth & Enemy Lines (unclear length of time passes) Eighth Doctor Adventures (Eight/Lucie/Tamsin) Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Couple things about that though: I'm a bit shaky on when IE/EL happens, but it seems that it should be pre-Dark Eyes, since a different (male) President appears in DE1, and since we know from Enemy Lines that Romana's successor is Livia. Unless Romana served non-consecutive terms as President, or if that unnamed DE1 President was Livia regenerated as a man. That extra passage of time between G6 and the EDAs would also give Gallifrey enough recovery time to be functional enough to stick Lucie with the Doctor the way they did. At the moment, the Time War feels a bit WW2-ish to me in that there seem to have been a few early heavy blows, like the end of Gallifrey 6 and the Time Controller stuff in the EDAs & Dark Eyes, but then settling into a simmer before escalating into open/confrontational war (like how Poland was conquered in September, but even though everyone was officially at war and arming and preparing like crazy, fighting for the rest of Europe didn't really kick off until the following spring). Didn't read this before my last post, but I agree with pretty much everything you say re Gallifrey timeline. I think two non-consecutive terms for Romana works best. A while since I listened to it but I thought Gallifrey 6 wasn't 100% explicit that Romana resumed the Presidency at the end, but I could be wrong in that. If this was the case it certainly opens up a gap for DE and DC. I prefer to assume Romana and Leela went off travelling in a TARDIS at some point when Romana was not President and this was when the 8DAs, DE and DC took place (or else you have the question of where were they during these events). It seems as if BF's post Zagreus Gallifrey/Time War stories are following 2 parallel tracks. One with Romana, Leela, Ace and the War Master and the other with Eight, War and Ollistra. Other than Narvin's appearance in DE3 the two tracks seems to run in parallel and never cross until the very end of the War Dr series when he encounters Leela.
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Post by Whovitt on Dec 21, 2017 14:44:54 GMT
Romana is still coordinator during the Time War, eh? I'm very confused by the timeline now. I assumed that Livia was president during Dark Eyes and Doom Coalition, but there are several other coordinators during that time including Narvin returning to his post. And those are both distinctly set way before the Time War. Even if Gallifrey VI took place, say, between Dark Eyes 2 & 3, with Enemy Lines between DE4 & Doomco - although I still don't think that fits the ravaged Gallifrey of Series 6 - there's still a different coordinator altogether in The Eleven. I will probably need to revise once G:TW comes out, but at present my read of chronology has been: Neverland/Zagreus Gallifrey Series 1 Scherzo/Creed/Natural History/Twilight Kingdom Gallifrey Series 2-4 Remainder of Eight/Charley(/C'rizz) run (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Series 5-6 (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Intervention Earth & Enemy Lines (unclear length of time passes) Eighth Doctor Adventures (Eight/Lucie/Tamsin) Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Couple things about that though: I'm a bit shaky on when IE/EL happens, but it seems that it should be pre-Dark Eyes, since a different (male) President appears in DE1, and since we know from Enemy Lines that Romana's successor is Livia. Unless Romana served non-consecutive terms as President, or if that unnamed DE1 President was Livia regenerated as a man. That extra passage of time between G6 and the EDAs would also give Gallifrey enough recovery time to be functional enough to stick Lucie with the Doctor the way they did. At the moment, the Time War feels a bit WW2-ish to me in that there seem to have been a few early heavy blows, like the end of Gallifrey 6 and the Time Controller stuff in the EDAs & Dark Eyes, but then settling into a simmer before escalating into open/confrontational war (like how Poland was conquered in September, but even though everyone was officially at war and arming and preparing like crazy, fighting for the rest of Europe didn't really kick off until the following spring). Most of that is very good! However, I don't think all works Livia is credited as being in The Time War: Series 1, so it would be set probably in the not too distant future of Enemy Lines (I could, of course, be completely wrong). This being the case, the Time War would have (most likely) had to have started before your placings of EDAs onward... I'm listening to Enemy Lines right now so I don't know how it ends, but I'd be surprised if there was that big a gap between them. Also, does anyone know whether Narvin is still the head of the CIA in Dark Eyes 3? If he mentions his position, that would help screw down the timeline
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Post by constonks on Dec 21, 2017 14:45:42 GMT
I will probably need to revise once G:TW comes out, but at present my read of chronology has been: Neverland/Zagreus Gallifrey Series 1 Scherzo/Creed/Natural History/Twilight Kingdom Gallifrey Series 2-4 Remainder of Eight/Charley(/C'rizz) run (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Series 5-6 (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Intervention Earth & Enemy Lines (unclear length of time passes) Eighth Doctor Adventures (Eight/Lucie/Tamsin) Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Couple things about that though: I'm a bit shaky on when IE/EL happens, but it seems that it should be pre-Dark Eyes, since a different (male) President appears in DE1, and since we know from Enemy Lines that Romana's successor is Livia. Unless Romana served non-consecutive terms as President, or if that unnamed DE1 President was Livia regenerated as a man. That's the order I thought before this announcement - just assumed that in Dark Eyes, Tim Treloar was playing a Livia after Celia Imrie. That's still possible (although it does mean that the Doom Coalition president survived), it's just that timeline now means that the Coordinator position went from Narvin to Romana to Bulek to Straxus to Narvin to Farina to Romana. EDIT Whovitt - Narvin is Coordinator-In-Extremis in Dark Eyes 3, replacing Coordinator Straxus. However, another coordinator (Farina) replaces him in Doom Coalition.
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Post by Digi on Dec 21, 2017 14:52:19 GMT
I will probably need to revise once G:TW comes out, but at present my read of chronology has been: Neverland/Zagreus Gallifrey Series 1 Scherzo/Creed/Natural History/Twilight Kingdom Gallifrey Series 2-4 Remainder of Eight/Charley(/C'rizz) run (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Series 5-6 (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Intervention Earth & Enemy Lines (unclear length of time passes) Eighth Doctor Adventures (Eight/Lucie/Tamsin) Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Couple things about that though: I'm a bit shaky on when IE/EL happens, but it seems that it should be pre-Dark Eyes, since a different (male) President appears in DE1, and since we know from Enemy Lines that Romana's successor is Livia. Unless Romana served non-consecutive terms as President, or if that unnamed DE1 President was Livia regenerated as a man. That extra passage of time between G6 and the EDAs would also give Gallifrey enough recovery time to be functional enough to stick Lucie with the Doctor the way they did. At the moment, the Time War feels a bit WW2-ish to me in that there seem to have been a few early heavy blows, like the end of Gallifrey 6 and the Time Controller stuff in the EDAs & Dark Eyes, but then settling into a simmer before escalating into open/confrontational war (like how Poland was conquered in September, but even though everyone was officially at war and arming and preparing like crazy, fighting for the rest of Europe didn't really kick off until the following spring). Most of that is very good! However, I don't think all works Livia is credited as being in The Time War: Series 1, so it would be set probably in the not too distant future of Enemy Lines (I could, of course, be completely wrong). This being the case, the Time War would have (most likely) had to have started before your placings of EDAs onward... I'm listening to Enemy Lines right now so I don't know how it ends, but I'd be surprised if there was that big a gap between them. Also, does anyone know whether Narvin is still the head of the CIA in Dark Eyes 3? If he mentions his position, that would help screw down the timeline Works just fine if Livia does not regenerate into a man I admit, I really do not remember Livia being in Time War 1. Sounds like a good excuse for a re-listen!
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Post by Whovitt on Dec 21, 2017 14:52:40 GMT
I will probably need to revise once G:TW comes out, but at present my read of chronology has been: Neverland/Zagreus Gallifrey Series 1 Scherzo/Creed/Natural History/Twilight Kingdom Gallifrey Series 2-4 Remainder of Eight/Charley(/C'rizz) run (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Series 5-6 (unclear length of time passes) Gallifrey Intervention Earth & Enemy Lines (unclear length of time passes) Eighth Doctor Adventures (Eight/Lucie/Tamsin) Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Couple things about that though: I'm a bit shaky on when IE/EL happens, but it seems that it should be pre-Dark Eyes, since a different (male) President appears in DE1, and since we know from Enemy Lines that Romana's successor is Livia. Unless Romana served non-consecutive terms as President, or if that unnamed DE1 President was Livia regenerated as a man. That's the order I thought before this announcement - just assumed that in Dark Eyes, Tim Treloar was playing a Livia after Celia Imrie. That's still possible (although it does mean that the Doom Coalition president survived), it's just that timeline now means that the Coordinator position went from Narvin to Romana to Bulek to Straxus to Narvin to Farina to Romana. EDIT Whovitt - Narvin is Coordinator-In-Extremis in Dark Eyes 3, replacing Coordinator Straxus. However, another coordinator (Farina) replaces him in Doom Coalition. I will admit that I've not really thought through the Gallifrey timeline before, so I may be a bit of an amateur calling shots in the dark This is all feeling a bit more complicated than I'd anticipated though, so I might leave it more to the experts
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Post by Whovitt on Dec 21, 2017 14:53:42 GMT
Most of that is very good! However, I don't think all works Livia is credited as being in The Time War: Series 1, so it would be set probably in the not too distant future of Enemy Lines (I could, of course, be completely wrong). This being the case, the Time War would have (most likely) had to have started before your placings of EDAs onward... I'm listening to Enemy Lines right now so I don't know how it ends, but I'd be surprised if there was that big a gap between them. Also, does anyone know whether Narvin is still the head of the CIA in Dark Eyes 3? If he mentions his position, that would help screw down the timeline Works just fine if Livia does not regenerate into a man I admit, I really do not remember Livia being in Time War 1. Sounds like a good excuse for a re-listen! Wrong Time War release She's in the upcoming Gallifrey one, not the 8th Doctor or War Doctor ones
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Post by Digi on Dec 21, 2017 14:57:26 GMT
Works just fine if Livia does not regenerate into a man I admit, I really do not remember Livia being in Time War 1. Sounds like a good excuse for a re-listen! Wrong Time War release She's in the upcoming Gallifrey one, not the 8th Doctor or War Doctor ones Oof, the perils of multiple similarly-named ranges! Right, her presence in G:TW1 was why my initial response a few posts up from here noted that I might need to revisit things once this set comes out
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 20:22:37 GMT
Didn't a president die during late Doom Coalition (TARDIS blowing up?)
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 21, 2017 22:03:20 GMT
As for coordinators etc, how do we know how many different iterations of people and organisations are fighting in a war that can reweave time and reality?
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,785
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 22, 2017 23:25:48 GMT
From reading the synopses and listening to the trailer, it seems as if we are getting the beginning, i.e. actual outbreak of the Time War
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,785
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 22, 2017 23:27:53 GMT
Unless Romana served non-consecutive terms as President, Livia also could have served two non-consecutive terms as President
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 23, 2017 11:51:39 GMT
Quite a striking cover. Have pre-ordered it. I’m hoping it’s quite standalone, or at least a good jumping on point for new listeners.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 18, 2018 18:41:10 GMT
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Post by omega on Feb 19, 2018 10:02:33 GMT
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Post by omega on Feb 20, 2018 6:40:31 GMT
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