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Post by xlozdob on Jun 17, 2017 11:21:46 GMT
Hi! I would like some help sequencing the correct order of the Gallifrey and 8th Doctor audios. I have seen some suggestions, but I haven't yet listened to all of them, so, as I say, help would be much appreciated.
I know Shada should be the first. Then the first batch of 8th Doctor MRs up til Zagreus (including The Light at the End). After that, the Doctor ends up in the DU and Second Sight from The Worlds of Doctor Who and the first series of Gallifrey happen concurrently with the Doctor, Charley and C'rizz's adventures in the DU. But what would be the order after that?
Thank you!
(I don't know if this thread should be here, so please move it to wherever it belongs. I don't know either if there is already a thread like this, since the one I remember was in the other forum.)
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Post by xlozdob on Jun 17, 2017 11:27:10 GMT
So, this is what I have for now:
1. Shada 2. Storm Warning (8MR) 3. The Sword of Orion (8MR) 4. The Stones of Venice (8MR) 5. Minuet in Hell (8MR) 6. The Light at the End 7. Invaders from Mars (8MR) 8. The Chimes of Midnight (8MR) 9. Living Legend 10. Seasons of Fear (8MR) 11. Embrace the Darkness (8MR) 12. The Time of the Daleks (8MR) 13. Neverland (8MR) 14. Zagreus (8MR) 15. Weapon of Choice (G1) 16. Square One (G1) 17. The Inquiry (G1) 18. A Blind Eye (G1) 19. Scherzo (8MR) 20. The Creed of the Kromon (8MR) 21. The Natural History of Fear (8MR) 22. The Twilight Kingdom (8MR)
Edited to remove Second Sight.
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Post by Digi on Jun 17, 2017 23:23:21 GMT
Ah, I was just thinking about posting the same thread.
I know we've had this conversation a number of times in the past (and I've even been a participant!), but I can't seem to find where I had it recorded.
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Post by Digi on Jun 17, 2017 23:25:11 GMT
So, this is what I have for now: You've missed The Company of Friends and the Mary Shelley trilogy, both of which are before he meets Charley. Where they sit relative to each other and relative to Shada is a bit open to interpretation, though.
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Post by constonks on Jun 18, 2017 1:31:13 GMT
I would argue that Second Sight happens between Gallifrey series 6 & 8, because Leela is being sent on missions by Romana. Their relationship in Gallifrey season 1 doesn't really imply that Leela is already an agent of the Time Lords, being sent to all corners of the cosmos.
(TARDIS Wiki puts Jago & Litefoot between Gallifrey series 1 and 2, which I guess also works, but it seems unnecessary to split up the two series when they flow so naturally into each other.)
As for where Shada fits with Mary Shelley: He mentions her in Shada. So. After.
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Post by xlozdob on Jun 18, 2017 11:36:26 GMT
So, this is what I have for now: You've missed The Company of Friends and the Mary Shelley trilogy, both of which are before he meets Charley. Where they sit relative to each other and relative to Shada is a bit open to interpretation, though. As constonks has said, I didn't put any of the Company of Friends/Mary Shelley stories in there as they are set before Shada (except for, maybe, Fitz's Story), which is the point where 8th's relationship with Romana and, by extension, Gallifrey really starts (notice how I haven't included stories like The Apocalypse Element or The Deadly Assassin either). What I really struggle with is the placement of Gallifrey series 2-8 and the EDAs, DE and DC.
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Post by xlozdob on Jun 18, 2017 11:39:26 GMT
I would argue that Second Sight happens between Gallifrey series 6 & 8, because Leela is being sent on missions by Romana. Their relationship in Gallifrey season 1 doesn't really imply that Leela is already an agent of the Time Lords, being sent to all corners of the cosmos. (TARDIS Wiki puts Jago & Litefoot between Gallifrey series 1 and 2, which I guess also works, but it seems unnecessary to split up the two series when they flow so naturally into each other.) As for where Shada fits with Mary Shelley: He mentions her in Shada. So. After. Yes, good point about Second Sight. I haven't listened to it myself, so I was going by the timeline in Bradley's Basement.
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Post by constonks on Jun 18, 2017 12:16:37 GMT
You've missed The Company of Friends and the Mary Shelley trilogy, both of which are before he meets Charley. Where they sit relative to each other and relative to Shada is a bit open to interpretation, though. As constonks has said, I didn't put any of the Company of Friends/Mary Shelley stories in there as they are set before Shada (except for, maybe, Fitz's Story), which is the point where 8th's relationship with Romana and, by extension, Gallifrey really starts (notice how I haven't included stories like The Apocalypse Element or The Deadly Assassin either). What I really struggle with is the placement of Gallifrey series 2-8 and the EDAs, DE and DC. My personal timeline for Gallifrey circa McGann is: The Wormwood comics BF Eighth Doctor MR Gallifrey 1-6 Second Sight, Jago and Litefoot (Averted timeline: Romana's regeneration, Gallifrey 7 & BBC EDA War arc) Gallifrey 8 BBC EDAs Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Time War There are some obvious gaps there, based on how Gallifrey 8 ends and a throwaway line in War Doctor 4: Livia is either replaced by or regenerates into Tim Treloar in time for Dark Eyes.
Romana isn't the CIA director in the EDAs, either, but Narvin is still around to come back as Coordinator in Extremis when everything falls apart in Dark Eyes 3.
And they're all gone by the time Leela returns to Gallifrey, according to the War Doctor.
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Post by kennysmith on Jun 18, 2017 22:55:59 GMT
So, this is what I have for now: 1. Shada 2. Storm Warning (8MR) 3. The Sword of Orion (8MR) 4. The Stones of Venice (8MR) 5. Minuet in Hell (8MR) 6. The Light at the End 7. Invaders from Mars (8MR) 8. The Chimes of Midnight (8MR) 9. Living Legend 10. Seasons of Fear (8MR) 11. Embrace the Darkness (8MR) 12. The Time of the Daleks (8MR) 13. Neverland (8MR) 14. Zagreus (8MR) 15. Weapon of Choice (G1) 16. Square One (G1) 17. The Inquiry (G1) 18. A Blind Eye (G1) 19. Scherzo (8MR) 20. The Creed of the Kromon (8MR) 21. The Natural History of Fear (8MR) 22. The Twilight Kingdom (8MR) Edited to remove Second Sight. I've got Enemy Aliens before Invaders from Mars.
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Post by Digi on Jun 19, 2017 3:46:07 GMT
Alright, I found where I had it written down. What I've got (or rather, what I had down last time we talked about this) :
----
TV/FILM "Doctor Who"
MR123 "The Company of Friends" MR153 "The Silver Turk" MR154 "The Witch from the Well" MR155 "Army of Death"
BR2 "Shada"
MR16 "Storm Warning" MR17 "Sword of Orion" MR18 "The Stones of Venice" MR19 "Minuet in Hell" MR28 "Invaders from Mars" MR29 "The Chimes of Midnight" DWM "Living Legend" "The Light at the End" MR30 "Seasons of Fear" DOTD "Enemy Aliens" MR31 "Embrace the Darkness" CC4.12 "Solitaire" MR32 "The Time of the Daleks" MR33 "Neverland" MR50 "Zagreus"
Gallifrey: Series 1
MR52 "Scherzo" MR53 "The Creed of the Kromon" MR54 "The Natural History of Fear" MR55 "The Twilight Kingdom"
Gallifrey: Series 2 Gallifrey: Series 3 Gallifrey: Series 4
MR61 "Faith Stealer" MR62 "The Last" MR63 "Caedroia" MR64 "The Next Life" MR72 "Terror Firma" MR75 "Scaredy Cat" MR77 "Other Lives" MR80 "Time Works" MR83 "Something Inside" MR88 "Memory Lane" MR101 "Absolution" MR103 "The Girl Who Never Was"
Gallifrey: Series 5 Gallifrey: Series 6 Gallifrey: Intervention Earth (actually much later but dependent here bc of Enemy Lines) Gallifrey: Enemy Lines
Eighth Doctor Adventures: Series 1 Eighth Doctor Adventures: Series 2 Eighth Doctor Adventures: Series 3 Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.1 "Death in Blackpool" BR8 "An Earthly Child" Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.2 - 4.7 BR9 "The Four Doctors" Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.8 - 4.10
Dark Eyes: Series 1-4
Doom Coalition: Series 1-4
(insert upcoming releases here)
TV "The Night of the Doctor"
---
And since then, we've also had: - confirmation of a post-Doom Coalition storyline that we don't yet have the details on (but it's not a huge leap to assume it comes right after DC) - two released stories set during the Time War ("The Rulers of the Universe" and "The Sontaran Ordeal") whose exact placement is not yet clear - confirmation of four Time War boxsets (presumably set near the end of Eight's life) - confirmation of the "Gallifrey: Time War" boxset, whose placement we don't yet know
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Post by xlozdob on Jun 19, 2017 20:59:03 GMT
So, this is what I have for now: 1. Shada 2. Storm Warning (8MR) 3. The Sword of Orion (8MR) 4. The Stones of Venice (8MR) 5. Minuet in Hell (8MR) 6. The Light at the End 7. Invaders from Mars (8MR) 8. The Chimes of Midnight (8MR) 9. Living Legend 10. Seasons of Fear (8MR) 11. Embrace the Darkness (8MR) 12. The Time of the Daleks (8MR) 13. Neverland (8MR) 14. Zagreus (8MR) 15. Weapon of Choice (G1) 16. Square One (G1) 17. The Inquiry (G1) 18. A Blind Eye (G1) 19. Scherzo (8MR) 20. The Creed of the Kromon (8MR) 21. The Natural History of Fear (8MR) 22. The Twilight Kingdom (8MR) Edited to remove Second Sight. I've got Enemy Aliens before Invaders from Mars. Yes, of course. I just didn't take into account stories that aren't full cast, so things like Destiny of the Doctor or Short Trips aren't in my list
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Post by xlozdob on Jun 19, 2017 21:07:49 GMT
Alright, I found where I had it written down. What I've got (or rather, what I had down last time we talked about this) : ---- TV/FILM "Doctor Who" MR123 "The Company of Friends" MR153 "The Silver Turk" MR154 "The Witch from the Well" MR155 "Army of Death" BR2 "Shada" MR16 "Storm Warning" MR17 "Sword of Orion" MR18 "The Stones of Venice" MR19 "Minuet in Hell" MR28 "Invaders from Mars" MR29 "The Chimes of Midnight" DWM "Living Legend" "The Light at the End" MR30 "Seasons of Fear" DOTD "Enemy Aliens" MR31 "Embrace the Darkness" CC4.12 "Solitaire" MR32 "The Time of the Daleks" MR33 "Neverland" MR50 "Zagreus" Gallifrey: Series 1 MR52 "Scherzo" MR53 "The Creed of the Kromon" MR54 "The Natural History of Fear" MR55 "The Twilight Kingdom" Gallifrey: Series 2 Gallifrey: Series 3 Gallifrey: Series 4 MR61 "Faith Stealer" MR62 "The Last" MR63 "Caedroia" MR64 "The Next Life" MR72 "Terror Firma" MR75 "Scaredy Cat" MR77 "Other Lives" MR80 "Time Works" MR83 "Something Inside" MR88 "Memory Lane" MR101 "Absolution" MR103 "The Girl Who Never Was" Gallifrey: Series 5 Gallifrey: Series 6 Gallifrey: Intervention Earth (actually much later but dependent here bc of Enemy Lines) Gallifrey: Enemy Lines Eighth Doctor Adventures: Series 1 Eighth Doctor Adventures: Series 2 Eighth Doctor Adventures: Series 3 Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.1 "Death in Blackpool" BR8 "An Earthly Child" Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.2 - 4.7 BR9 "The Four Doctors" Eighth Doctor Adventures 4.8 - 4.10 Dark Eyes: Series 1-4 Doom Coalition: Series 1-4 (insert upcoming releases here)TV "The Night of the Doctor" --- And since then, we've also had: - confirmation of a post-Doom Coalition storyline that we don't yet have the details on (but it's not a huge leap to assume it comes right after DC) - two released stories set during the Time War ("The Rulers of the Universe" and "The Sontaran Ordeal") whose exact placement is not yet clear - confirmation of four Time War boxsets (presumably set near the end of Eight's life) - confirmation of the "Gallifrey: Time War" boxset, whose placement we don't yet know Thank you! I think that is pretty much what I had managed to gather from the old forum, but I was really confused because others place Gallifrey S5-6 after Dark Eyes 1, because in DE1 Romana is not Lady President but in DE2 Narvin is again coordinator of the CIA after Straxus is killed, so at some point between DE1 and 2, they have returned to the original Gallifrey. So I guess a better way to ask the question would be where in the Gallifrey timeline do the 8th Doctor visits happen? Or even, what is the exact timeline of events on Gallifrey.
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Post by Bazoolium on Jun 19, 2017 23:37:00 GMT
It did annoy me that during DC 4 they were very vauge about who was President.
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Post by Digi on Feb 24, 2018 1:21:00 GMT
So--thoughts on re-jigging this in light of Gallifrey: Time War?
I know somebody (IIRC it was Scott Handcock) said they see GTW as being very soon before the Eighth Doctor: Time War series begins, which really doesn't jibe well with IE/EL sitting way back pre-Lucie.
I'm open to suggestions!
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,785
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Post by lidar2 on Feb 24, 2018 11:46:48 GMT
So--thoughts on re-jigging this in light of Gallifrey: Time War? I know somebody (IIRC it was Scott Handcock) said they see GTW as being very soon before the Eighth Doctor: Time War series begins, which really doesn't jibe well with IE/EL sitting way back pre-Lucie. I'm open to suggestions! Possibly Romana and Leela took a sabbatical from Gallifrey after Gallifrey 6, Dark Eyes and Doom Coalition take place here, and then Romana returns and resumes the Presidency leading into Gallifrey 7 & 8.
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Post by constonks on Feb 25, 2018 0:34:37 GMT
So--thoughts on re-jigging this in light of Gallifrey: Time War? I know somebody (IIRC it was Scott Handcock) said they see GTW as being very soon before the Eighth Doctor: Time War series begins, which really doesn't jibe well with IE/EL sitting way back pre-Lucie. I'm open to suggestions! Possibly Romana and Leela took a sabbatical from Gallifrey after Gallifrey 6, Dark Eyes and Doom Coalition take place here, and then Romana returns and resumes the Presidency leading into Gallifrey 7 & 8. This is what I'm assuming. - We don't know who the president is during the EDAs but we know that Bulek is the Coordinator of the CIA, not Narvin. Straxus replaced Bulek, followed by Farina by the time of Doom Coalition (with a brief reappearance by Narvin as "Coordinator in Extremis"). - We don't know the name of the president in Dark Eyes but he's played by Tim Treloar. In Doom Coalition, an unknown President appears to die. I propose the following: At some point, Narvin was replaced by Bulek. Who knows why? Maybe he stepped down or left Gallifrey for some secret reason. Bulek then regenerated and ran for President against Romana - she lost. Straxus became coordinator as a result, followed by Farina. After the events of Doom Coalition, Gallifrey looked to Romana and Narvin to rebuild stability.
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Post by Digi on Mar 4, 2018 18:18:09 GMT
So another thought: we should bump Museum Peace up to either just before, or just after (my inclination) Celestial Intervention.
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iourn
New Member
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Post by iourn on Sept 26, 2018 14:17:06 GMT
I just finished listening to Doom Coalition 4 this morning, and I popped on here to see if anyone knew who the President of Gallifrey was in that story. It did seem to be left intentionally vague - probably so the president's identity can change to meet the needs of any future story.
I thought that it might have been meant to be Romana given a few other throwaway lines in the story, but I'm not sure how well that fits into the overall timeline.
I haven't listened to Ravenous or the Eighth Doctor Time War stories yet, so maybe they make things a little clearer. To be honest the status quo of Gallifrey in relation to the Doctors has been confusing me since Sirens of Time. Doesn't Narvin turn up in the Lucie Miller stories?
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Post by Digi on Sept 26, 2018 20:40:23 GMT
Not during the Lucie Miller era no, but he shows up in Dark Eyes 3 (when the Doctor is travelling with Liv and kind of with Molly).
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iourn
New Member
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Post by iourn on Sept 27, 2018 11:02:36 GMT
Not during the Lucie Miller era no, but he shows up in Dark Eyes 3 (when the Doctor is travelling with Liv and kind of with Molly). Oh yes, of course. That's what I was thinking of.
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